Brazil Needs Help of the Rich to Stop Amazon’s Destruction

    Brazil's Amazon River

    Brazil's Amazon River The international conservation organization World Wide Fund for Nature (WWF) is warning that a vicious cycle of climate change and deforestation could wipe out or severely damage nearly 60% of the Amazon forest, most of it in Brazil, by 2030.

    The WWF report, The Amazon's Vicious Cycles: Drought and Fire in the Greenhouse, reveals the dramatic consequences for the local and global climate as well as the impacts on people's livelihoods in South America and Brazil, particularly.

    From now to 2030, deforestation in the Amazon could release 55.5 to 96.9 billion tons of CO². At the upper end this is more than two years of global greenhouse gas emission. In addition, the destruction of the Amazon would also do away with one of the key stabilizers of the global climate system.

    "The importance of the Amazon forest for the globe's climate cannot be underplayed," says Dan Nepstad, Senior Scientist at the Woods Hole Research Center and author of the report.

    "It's not only essential for cooling the world's temperature but also such a large source of freshwater that it may be enough to influence some of the great ocean currents, and on top of that it's a massive store of carbon."

    Current trends in agriculture and livestock expansion, fire, drought and logging could clear or severely damage 55% of the Amazon rainforest by 2030. If, as anticipated by scientists, rainfall declines 10% in the future, then an additional 4% of the forests will be damaged by drought.

    Global warming is in fact likely to reduce rainfall in the Amazon by more than 20%, especially in the eastern Amazon, and local temperatures will increase by more than 2° C, and perhaps by as much as 8° C, during the second half of the century.

    With further destruction of the Amazon forests, less rainfall in India and Central America is anticipated, as would rainfall during the growing season in the grain belts of the US and Brazil.

    Strategies to halt deforestation in the Amazon include minimizing the negative impacts from cattle ranching and infrastructure projects to rapidly expanding the existing network of protected areas.

    "We can still stop the destruction of the Amazon, but we need the support of the rich countries," says Karen Suassuna, a climate change analyst at WWF-Brazil. "Our success in protecting the Amazon depends on how fast rich countries reduce their climate damaging emissions to slow down global warming."

    Climate change is initiating and speeding up the vicious circle. Today, carbon from forest conversion to cattle pastures and agriculture in the Brazilian Amazon is seeping into the atmosphere at a rate of 0.2 to 0.3 billion tons per year. This number can double when severe drought increases forest fires. Emissions from all Amazon countries are double the figures for Brazil.

    "The Kyoto Plus climate agreement must include measures to reduce emissions from forests," says Hans Verolme, Director of WWF's Global Climate Change Program.

    "A failure to protect the Amazon forest will not only be a disaster for millions of people who live in the Amazon region, but also for the stability of the world's climate."

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    • Show Comments (89)

    • João da Silva

      A Brazilian
      Continued:

      [quote]You won’t hear about this from Brazilian academics though, because most of them are leftist. But I would recommend you to look for literature about “Globalism” and world government, which is what the UN stands for. NGOs are just tools for interventionism and counts with some fools fanaticism in order to work.
      [/quote]

      A Brazilian, I have met several academics who are apolitical and I deal with one of them everyday . They are voiceless,but you may be surprised to hear that they share our opinion about this issue. All of them have gone to U.S. Canada and Europe and they don’t go too overboard about Europe !

      [quote]I don’t understand. Are you proposing the elimination of 90 million people in order for the population to retreat back to 100 million? This is complete nonsense, European countries are much smaller than Brazil and they have close to 100 million, with our territory and resources we could easily have 5 times that. The population in Brazil is concentrated in the coast and that’s bad, if we were spread evenly across the country then it would look like there’s room for a lot more.[/quote]

      No “A Brazilian, I am not proposing that we eliminate 90 Millions. It was Ricardo Amaral who suggested that the problem of U.S and Brazil is the over population. He did publish a very interesting article in 4 parts “Why China should invest 200 Billion dollars in Brazil”.Since you are a fast reader in English, I suggest you read it and the comments of many bloggers including mine. You would understand. I disgree with his theory of over population in both U.S. and Brasil. as you know, we two, along with Canada, Russia and Africa have huge land masses. My theory is that it is not the question of over population, but the mismanagement of our resources. Of course, I respect his view point as I respect yours.

      Also I would like you to pay attention to the title of the article in this thread and my first comment.My comment might sound sarcastic,but if you stop to think, you would agree that we don’t need outside help to stop AmazonÀ‚´s destruction, but we need to be convinced that it is time for us to act.

      [quote]Give it to adoption. But is it difficult not to have it? It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that sex lead to babies, because that’s how humans have been born since the beginning of times. Pregnancy is not some innovation of the XX century, even indians isolated in the middle of the forest know how it works.[/quote]

      As an ancient proverb says, sex is for recreation and procreation.In ancient days, the babies were made and the parents were responsible to take care of them.Unfortunately, in modern times, sex is just for recreation. Unwanted babies came not because they wanted to come into this world,but some one produced them without knowing the consequences of their “recreation”. Adoption is an option, but how many are willing to do it? If the foreigners want to do it, we blame that they are doing it to steal their organs for transplants. I think that we have to teach the less informed people about “responsible parenthood” and NOT “planned parenthood”.

      [quote]Ignorance is not an excuse.[/quote]

      I agree,but who will make them less ignorant? Current government policy seems to be “Ignorant is a bliss”.

      Anyway, it was a very interesting debate we have been having and I must say that I learn’ t a bit more from you as well as “Gringo”.

    • João da Silva

      A Brazilian
      Thanks for your reply and indeed I am pleased. I always thought you were one of the most misunderstood bloggers on this site and you just proved it,as I understand you much better than many people. A bit pissed off at the current state of affairs as I am,but so what. Let me try to reply to your comments, though you may not agree with me on all points and I not on yours either.

      [quote]I don’t know of any action against them, but there should be. Brazil opens the legs for the UN and any European dictating what
      to do with our territory and people and, at the same time, demonize the US as if they were interested in taking the Amazon away.[/quote]

      You are absolutely right. We seem to be very happy to open our legs to U.N and the European powers like Spain, Italy and Portugal (not to forget French). Look at what happened during the privatization of our state owned companies in 1997/1998. This occurred during the government of FHC who spent most of his youthful years in France, “Self Exiled”. When the time was ripe he came back and I think that “demonizing the U.S” started from his time or just before then. Remember Gilberto Almeida of AM who claimed that he had a degree from Sorborne? I honestly think that the U.S has no interest in taking the Amazon from us and your opinion just reinforces mine. But we are in a big frenzy blaming U.S for everything,including the Revolution of 1964!

      U.N is almost as dead as the League of Nations. I don’t know if you remember Forrest Brown, he has mentioned about it several times. Unfortunately, U.N has been taken over by underdeveloped and over populated countries to which we do not belong.Sorry to be blunt about it.

      So we are a bit lost, unable to take any action on the European “Powers” which lost the power a long time ago,but unwilling to acknowledge it. So there comes Brasil with rich resources and think that they can walk over it, of course with the Trojan horses ( I don’t have to explain to you who these horses are). Do you think that an average Brazilian understands or care about it? Hell, no, he prefers to believe in the government propaganda (when he is not watching the Novelas).

    • João da Silva

      Gringo/A Brazilian
      While I am replying to the comments of “A Brazilian”, I would like you both to go through the following site and I am sure Gringo has a reasonably good reading knowledge of written Portugusese!:

      [url]http://www.estadao.com.br/estadaodehoje/20071211/not_imp93897,0.php[/url]

      Sen (or Col).Passarinho is one of my favorite (non) politicians. A great leader and the best Minister of education that this country had during the recent times.Many would be upset with my statement, because he is from PA!! So what?

    • A Brazilian

      [quote]1) Assuming that ALL the NGOs are blood suckers and have come here to steal our wealth, what exactly our democratically elected governments are doing to prevent them from doing so? [/quote]

      I don’t know of any action against them, but there should be. Brazil opens the legs for the UN and any European dictating what
      to do with our territory and people and, at the same time, demonizes the US as if they were interested in taking the Amazon away. The difference is that the UN and NGOs are actively involved in many well documented anti-brazilian actions (such as coordinating indians into “independence”, internationalization of the Amazon, demarcation of lands, abortion and populational control, etc) and the US isn’t. So far I would say that the UN is a much bigger risk.

      You won’t hear about this from Brazilian academics though, because most of them are leftist. But I would recommend you to look for literature about “Globalism” and world government, which is what the UN stands for. NGOs are just tools for interventionism and counts with some fools fanaticism in order to work.

      [quote]He says that the manageable population of Brasil is around 100 Millions and we have to take measures to ensure that this goal is accomplished during the next few years.[/quote]

      I don’t understand. Are you proposing the elimination of 90 million people in order for the population to retreat back to 100 million? This is complete nonsense, European countries are much smaller than Brazil and they have close to 100 million, with our territory and resources we could easily have 5 times that. The population in Brazil is concentrated in the coast and that’s bad, if we were spread evenly across the country then it would look like there’s room for a lot more.

      [quote]My question, if some teenager without any means gets pregnant, do we have any social programs to take care of the kid or are we going to tell her that it is her problem? Please [/quote]

      Give it to adoption. But is it difficult not to have it? It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that sex lead to babies, because that’s how humans have been born since the beginning of times. Pregnancy is not some innovation of the XX century, even indians isolated in the middle of the forest know how it works. Ignorance is not an excuse.

    • João da Silva

      [quote]I am against abortions at late stage of pregnancy [/quote]

      Sorry, it should read “I am against abortions at ANY stage of pregnancy unless it endangers the mother”.

    • João da Silva

      A Brazilian
      Though I promised not to intervene further in this debate, I couldn’t resist coming out with a few questions for you:

      1) Assuming that ALL the NGOs are blood suckers and have come here to steal our wealth, what exactly our democratically elected governments are doing to prevent them from doing so?

      2) Both you and Gringo missed participating in the debate between Ricardo Amaral and many bloggers on the article written by Ricardo whose lineage traces back to Bonifacio. He says that the manageable population of Brasil is around 100 Millions and we have to take measures to ensure that this goal is accomplished during the next few years.My contention is that considering that we have a large land area, we don’t have to decimate the population, but to educate them to use the land and the resources to use them wisely to better their lives. Are we doing anything in this area? I doubt it, because I have some good friends in the Academic circles who are doing a good job on this issue, but their voices are not heard. Probably, because they don’t belong to the “Party”.

      3) I am against abortions at late stage of pregnancy and you better believe it.More towards prevention than abortion. If you recall, the use of “Camisinha” is being promoted to prevent Aids but not to make unwanted babies. My question, if some teenager without any means gets pregnant, do we have any social programs to take care of the kid or are we going to tell her that it is her problem? Please do assume that she is not Monica Veloso, while considering this situation.

    • Gringo

      ROTFLMAO
      [quote]There’s no arguing against facts. Take it:

      http://www.nrlc.org/news/2004/NRL07/margaret_sanger_and_planned_pare.htm%5B/quote%5D

      You DIDNÀ‚´T!

      IÀ¢€™m laughing so hard that I think I passed an entire cup of coffee through my nose.

      You know what you just did?

      You just linked to an NGO site as proof that NGOs are evil incarnate.

      ABSOLUTELY UNFREAKINGBELIEVABLE.

      You see Pea Brains, NGOs are NOT some large homologous group working in collusion under orders from shadowy rich villains in positions of power to usurp control over the minds in Brazil and instill in them whateveritis you think they wish to instill in them. Youˢ۪ve just proven my point. The Right to Life association (which YOU linked too) is an INTERNATIONAL NGO that accepts donations and volunteers just like ANY other NGO. So, if NGOs are so evil and have such sinister plans for Brazil and the world that you liken them to Nazis and Terrorists then WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU LINK TO AN NGO SITE AS PROOF TO YOUR DELUSIONAL THESIS?

      IÀ¢€™ll say it againÀ¢€¦

      ABSOLUTELY UNFREAKINGBELIEVABLE.

    • A Brazilian

      Gringo, the idiot
      There’s no arguing against facts. Take it:

      [quote]http://www.nrlc.org/news/2004/NRL07/margaret_sanger_and_planned_pare.htm[/quote]

    • Gringo

      YouÀ‚´re a total nutjob….
      [quote]No, they intervene because they were told (and paid) so.[/quote]

      [img]http://www.sexhamster.com/weblog/macropics/tinfoil-hat.jpg[/img]

      [quote]What happened in Germany happened in many places accross the globe, the difference is that you have something against them.[/quote]

      WTF? Uhm, yes I have something against the Nazis. Obviously you donÀ‚´t because you seem to trivialize that whole episode in history with your turrets “itÀ‚´s all a plot” delusions and paranoia.

      [quote]Studying what happened to transform normal people into killers might help us to prevent this from happening again. [/quote]

      It doesnÀ‚´t seem to be helping you folks out in Brazil with some 50,000 homicides a year. You might wish to give NGOs the benefit of the doubt and focus your rage on the actual killers in Brazil.

      [quote]If you were you would pick what I meant by comparing those things with NGOs and fanaticism. Another good example of fanaticism are suicidal bombers. What all those people have in common is a cause worth fighting for.[/quote]

      Again we know parrotboy, you think tree huggers and medical relief workers (letÀ‚´s not forget about all those NGO elderly volunteers teachig in favelas) are just as evil as Nazis and terrorists. YouÀ‚´ve said it enough, and we all perfectly understand just how twisted and demented your widdle pea brain actually is. We also know, given your wealth of knoweldge and penchant for verbal diarrhea, that RACISM is none existent in BRazil, too 😥

    • A Brazilian

      Gringo, the moron
      [quote]they INTERVENE thatˢ۪s what NGOs DO they INTEVENE when the government doesnˢ۪t act.[/quote]

      No, they intervene because they were told (and paid) so. Do you think it is normal for eugeniticist NGOs to promote abortion on third world countries? Karma is a bitch some say, but I don’t believe in those things. The only place where population control actually worked was in Europe and a few other developed countries. Thinking that this was supposed to prevent the “unfit” from procreating it even seems a kind of “divine justice”, doesn’t it?

      Do you think it’s normal for UN to legislate over what other countries should do with their own territory and people? Leftists in Brazil fuel the idea that the US is the real danger. I disagree, the UN and NGOs are the real danger for our sovereignty because of very real action they are taking right now against our country just like that indigenous people’s declaration.

      [quote]…and now you equate them with tree-huggers and educators?[/quote]

      What happened in Germany happened in many places accross the globe, the difference is that you have something against them. And not only jews died, despite of what the Hollywood tells. Many people died, including the political opposition to the Nazi party in Germany, for many different reasons.

      Studying what happened to transform normal people into killers might help us to prevent this from happening again.

      [quote]IÀ¢€™m certainly familiar with the…[/quote]

      No, you are not. If you were you would pick what I meant by comparing those things with NGOs and fanaticism. Another good example of fanaticism are suicidal bombers. What all those people have in common is a cause worth fighting for.

    • Gringo

      One last cracker for Polly OK?

      [quote]Either you can’t read and understand a text or you are purposefully dodging the question. The whole problem of NGOs is international intervention in the country’s local affairs.[/quote]

      YES, they INTERVENE thatˢ۪s what NGOs DO they INTEVENE when the government doesnˢ۪t act. I established THAT fact about 10 posts ago. YOU seem to think that there is some sort of coordinated conspiracy to undermine Brazilˢ۪s sovereignty as a nation (pound chest here) orchestrated by rich power brokers looking to cash in on Brazilˢ۪s untold riches. When in actual fact itˢ۪s groups of people getting together, many volunteering their time, to do WHAT YOUR GOVERNMENT IS INCAPABLE OF DOING (which in the case of Brazil is just about everything).

      [quote]Such organizations attempt to change policies according to some private agenda with a complete disregard for the people’s will.[/quote]

      Here is where you go overboard. WHAT IS THE PRIVATE AGENDA? To change an antiquated law? To push for conservation? Equal rights? More education? A meal a day? Something to read and the ability to read it? Medical attention? And are all groups IN ON IT? Holy hand grenades ParrotBoy, youÀ¢€™re not only delusional but extremely paranoid. But thatÀ¢€™s to be expected from a fool who pulls his information from Alert.org, a CHRISTIAN RIGHT WING FUNDED website (published by CAPAZ DAE À¢€“ Capable of God for those who donÀ¢€™t read Latin) with two infamously famous propagandists from the lunatic fringe posing as journalists and stirring simple minds like yours into a frenzy over just about anything ecological or indigenous. I just KNEW you were a frequenter of that rabid right wing site. Now it is all crystal clear. You use this as proof? Costa and Carrasco (a GRINGO btw) use US CHRISTIAN MONEY, first from the Lydon Larouche Foundation, and now from elsewhere to fill the internet full of bullshit regarding the environment and Indigenous issues. Bone heads like you eat this shit up: the fact you donÀ¢€™t check your sources is a telltale sign as to your superficiality.

      [quote]Murder is not a personal matter, no woman has the right to kill anything and if a woman gets pregnant then she has done her choice already.[/quote]

      [b]Yawn.. [/b]

      [quote]It represents a concept deeper than just a bunch of German losers ganging up for making evil like you saw on the “Private Ryan” movie.[/quote]

      Itˢ۪s nice of you to belittle the millions of Jews killed at the hands of these barbarians, and now you equate them with tree-huggers and educators? Fuck off and die.

      [quote]I cited “political religion”, a term you aren’t familiar with judging by your response, and you pathetically started drolling over how christians are bad, haha. It doesn’t even make any sense.[/quote]

      Iˢ۪m certainly familiar with the bafflegab and sociological buzz phrase given it is aped by losers like you ad nausea from sites like the ones youˢ۪ve linked to above. You are all of the same ilk; easily readable, stubbornly thick and extremely simple in your concepts. Iˢ۪ve mowed down your ass three ways from sundown and yet you still come back with even less and less substance, youˢ۪re just an unrelenting stubborn animal. Give it up while you still have a semblance of respect from others here. It seems that even Joao in growing a little disillusioned with your rabid delusional rants.

    • João da Silva

      P. Lienard
      [quote]Joao da Silva. No the Belgian side. The brasilian one is more of the farmer type.[/quote]

      That is because your family from the Belgium side was quite busy all over Africa. The Brasilian side is probably boiling with rage because of the injustices committed in PiauÀƒ­ and I don’t blame them.

      In any case, you better remain neutral and not take any sides. I mean real neutral and not the version of Ch.c’s Swiss Neutrality 😉

    • João da Silva

      Gringo
      [quote]See now you go and get all conciliatory on me; this must be the elation swing of your bi-polar disorder?[/quote]

      Thanks for the free diagnosis and I appreciate it. I hope this bi-polar disorder is not a terminal disease.

      [quote]I quite like it. [/quote]

      Just because I am suffering from bi-polar disease and at any moment kick the bucket?

      [quote]Here, I agree that all of the PTs buddies who set up NGOs to get their filthy paws on government handouts are trash. They are worse than trash because they use the plight of their hard-done by brethren to line their own pockets. To me it is as disgusting as the Ambulance bloodsuckers scam but I wouldnˢ۪t lump Doctors without Boarders, WWF, GTA, UNICEF of even Greenpeace into that lot like our friend ParrotBoy did.[/quote]

      You are absolutely right. Lately, “A Brazilian” has been behaving rather strangely and it is quite possible that the leftists kidnapped and brainwashed him. I was taken aback with his vitriolic attacks on the Nazis.We need to debrief and bring him back to reality. He was never Xenophobic and quite possible that he has been offered a high level post in the PT government and hence decided to hobnob with the “alto escalÀƒ£o do partido”.

      What else to do? I am suffering from terminal bi-polar disease and my last contribution to this debate.

    • A Brazilian

      For the others
      For those interested in learning more about political religions please see “Earthly Powers” from Michael Burleigh. This historian, who also produced a very good work on the Third Reich, tells about such “revolutionary” movements since before the French revolution until the Nazi Germany. He argues that people have a need for believing in some promising future, and when the religions fail to provide it then it is directed towards other things, such as politics.

    • A Brazilian

      Gringo, the monosynaptic retard
      [quote]but more importantly they trivialize what the Nazi party was actually about. [/quote]

      Have you ever studied what the Nazi party is all about to begin with? It represents a concept deeper than just a bunch of German losers ganging up for making evil like you saw on the “Private Ryan” movie. It’s much more than that and it shares a lot of characteristics with other revolutionary movements, such as the Bolshevism and the Jacobinism from the French revolution.

      We have this shadow upon us once again with a bunch of wackos that decided to turn the world a “better” place, for whatever political nonsense they stand for.

      I cited “political religion”, a term you aren’t familiar with judging by your response, and you pathetically started drolling over how christians are bad, haha. It doesn’t even make any sense.

    • A Brazilian

      Gringo, the stupid
      Either you can’t read and understand a text or you are purposefully dodging the question. The whole problem of NGOs is [b]international intervention in the country’s local affairs[/b]. It doesn’t matter if it is feminist, ecologist, “gayzist”, “negroist” or WTF! Are you capable of understanding this simple concept? Such organizations attempt to change policies according to some private agenda with a complete disregard for the people’s will.

      [quote]NO, it is YOU getting in the way of a very difficult and PERSONAL matter[/quote]

      Murder is not a personal matter, no woman has the right to kill anything and if a woman gets pregnant then she has done her choice already.

      And, BTW, certain organizations fund abortions even in places where it is illegal, such as Brazil, while making up fake “statistics” (that contradicts offical public health numbers) for supporting their agenda. A homework assignment for you: research about the Planned Parenthood’s founder connections with eugeniticist organizations and how sterilization and abortion were intended to curb the fertility in third world nations. I will give you a clue:

      [url]http://www.nrlc.org/news/2004/NRL07/margaret_sanger_and_planned_pare.htm[/url]

      [quote]While Planned Parenthood adamantly insists otherwise, it is clear that Sanger (1879-1966) was a eugenicist. She believed that birth control served a great eugenic purpose by stopping those she described as the genetically “unfit” from reproducing. [/quote]

      or:

      [quote]Of course, few if any current members of Planned Parenthood are likely to know the history just described or would agree with such bald eugenic claims. Nevertheless, the organization in fact advances the eugenic agenda, even if often unconsciously.

      For example, Planned Parenthood has never ceased to target the poor and disabled, Sanger’s favorite examples of the so-called “unfit.” In the year 2000, almost 75% of PPFA clients had incomes at or below 150% of the poverty line.[/quote]

      [quote]Who does this? [/quote]

      [url]http://www.alerta.inf.br/Geral/1203.html[/url]

      Research the UN’s declaration for the rights of indigenous people, which guarantees them the right for independent institutions and prohibits the military intervention in their land.

      [b]If you hadn’t your head stuck in your ass you would know it.[/b] You live in a fucking fairy tale.

    • Gringo

      [quote]And, by the way, you ignored the link I have put here that lists feminists NGOs promoting abortion. The main problem is not “corruption” in “local NGOs”, but international NGOs trying to influence local policies even if the population is against it.[/quote]

      Well, what does an NGO doing safe abortions have to do with the WWF? You see parrotboy, you just canˢ۪t seem to get it through your thick primate like skull that NGOs are not some homologous group and that there is actually quite a bit of diversity in ideologies and goals. Until you can comprehend that basic tenet of this debate, youˢ۪re really not worth dealing with. But for shits n giggles, it IS fun to get under your bigoted skin and listen to you squawk. ParrotBoy wanna cracker?

      As to your RANT about what the POPULATION WANTS in this particular case, maybe you should ask what these girls want. I doubt very much this FEMINIST (Xenophobic & sexists are we?) NGO is forcing pregnant women to perform abortions at gun point. But of course we all know you fundamentalists prefer young girls to die in dark street corners with coat hangers.

      [quote]So in the case of abortion, despite the fact that the vast majority of the population is against it such NGOs (either international or national funded by international foundations) try to impose it. This is a direct attack on our sovereignty.[/quote]

      NO, it is YOU getting in the way of a very difficult and PERSONAL matter. Dipshit.

      [quote]Populational control in order to serve the interests of a few developed countries is just one minor example of how NGOs are harmful.[/quote]

      I think your tinfoil hat is on a little TOO tight. You show proof that this is a strategic international plot to control BrazilÀ¢€™s population, and IÀ¢€™ll eat your tinfoil hat. Proof requires a little more than À¢€œwell I read it somewhereÀ¢€Â, ok trutinho.

      [quote]From the point of view of the “believer”, NGOs could be comparable to Nazism. From the point of view of the victims, i.e., us, this can be seen as neo-colonialism, a new way the metropolis has to influence the policies in the colonies for their own benefit.[/quote]

      Again your comparisons to Nazi Germany are so out in left field that youˢ۪re just embarrassing yourself. Idiots all over the net like comparing just about anything to the Nazis, that why most posts canˢ۪t even go 10 blogs without some wanker making the asinine link. Gratuitous comparisons to Nazism annoy the fuck out of me not only because theyˢ۪re a last ditch effort to argue from retarded single synaptic primates, but more importantly they trivialize what the Nazi party was actually about. Again, pick up a history book and look for yourself.

      [quote]About the Indian land demarcations, the twist is to consider those lands “independent countries”.[/quote]

      Who does this? Again, cite proof ParrotBoy and stop aping what some pinga saturated ex-army moron told you Friday night at the local À¢€“ shirts optional À¢€“ boteca. ItÀ¢€™s just meaningless drivel prattling from your unthinking pie-hole without proof. And PULLLEESSS JeffersonÀ¢€™s NeighborÀ¢€™s blog doesnÀ¢€™t cut the muster as proof shitforbrains, although IÀ¢€™m sure it does in what ever backward ass College messed up your head.

      Now run along ParrotBoy, the kindergarden retoric you’re aping is getting boring.

    • A Brazilian

      Conclusion
      NGOs represent international interests and the fanaticism of their followers and the “activist” culture they promote is something to worry about.

    • A Brazilian

      The NGOs problem is not only corruption
      And, by the way, you ignored the link I have put here that lists feminists NGOs promoting abortion. The main problem is not “corruption” in “local NGOs”, but international NGOs trying to influence local policies even if the population is against it. So in the case of abortion, despite the fact that the vast majority of the population is against it such NGOs (either international or national funded by international foundations) try to impose it. [b]This is a direct attack on our sovereignty.[/b]

      Populational control in order to serve the interests of a few developed countries is just one minor example of how NGOs are harmful. Just in case I will put the link here again:

      [url]http://www.midiasemmascara.com.br/mapas/RedesFeministas.php[/url]

      From the point of view of the “believer”, NGOs could be comparable to Nazism. From the point of view of the victims, i.e., us, this can be seen as neo-colonialism, a new way the metropolis has to influence the policies in the colonies for their own benefit.

      About the Indian land demarcations, the twist is to consider those lands “independent countries”. Usually the lands are way too big for the tribes to be able to take care of and usually they are located in places where minerals are known to be found. Coincidence? Some information about the land demarcations problems:

      [url]http://vizinhodojefferson.blogger.com.br/2007_09_23_archive.html[/url]

      [quote]LÀƒ¡, onde se hasteia todas as manhÀƒ£s, hÀƒ¡ anos, a bandeira do ImpÀƒ©rio em conluio com a ineficiÀƒªncia da gestÀƒ£o do desgoverno Lula do pT, ongs e supostos padres premiam com dinheiro silvÀƒ­colas que nÀƒ£o falam com brancos. O problema Àƒ© tÀƒ£o grande que a inteligÀƒªncia do exÀƒ©rcito prevÀƒª conflitos armados entre Àƒ­ndios, tutelados por ongs estrangeiras, e soldados do EB.[/quote]

    • A Brazilian

      [quote]And yes, Parrotboy is VERY xenophobic. It flows from his writings, especially in how he refers to the US and Europe. [/quote]

      Everything I say is backed up by history. And the quantity of absurdities on this site, especially by those who get their pants wet just by thinking about “racial struggle”, is evidence enough who is the xenophobic here. Everything is about money in this world, [b]especially[/b] if there are Europeans or Americans involved.

    • A Brazilian

      Gringo, the bigot
      Gringo, you raised the X-tian flag because you can’t understand what political religions are. You just lack the knowledge to understand what I said.

      I didn’t retreat, I just won’t enter in a name calling competition with some idiot who acts like 10 years old. What I said is there, and you dodged, cursed, made a big scene but didn’t prove I was wrong.

    • Lienard

      Joao da Silva. No the Belgian side. The brasilian one is more of the farmer type.

    • Gringo

      See now you go and get all conciliatory on me; this must be the elation swing of your bi-polar disorder? I quite like it.

      One of the concepts I was trying to drive home to parrotboy was that NGOs are not some huge homologous group with identical MOs. Heck if they were there wouldnÀ¢€™t be so much infighting. Given the article was based on a WWF study, I was sticking to international NGOs to make a point until parrot boy stumbled in with his conspiracy theories and quotable gems like À¢€œNGOs are this generations NazisÀ¢€Â. He made no distinction between international NGOs, local NGOs, Grassroots groups, Ecological, educational, Animal welfare/husbandry etc. He made NO distinction; he just belched out a blanket statement that NGOs are À¢€œblood suckersÀ¢€Â.

      Of course there is a whole mess around national NGOs (IÀ¢€™ve been following the news) and political patronage. Certainly, in a nation where there really is NO DONOR culture, and national NGOs get the majority of their financing through the À¢€œLei de IncentivoÀ¢€Â, youÀ¢€™re going to have a whole lot of wiggle room for corruption. Especially in Brazil where corruption is so engrained and everyone looks for the next easy cash cow. The fact that there was corruption with national NGOs didnÀ¢€™t surprise me, so I donÀ¢€™t know why it should surprise others. Scratch a Brazilian company, political party, ministerial organ, etc…youÀ¢€™ll find corruption.

      Here, I agree that all of the PTs buddies who set up NGOs to get their filthy paws on government handouts are trash. They are worse than trash because they use the plight of their hard-done by brethren to line their own pockets. To me it is as disgusting as the Ambulance bloodsuckers scam but I wouldnˢ۪t lump Doctors without Boarders, WWF, GTA, UNICEF of even Greenpeace into that lot like our friend ParrotBoy did.

      I raised the X-tian flag because there is an ongoing ideological battle, lead by the ultra x-tian right to discredit NGOs, and even science and scientists. You can see this with the global warming debate, and in the classrooms of the US were biology text books that include evolution as a field of study have DISCLAIMERS. Religion is now appearing to have more added weight in the next US election, too. These ultra right loonies are operating in Brazil as well, and in another post I showed a website and gave two names of notorious fundamentalist trouble makers that spread their brand of poison in Bananalandia under the guise of being journalists.

      ParrotBoy, is basically regurgitating all the same old tiresome right wing ultra Christian bafflegab that circulating the globe, only amended for a Latin American audience. Thatˢ۪s why I called him out, and thatˢ۪s why he retreated. He knows Iˢ۪ve got his number. He and his ilk are extremely dangerous, because sadly in nations like Brazil, minds are not very analytical and easily malleable and he has access to a lot of heads to poison.

      And yes, Parrotboy is VERY xenophobic. It flows from his writings, especially in how he refers to the US and Europe.

      In regards to religion, it was Ron L. Hubert who once pinned that À¢€œif you want to get rich, start a religionÀ¢€Â and he did, and died filthy rich. In Brazil I recommend that if you want to get rich, befriend a politician.

    • A Brazilian

      Gringo, the uneducated
      [quote]Is all that you can do is ape the writings from some German Poly-sci pundit from decades ago? [/quote]

      You don’t need education, do you?

    • João da Silva

      Gringo
      [quote]I think you may need to see you doctor and cut back on your meds.
      [/quote]

      Thanks for the advice and showing concern on my deteriorating health!

      Seriously speaking, I was enjoying the debate between you and “A Brazilian”. You were trying to make some points and he was trying to make his. I don’t have to agree with all his views nor he on mine. The case of the NGO is one and I don’t agree that ALL the NGOs are blood sucking ones. But being in touch with the news, I can tell you something. In Brazil, it is becoming profitable to set up two things. NGOÀ‚´s who claim that they are helping the poor and the Unions that are supposed to protect the interests of the “Workers”. Of course, I am not forgetting the “Born again Christian Churches”, in spite of your commenting that probably I am in my 50’s and a God fearing X-tian! Believe me,all are good business ventures. Military bashing brings in votes for the politicians many of whom, by the way, made their career during the Military Government. “A Brazilian” knows lot more about Brazilian history and many times he has commented about the “Lost Moral Values” and how the ideas were not opposed by the Miltary. The fact remains that during that period, a solid middle class was built and this class helped the poor to get educated and better their lives. A few weeks ago, there was a guy by name “Mario Lucio” who used mention how the “office boys” who went to study in the night and became directors of companies.They were success stories of the “Brazilian Miracle”.This was accomplished with the Brazilian “Brain Power” and when there was a shortage of it foreign “Brain Power” was imported. No Xenophobia. I don’t think that “A Brazilian” is Xenophobic, but trying to say that we don’t need NGOs, Unions and the new Churches who pay lip service to the cause of the poor. I agree with you when you say that NGOÀ‚´s come in when there is a power vacuum in a nation.Some with good intentions like Doctors san Frontier (This function in remote areas of Brasil is being carried out by the medics of our armed forces.Few have heard of it) and others to pay lip service.

      Coming back to your comments:

      Though I knew of your country of origin (hopefully I am correct), I pulled your leg by making a comment:

      [quote]For us the dumb and uneducated Southerners, “Gringo” is a Spanish speaking Latin American like Argentine,Paraguayan,Bolivian or for that matter your beloved hero Hugo Chavez.[/quote]

      Of course you did not respond! So I continued goading you:

      [quote] Gringo, it is interesting to note that you did not respond to my comment about whom we Red Neck Southerners consider as Gringos. I am still waiting for this clarification.
      [/quote]

      Then you replied to me and confirmed my view points about Chavez and Che! Believe me, I know several Argentines and Chileans who came to Brasil to escape the real dictatorships in their respective countries, received with open arms and are doing well, but spewing hatred towards the Brasilians.

      [quote]Like what has been widely published recently, Brazil is not a nation known for its academic prowess.[/quote]

      It was,but an opinion poll last year showed that the Brasilians place education as the 6th or 7th in their list of priorities. Expect it to deteriorate further. My posts on this issue have been very consistent, though sometimes sarcastic.

      [quote]I feel sorry for the few who are educated and sane here, because the masses always reflect poorly of them. [/quote]

      Thanks for your solidarity and whether other Brasilian bloggers like it or not, you said the truth.

      [quote]Wooh-there buckeroo. Che Guevera? Hugo Chavez? I think Chavez is a clown, and Che (el porko) a typical Latin American idiot. Why you feel the need to evoke the names of these two buffoons[/quote]

      Just to hear your opinion in prim and proper English and it sounds like music into my ears! A correction, though. It is not “el porko”, but “o porco”.

      [quote]See now youˢ۪ve just gone out and hurt my feelings.
      [/quote]

      My profound apologies for having offended your tender feelings!

      [quote]In regards to whatever CÀƒš do Mundo I come from, now is that anyway for a self-professed gentleman to talk? I thought you had at least a little class.[/quote]

      I just wanted to test your comprehension of Portuguese. You don’t have to go ballistic.

      [quote]You disappointment me Joao, but again disappointment is par for course when living in Bananalandia. [/quote]

      I was and am a big disappointment to everyone. I guess that is because I am getting old and senile 🙁

      However, I shall follow your advice and see my doctor who will be able to attend me only after the Carnival 😉

      And you. Take care and have a great week.

    • Gringo

      Squawk Squawk, eh Parrotboy?
      [quote]IDIOT! LOOK AT WHAT YOU HAVE WRITTEN: [/quote]

      [i]There is no assuming anything, and you are still tossing about the continent Africa like it is some sort of [b]national/racial [/b]catchall.[/i]

      [i]You gave the million dollar example: Africa. If it were not a continent so ripe with corruption and incompetence …[/i]

      Ya, so?

      Last weeks international PISA education ratings confirmed that Brazilians are among the worst in the world for reading skills and A Brazilian proves this point quite acutely here.

      SOURCE
      [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/education/7126388.stm[/url]

      Saying there is widespread and rampant corruption in the continent of Africa is NOT a sweeping generalization given the continent leads the world in corruption and ACKNOWLEDGES IT.

      SOURCE
      [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2265387.stm [/url]

      To say everyone in Africa is black IS a generalization as well as foolishly ignorant, but again, we expect things like this from you, eh cracker-jack?

      [quote]YOU ARE A TROGLODITE. You don’t even know about Voegelin, Burleigh or any other author that ever touched on the subject of political religions and their totalitarian nature. You are in need of an education, but it’s not I who will teach you anything here.[/quote]

      Is all that you can do is ape the writings from some German Poly-sci pundit from decades ago? You have no personal experience or insight to offer about NGOs? You read something once, so it must be true? You have no self generated opinions, DO YOU? Of course not parrotboy, youˢ۪re incapable of analysis. You simply squawk ideas heisted from others that suit your rabid political views.

      I doubt that youÀ¢€™ve read Alvro Vargas LlosaÀ‚´s À¢€œGuide to the Perfect Latin American IdiotÀ¢€Â but I wonÀ¢€™t hold it against you given itÀ¢€™s basically written with you in mind. 🙂

      [quote]http://www.amazon.com/Guide-Perfect-Latin-American-Idiot/dp/156833236X[/quote]

      Just to recap here are some of parrotboyˢ۪s most memorable SQUAWKS..
      1.À¢€œThere is no Racism in BrazilÀ¢€Â
      2.À¢€œNGOs are the Nazis of our generation.À¢€Â
      3.NGOs are just as bad as suicide bombers and Al Queda

      IÀ‚´m sure the good folks at Medecins Sans Frontiers would LOVE to hear thatÀ¢€¦

      Enjoy the dark, parrotboy.

    • A Brazilian

      Gringo, the troglodite
      [quote]There is no assuming anything, and you are still tossing about the continent Africa like it is some sort of national/racial catchall.[/quote]

      [b]IDIOT! LOOK AT WHAT YOU HAVE WRITTEN:[/b]

      [quote]. You gave the million dollar example: Africa. If it were not a continent so ripe with corruption and incompetence …[/quote]

      Yes, there’s assuming everything. Be a man and stand for what you said! You made a huge generalization involving one continent to justify your “help”. According to you “Africa” needs your help because they are “corrupt and incompetent”.

      [quote]How many paragraphs have you highlighted in the hopes of parroting that religious bible thumbing bulls**t out?[/quote]

      [b]YOU ARE A TROGLODITE[/b]. You don’t even know about Voegelin, Burleigh or any other author that ever touched on the subject of political religions and their totalitarian nature. You are in need of an education, but it’s not I who will teach you anything here.

      Moron.

    • Gringo

      [quote]No, it is not MY problem,but YOURS for believing in bulls**ts fed by whatever government of the country you come from.[/quote]

      What? So, tell me.. WHAT do I believe? That NGOs are not Nazis? (The most ridiculous comparison I have EVER read). That they are not terrorists? (I stand corrected; THIS was the more ridiculous comparison I ever read). This is the bullshit fed to me from my country? I think you may need to see you doctor and cut back on your meds.

      [quote]Your view of the world is so myopic that makes me sick.[/quote]

      Again, cutting the pills in half may help with your ill feeling.

      [quote]Never mind if I am an idiot,but your are a bigger one,because you swallow all the craps your government feed you with.[/quote]

      What crap would that be that I have swallowed?

      [quote]At least, “A Brazilian” is original and authentic in his views.[/quote]

      Like Iˢ۪ve written, heˢ۪s not that unique. His rabid xenophobic views, massive inferiority complex and paranoia can be found in many Brazilians. Like what has been widely published recently, Brazil is not a nation known for its academic prowess. However you didnˢ۪t need an international study to confirm this. A simple walk up and down any street provides ample evidence. I feel sorry for the few who are educated and sane here, because the masses always reflect poorly of them.

      [quote]A self styled defender of the poor and probably related to Che Guevara or better still Hugo Chavez.[/quote]

      Wooh-there buckeroo. Che Guevera? Hugo Chavez? I think Chavez is a clown, and Che (el porko) a typical Latin American idiot. Why you feel the need to evoke the names of these two buffoons in an argument about NGOs is beyond me. But then again, this is Brazil so…

      [quote]Gringo, it is interesting to note that you did not respond to my comment about whom we Red Neck Southerners consider as Gringos. I am still waiting for this clarification.[/quote]

      Where did you ask this? And I donˢ۪t consider the southerners in Brazil to be red necks. Quite the contrary actually, I think most in this nation are a few cards shy a full deck, but the further north you go the more cards go missing. So please, Iˢ۪ve written heaps for you to work with, there is no need to invent things.

      [quote]Gringo, you are a bitter person,neither belonging to Brazil nor to your country of origin (whatever CÀƒº do Mundo you come from). I[/quote]

      See now youˢ۪ve just gone out and hurt my feelings.

      Although I know I do not belong to Brazil (given how bigoted many Brazilians are, I am reminded almost daily that IÀ¢€™m NOT from here) but I am actually proud of that fact too because IÀ¢€™m far too rational, courteous and drive far too well to be Brazilian. In regards to whatever CÀƒš do Mundo I come from, now is that anyway for a self-professed gentleman to talk? I thought you had at least a little class. This I would expect from that raving lunatic A Brazilian, but Lil Ole Joao? You disappointment me Joao, but again disappointment is par for course when living in Bananalandia.

    • João da Silva

      Gringo
      [quote]Hugo Chavez? Is that a brand of whisky [/quote]

      Yes it is.Produced in Venezuela with the label bearing his pic along with that of Lula.Better than the tasteless Scotch whiskeys, though I cannot stand either of them. I prefer Jack.

      [quote]What are we in the 19th century or something? OK, CHUM…..[/quote]

      Obviously you are a fucking Brit,not that I mind them. For that matter, one of my best CHUMS is a Brit. He would be very upset to read your comments attacking me and calling me an Idiot.

      [quote]Can you PLEASE translate this into something remotely readable? [/quote]

      No, I cannot translate this without charging ya. Credit cards acceptable.

      [quote]Well, IÀ¢€™ve been here for over a decade and have never BASHED your army, although this À¢€œsupport our troopsÀ¢€Â mind washing, chest pounding, nationalism is nauseating whether from Brasil, the US , Canada, or anywhere. ItÀ¢€™s nationalism 101 for idiots, and the trump card of those damn yanks. If you buy into it here in Brazil, well, so be it. YouÀ¢€™re probably in your 50s, a good God fearing X-tian, and dumber than an OX. s
      [/quote]

      Unfortunately you came after our military Government. Our officers had this “Go get” attitude and not the misplaced nationalism.No, I am not a God fearing X-tian,though I love to ride the OX (especially the female one). There again you demonstrate your racism by calling the OX as dumb.The Oxen do provide animal traction, in case you have not heard about it.

      [quote]IÀ¢€™ve always argued that it was a home grown coupe and not some implanted dictatorship from the US as most profess (because we all know just how well the yanks over throw governments, lately, nÀƒ©?), [/quote]

      I agree with this.The old boys in their long johns have been saying it for years.One of them who participated is still alive and was the best Minister of Education ,this country had.Of course, you would not have heard about him,because of your hatred of our Military Government.

      [quote]What scares me more is that you and A BRAZILAN seem to think that if you STILL had rabid soldiers under a fascist rule, all the problems of violence would some how DISAPPEAR?????? muuuhoooohaaaaahaaaa[/quote]

      A Brazilian and me, rabid soldiers under fascist rule. You must be hallucinating. We are not just soldiers,but Officers and Gentlemen, though “A Brazilian” is junior to me.We are very democratic and don’t take shit from anyone who contests that we are against Democracy.

      So, my dear Gringo, u better be careful before criticizing us. We accept constructive criticisms, but not the kind of endless ones expressed by the old bags.

    • Gringo

      [quote]For us the dumb and uneducated Southerners, “Gringo” is a Spanish speaking Latin American like Argentine,Paraguayan,Bolivian or for that matter your beloved hero Hugo Chavez.[/quote]

      Hugo Chavez? Is that a brand of whisky or sumfin?

      [quote]Let me tell ya something,buster.[/quote]

      What are we in the 19th century or something? OK, CHUM…..
      [quote]
      When your countries were being ruled by ruthless dictatorships, ours received those goddamn leftist wimps by our Military GOVERNMENT with open arms and lots of “Gringos” who occupy important positions still continue to be leftists,but with one difference. They changed their allegiance and continue enjoying the Brazilian hospitality, but at the same time bashing the Brasilians and the MILITARY GOVERNMENT for all the ills of Brasil.[/quote]

      Can you PLEASE translate this into something remotely readable?

      [quote]What amuses me is the fact that the foreigners who have never been to Brasil or have been for a few days taking a great pleasure in bashing our Armed Forces.[/quote]

      Well, IÀ¢€™ve been here for over a decade and have never BASHED your army, although this À¢€œsupport our troopsÀ¢€Â mind washing, chest pounding, nationalism is nauseating whether from Brasil, the US , Canada, or anywhere. ItÀ¢€™s nationalism 101 for idiots, and the trump card of those damn yanks. If you buy into it here in Brazil, well, so be it. YouÀ¢€™re probably in your 50s, a good God fearing X-tian, and dumber than an OX. s

      [quote]You guys will never learn the glorious history of Brasil between 1964 and 1985,because you don’t want to.[/quote]

      IÀ¢€™ve always argued that it was a home grown coupe and not some implanted dictatorship from the US as most profess (because we all know just how well the yanks over throw governments, lately, nÀƒ©?), itÀ¢€™s nice to see the older generations in Sambalandia acknowledging that this particular era in Brazilian history was in FACT self inflicted. What scares me more is that you and A BRAZILAN seem to think that if you STILL had rabid soldiers under a fascist rule, all the problems of violence would some how DISAPPEAR?????? muuuhoooohaaaaahaaaa

    • João da Silva

      Gringo
      [quote]ThatÀ¢€™s YOUR problem…. if you consider someone who places Doctors without borders in the same camp as Al Queda, than you’re just as big an idiot as he is…[/quote]

      No, it is not MY problem,but YOURS for believing in bullshits fed by whatever government of the country you come from. Your view of the world is so myopic that makes me sick.Never mind if I am an idiot,but your are a bigger one,because you swallow all the craps your government feed you with. At least, “A Brazilian” is original and authentic in his views. You on the contrary, my dear fellow, is a big phony. A self styled defender of the poor and probably related to Che Guevara or better still Hugo Chavez.

      Gringo, it is interesting to note that you did not respond to my comment about whom we Red Neck Southerners consider as Gringos. I am still waiting for this clarification.

      Gringo, you are a bitter person,neither belonging to Brazil nor to your country of origin (whatever CÀƒº do Mundo you come from). I really wonder why “A Brazilian” is wasting his time trying to make you more sensible to the current problems our Republic is facing. There again, “A Brazilian” is more patient and democratic than I am.

    • Gringo

      A Brazilian, a fundementalist that would make Osama proud!
      [quote]Africa is still black in its majority and assuming they are incapable of taking care of themselves is paternalistic and demonstrates some prejudice against them.[/quote]

      There is no assuming anything, and you are still tossing about the continent Africa like it is some sort of national/racial catchall. You speak in generalities, and that is to be expected from a right wing sycophant unable to interpret nuances. You see the world in black and white, and given your racist tendencies, I mean that literally and metaphorically. The thing is trutinho, that there is a large group of disenfranchised out there abandoned by their compatriots and their governments, and yes at times, individuals, not collectives, have problems helping themselves because of obstacles cast in front of them that donˢ۪t allow them to help themselves. In the case of Brazil it is racism, governmental incompetence and a rich elite blind to the problems within their own nation. NGOs are a necessity. With troglodytes like yourself along the sidelines, NGOs are needed even more.

      [quote][b]Where are these thousands of deaths at the hands of NGOs?[/b]

      Evil is done either directly or indirectly. For example donations of grains hurt their agricultural industry, and a large portion of it will end up in the black market anyway. Donation of clothing prevents any textile industry to develop.[/quote]

      Nice dodge and weave tactic you unintelligible monosynaptic fool. Try actually answering the question without resorting to bafflegab aped from the http://www.alerta.inf.br/website. Again, I ask; give me examples of the thousands killed because of NGos? EXAMPLES!

      Iˢ۪m so sicken by right wing gibberish; itˢ۪s even more repulsive when evoked under the name of some mystical individual created to sooth the inadequate questions of humanityˢ۪s more inferior minds. Lorenzo? Or do you find the rabid x-tian fundamentalist Nilder Costa more invigorating a read? Youˢ۪re an open book A Brazilian.

      [quote]NGOs are the new political religions. Political religion is a set of beliefs that replace what [b]Christianity [/b]used do, but without a [b]God[/b].[/quote]

      And here we go. How is your copy of À¢€œMafia VerdeÀ¢€Â doing? How many paragraphs have you highlighted in the hopes of parroting that religious bible thumbing bullshit out? I might have known you are a man of fundamental religious convictions. A certifiable rightwing nut case with GOD on his side. Oh, how cute. Genisis 1:28? Ya, that gives us all the amo we need to fuck the planet, eh!

      [quote]The first steps toward this “political religion” is the non acknowledgement of reality and adoption of a fantasy that will justify everything. NGO believers think just as rationally as an Al Qaeda suicidal bomber.[/quote]

      WOW. Nazis first! And now terrorists? What`s next? Youˢ۪re not only an idiot, but I reckon a completely unstable idiot. But then again, the new reign of fundamental Christian Right wing fundamentalists are pretty freaking dangerous, itˢ۪s not surprising that theyˢ۪ve made their way to an easily malleable nation like Brasil.

      I take back what IÀ¢€™ve said, youÀ¢€™re not just a retarded individual, but you are a really scary retarded individual. And you liken NGOs like SOS Mata Atlantica? The Red Cross? Doctors without Borders? UNICEF? WWF? GTA and others to Al Queda? WOWZER… IÀ¢€™ll say that again.. WOWZER.

      To Joao
      [quote]Your personal attack on my friend “A Brazilian” is extremely disappointing, distressing and ungentlemanly. Calling “A Brazilian” a right wing nut is like calling my other friend “Ch.C”. Mao Tse Dung or Stalin.It is for me unacceptable.[/quote]

      ThatÀ¢€™s YOUR problem…. if you consider someone who places Doctors without borders in the same camp as Al Queda, than you’re just as big an idiot as he is…

    • João da Silva

      P. Lienard
      [quote]A segment of my family s serving in the forces but they would never dream of a military government.[/quote]

      Your family from Belgium or from PiauÀƒ­?

    • P. Lienard

      And bashing an abusive military power is not equivalent to bashing military forces. It is not because you are bashing the first type of power that you are a short-sighted pacifist. A segment of my family s serving in the forces but they would never dream of a military government.

    • P. Lienard

      But that it the essence of democracy. Chaotic but surely more just (for real democacy, I mean)

    • João da Silva

      P. Lienard
      [quote]Joao, is this irony (and I am not a leftist, not at all) or do you mean what you said?[/quote]

      I meant what I said about the “Military Government”,because I am sick and tired of this military bashing. Let me tell you one thing. It was easy to argue with a military officer to convince him that your idea was good than to talk to an idiotic politician of current days. Believe me. They were not xenophobic either. To listen to the crap of the politicians these days is very tiresome and unrewarding and just a futile exercise of your brain power.

    • P. Lienard

      and for the record, Chavez is what worst could happen o SA. Dangerous, ambitious and crazy f… populist> I thought that fall back would not happen anymore in SA. look at Bolivia and Vene. Gosh! People won’t ever learn.

    • P. Lienard

      Nope to far from there now and have no desire to go back there really. So Switzerland will have to wait.
      take care

    • P. Lienard

      Joao, is this irony (and I am not a leftist, not at all) or do you mean what you said?

    • João da Silva

      P. Lienard
      [quote]NO! NO! Not Ch. C., not that! [/quote]

      Ah, from Belgium? A short trip for Ch.c to go over there from Geneva to solve all your linguistic problems with his diplomacy,tact and shrewdness. He is such a nice guy that he wouldn’t even charge for the “Consulting fees”. 😉

    • João da Silva

      Gringo
      [quote]Ah a Brazilian, I just knew you wouldn`t go down without spewing more nonsensical paranoia and right wing gibberish.
      [/quote]

      Your personal attack on my friend “A Brazilian” is extremely disappointing, distressing and ungentlemanly. Calling “A Brazilian” a right wing nut is like calling my other friend “Ch.C”. Mao Tse Dung or Stalin.It is for me unacceptable.

      For us the dumb and uneducated Southerners, “Gringo” is a Spanish speaking Latin American like Argentine,Paraguayan,Bolivian or for that matter your beloved hero Hugo Chavez. Let me tell ya something,buster. When your countries were being ruled by ruthless dictatorships, ours received those goddamn leftist wimps by our Military GOVERNMENT with open arms and lots of “Gringos” who occupy important positions still continue to be leftists,but with one difference. They changed their allegiance and continue enjoying the Brazilian hospitality, but at the same time bashing the Brasilians and the MILITARY GOVERNMENT for all the ills of Brasil. What amuses me is the fact that the foreigners who have never been to Brasil or have been for a few days taking a great pleasure in bashing our Armed Forces.

      You guys will never learn the glorious history of Brasil between 1964 and 1985,because you don’t want to. You prefer to live under the false illusions transmitted by the leftists and watching the “Novelas” or going on “Sex Tourism” to Fortaleza.

    • P. Lienard

      NO! NO! Not Ch. C., not that!
      I wish I’d be from Sri Lanka. No I am just a plain, dumb Belgian.
      Take care

    • A Brazilian

      Gringo, the fanatic
      [quote]HOW on Gaiaˢ۪s green earth do you pull the racist card from a comment about WIDELY ACKNOWLEDGED CORUPTIPON on the African CONTINENT is beyond me. Especially given the multicultural hue of Africa, or are you one of those that think in absolutes and consider Africa only a BLACK continent and ignore the other cultural and racial realities?[/quote]

      Africa is still black in its majority and assuming they are incapable of taking care of themselves is paternalistic and demonstrates some prejudice against them. Why would they be so incapable that they need to be “rescued” by others?

      [quote]Where are these thousands of deaths at the hands of NGOs?[/quote]

      Evil is done either directly or indirectly. For example donations of grains hurt their agricultural industry, and a large portion of it will end up in the black market anyway. Donation of clothing prevents any textile industry to develop.

      NGOs are the new political religions. Political religion is a set of beliefs that replace what christianity used do, but without a God. It is used by academics to refer to Bolshevism, Fascism, Nazism and other bloody regimes (Communism and Nazism weren’t antagonistic as the myth created by the left says, and both shared many characteristics), where the Kingdom of Heaven in the afterlife is the replaced by the Kingdom of Heaven right now created by human volition, and the love for God is replaced by the love for men. It’s an attempt to bring on this Earth to reality a bright future, and in the name of such ideals certain things that would otherwise be considered immoral are ok.

      The first steps toward this “political religion” is the non acknowledgement of reality and adoption of a fantasy that will justifiy everything. NGO believers think just as rationally as an Al Qaeda suicidal bomber.

      More information on political religions, please see Voegelin.

      [quote]Youˢ۪ve been reading too much right wing propaganda..[/quote]

      For example:

      [url]http://www.midiasemmascara.com.br/mapas/RedesFeministas.php[/url]

      Here is the list of organizations promoting abortion in Brazil and who finances them, despite the fact that more than 85% of the population is against it. This is just one case of how international interest is imposed on other countries through the action of NGOs.

      There are plently of evidence of such dealings, but I guess evidence means nothing to you, does it? Who needs evidence when you have a perfect fairy tale to believe in?

    • João da Silva

      P. Lienard
      [quote]I come from a small and crappy country that I have left behind many years ago.[/quote]

      Ah, you must be from Sri Lanka, which is not crappy,but agree that they have problems with Tamils and Singaleses.

      BTW, if you don’t reveal your country of birth, I am afraid that I have to ask Ch.C to take you for a third degree interrogation 😉

    • Gringo

      A Brazilian, you mental midget…
      Ah a Brazilian, I just knew you wouldn`t go down without spewing more nonsensical paranoia and right wing gibberish.

      [quote]And you are the one accusing other of racism… Hahaha.[/quote]

      HOW on Gaiaˢ۪s green earth do you pull the racist card from a comment about WIDELY ACKNOWLEDGED CORUPTIPON on the African CONTINENT is beyond me. Especially given the multicultural hue of Africa, or are you one of those that think in absolutes and consider Africa only a BLACK continent and ignore the other cultural and racial realities?

      [quote]The problem is that Europe and some Americans act too much paternalistically towards Africa[/quote]

      Maybe Brazil should be added to the list too, or have we forgotten LulaÀ¢€™s million (used for exaggeration purposes) trips to Africa discussing poverty in the region? But what does this have to do with NGOs? The fact is that many nations within this continent have serious problems, some inherited from colonial times, others self inflicted, and those that bear the brunt of these problems are every day citizens. The fact that groups from the US and from Europe , and even from Brazil for that matter want to help is in no way some belittling paternalistic attitude shown towards À¢€œinferiorsÀ¢€Â but genuine altruistic endeavours from caring individuals in HAVE nations towards those passing through a rough patch in history. Are there some nefarious groups operating out there? IÀ¢€™m sure there is, however the larger ones have a pretty decent and historically solid track record. It would do your pea-brain a great service to seek some of them out and read some of their materials.

      [quote]The same applies for Latin America. The very idea that the people could manage everything by themselves goes against the interests of many rich individuals. Fuelling the notion that Europe must “intervene” in order to stop some “big evil” is just the kind of bulls**t we all have seen already in the history of mankind and that led to the death of thousands.[/quote]

      This is proof that you donÀ¢€™t have a freaking clue what you are talking about. Where are these thousands of deaths at the hands of NGOs? And sorry shit for brains, some folks do actually need a hand because their governments and their very own national brethren have abandoned them. As IÀ¢€™ve stated repeatedly, NGOs have a tendency to pop up in a manner that reflects the nation. In Brazil, groups are very ecological (given the diverse and unique ecology of the nation, and the problems maintaining such ecological richness) as well as poverty and education oriented why? YOUR GOVERNEMET HAS REPEATEDLY FAILED A LARGE PORTION OF THE POPULATION. Folks with money and hearts (sometimes out of guilt) have the means to help NOW and avoid two or three decades of empty rhetorical promises made from self serving and greedy politicians. You see that as interfering, I see that as an international Jeitinho…

      [quote]UN would like to demarcate Indian lands and treat them as independent lands. Why? Because it’s easier to cheat Indians into disavantageous businesses and they would have it assured that they, the indians, would be incapable of defending their land against any modern army. The logic is “divide and conquer”.[/quote]

      YouÀ¢€™ve been reading too much right wing propaganda… The great thing about living between two countries, one in the developed world and one in the developing world, is that you get to hear the right wing fear-mongering from two different perspectives. Right wing nut jobs in the poor countries argue that NGOs are created under the auspicious of the UN to continue to undermine the development of poorer nations and to safeguard untold natural riches for RICH nations in the future. Your idiot conservative blow-holes in the developed world think that NGOs are created under the auspicious of the UN to take wealth from the rich nations and redistribute them to the poorer À¢€œinferior À¢€œ nations to create some sort of socialist dreamworld. The only truth in these ideologies is that both are based in paranoia, stupidity, bigotry and blind nationalism.

      Enjoy your life in the dark pea-brain.

    • P. Lienard

      Oops! I forgot a word. I lived in the “UK” for a while while working there. And that is a place I did not like. God knows why. I just did not.

    • P. Lienard

      Never and I would love to. Australia is beautiful and I recently heard that I also had some family there. I am not so sure about New Zealand. Dunno much about it.
      Yep I spend many years working with pastoralist populations in Kenya but I also spend a fair amount of time in Ethiopia and some other countries around for shorter trips. And I also lived for some time while working there. I must say that I hated it!
      Thank you for the compliment. I really thought I sucked. Maybe the reading is responsible for it. I really do not know as I am not a native English speaker and I learned English in the USA where now I am back, living and working again foe some time. Hopefully a long time. I like to conduct research with a base here. It is amazing the access to knowledge that you can have here.
      Id be flattered to be South African, a beautiful country with some problem, yes, but splendid. One of my best friend here is a professor who migrated when he was 18 from over there at a time when it wasn’t that great to be white and opposed to what was taking place. I love that guy and would be proud to be a compatriot. I do not have that luck. I come from a small and crappy country that I have left behind many years ago. A country with linguistic problems where nothing moves really. I got fed up of it and decided that I should try to see the world. I have done so for many years now (15). Hope it will continue.

    • João da Silva

      [quote]Why? Do I sound like one? Just let me know, I’d love to hear what you have to say.[/quote]

      As you yourself confessed (Not under duress), you are not a Brit.You are certainly not an American,because of your excellent expressions in English (unless you spent too much time in East Africa-I bet it was in Kenya). But you sound so much like a Brit that I got an impression that you are from a country where the folks drive on the WRONG side of the road! So you could be from one of the erstwhile colonies of Mother England. Regardless, better be careful while driving in Brasil where you do it on the RIGHT side of the road.

      BTW, you ever been to Auckland or Sydney?

    • P. Lienard

      Why? Do I sound like one? Just let me know, I’d love to hear what you have to say.

    • João da Silva

      P. Lienard
      Are you a South African, Peter (or) Paul?

    • P. Lienard

      And on a general point, you should clearly spell out all the implicit assumptions that you make when reasoning out loud, would help understanding your sinuous trains of thoughts.

    • P. Lienard

      Never say Saving popol, not much of a TV type much more into reading. bUt I am sorry I do not get why you bring that in your argument. And about the imperialistic bullshit, dude, you need to get out of your paranoia bubble! You are slowly driving nuts but then again if you glorify the military power that came into being in 64, you must definitely be half-demented.
      Take care nevertheless.

    • P. Lienard

      There is nothing left to say when confronted to such bad faith (at best) or simplistic and naive world vision. Choose your pick!

    • A Brazilian

      Just a complement. NGOs are a new way some people found to intervene in other countries in order to further their own agendas, regardless of what the people living there think. This is a recent development in human history.

      As an example I give the network of feminist NGOs that promote abortion. We all know the history of sterilization and abortion. They were intended to keep “inferior races” in low numbers in order to avoid them growing too much and, therefore, threaten the “master race”. That was in the beginning of the XX century and the founder of the NGO called “Planned Parenthood” was actively involved in Eugeniticists organizations by then. Now the money flows to those organizations for promoting “abortion” worldwide, but nobody mentions their dark pasts. [b]They have created this “noble goal” which is worth fighting for, deceived a bunch of morons and now intervene in the policies of several countries. This is what NGOs are for! They are tools for international interests in your country![/b]

      Who cares if more than 85% of the Brazilian population is against abortion? The NGOs don’t care about anything other than their masters’ goals.

    • A Brazilian

      Lienard
      He is an ignorant. He must be one of those that know only about World War II what he has seen on “Saving Private Ryan”. Please, lots of people died in WWII and many Germans as well. The comparison is to illustate the imperialistic urge that NGOs stand for. Do some research on NGOs first and who finance them.

    • A Brazilian

      Gringo
      [quote]If it were not a continent so ripe with corruption and incompetence…[/quote]

      And you are the one accusing other of racism… Hahaha.

      The problem is that Europe and some Americans act too much paternalistically towards Africa, treating them as if they were little children incapable of taking care of themselves, because [b]there are important resources there[/b]. It’s just business and keeping them “needy” is the best course of action for now.

      If they were really interested in humanitarian goals they would leave them solve their problems by themselves. Just leave them alone. For example, giving away clothes completely obliterates any local industry that could ever appear. Who is going to buy clothes if you can get it for free? But you can’t afford not negociating with them, and that’s why they have so much unwanted attention.

      The same applies for Latin America. The very idea that the people could manage everything by themselves goes against the interests of many rich individuals. Fueling the notion that Europe must “intervene” in order to stop some “big evil” is just the kind of bullshit we all have seen already in the history of mankind and that led to the death of thousands.

      I am not saying that countries are in it, but a very few powerful individuals are interested in it, and therefore they can influence “public opinion” in different ways in order to secure them their goals. UN would like to demarcate Indian lands and treat them as independent lands. Why? Because it’s easier to cheat Indians into disavantageous businesses and they would have it assured that they, the indians, would be incapable of defending their land against any modern army. The logic is “divide and conquer”.

    • João da Silva

      [quote]You know that little book that lays out a vision for Brazil written by Brazilians? [/quote]

      I remember the “Little Book” and comments made by two eminent jurists, one on a national level and another on State level (this one is a good friend of mine). The one on the national level got drunk when the little book was approved and was laughing his ass off.The latter confided in us that “It was not written for the present nor for the future, just to please the ‘falso sentimento latino’ “. Now we have the “Little book” and thousands of lawyers in profitable businesses to interpret it.It is very sad when you find out that an average Brazilian does not even know what is “ConsituÀƒ§Àƒ£o”. He gets confused by “ConstipaÀƒ§Àƒ£o”.

      “Little book” sounds as ominous as “Mein Kampf”.;-)

      BTW, both the old boys are still alive and lucid.

    • P. Lienard

      Beautiful response. I could not have done better. But I am still amazed at how some people are just so blind and delusional! Scary really!

    • Gringo

      Keep writing A Brazilan, with every keyboard punch registered, your fame for being stupid grows
      [quote]Gee! I do not believe what I read! Do you actually believe what you are saying? Just plain amazing![/quote]

      Believe it! And donˢ۪t worry; heˢ۪ll keep aping that ilk of synaptically dysfunctional paranoia forever. I donˢ۪t review the comments of this site often, but when I do, I can count on A Brazilian coming up with some of the most rabid, right wing, delusional bafflegab going. The problem is that A Brazilian DOES represent the mindset of many in this nation already suffocating under the weight of collective stupidity. Figures from last week`s international math and reading tests prove this.

      Now to trutinho….

      [quote]Which sites have you been seeing?[/quote]

      Mostly news sites in the south that report about these À¢€œnonexistentÀ¢€Â racists in Brazil, and how many keep their poisonous sites based in Argentina because of cheaper internet connections and even LAXER anti-hate laws. The fact that you donÀ¢€™t read the dailies is obvious given your head in the sand mentality.

      [quote]They are a bunch of blood sucking leeches, the by-product of an European longing for a time when it was powerful enough to have empires. Look at Africa, NGOs are the neo-colonialism. Not only they keep things the way they have always been, but also receive millions of dollars from “benefactors” (those who pull the strings) and suckers all over the globe. [b]Everything to the pocket of a few for not doing anything.[/b][/quote]

      Actually the last line you wrote sounds more like a Brazilian politician than an Ongeiro…he hehe

      OK trutinho, Like I wrote above, NGOS appear in nations/locations where governments donÀ¢€™t act, or an incapable of acting on behalf of its citizens. You gave the million dollar example: Africa. If it were not a continent so ripe with corruption and incompetence (the fallout of past colonial efforts) youÀ¢€™d NOT see as many groups trying to help. Brazil has many NGOs too because quite like the continent of Africa, corruption, nepotism, greed and sheer ignorance reign; so it is up to others to step up to the plate and take on certain tasks or pressure the governments to do their jobs. You blame NGOs for being greedy, but its NGOs demanding debt relief for most 3rd world nationsÀ¢€“ so how does that work if you think these groups are just out to steal, oh great barer of knowledge?

      [quote]Most Nazis were led to believe in some very urgent question that thretened everyone’s life and they gave their lives for it.[/quote]

      What? Like uhm, being lead to believe that foreigners and NGOs want to take over the Amazon? Gawd youˢ۪re an idiot. BTW, the rest of that your rant in that paragraph makes no sense.

      [quote]One of the examples I give is the insistence of the international oeganizations about Indian land demarcations. [/quote]

      Well, again, if the Brazilian government had demarcated all the lands by 95 like PROMISED in the 88 Constitution, then all would be hunky dorey now, nÀƒ© trutinho? But again, the government didnÀ¢€™t do its job OR what was promised to native groups and now NGOs are stepping up to the plate to pressure the government to act, or aiding the indigenous groups in the protection of their lands from GRILEIROS (remember 80% of what happens in the forest is usually ILLEGAL) until the government gets of their corrupt incompetent asses in gear and sets forth with policies to fulfil the Constitution. You know that little book that lays out a vision for Brazil written by Brazilians?

      The fact that you draw comparisons to Nazism and NGOs is just infantile. Only an angry little boy would argue something so blatantly fraudulent, and to be quite honest, so horrifically offensive to the honor of those whom died and suffered at the hands of Nazis. But like IÀ¢€™ve written, IÀ¢€™ve come to expect that from you.

    • Lloyd Cata

      Colonialism, Nationalism, Socialism, Capitalism, Totalitarianism, Fascism, Communism, & Greed
      JoÀƒ£o
      – Are you talking about Kofi Anon? I am kind of “Lost” –

      All of these ideologies the people can tolerate, even accept and progress, but when you add ‘Greed’ to any of the others the misery of the people turns to anger and violence.

      The Western Powers could have lived with Hitler, but he got too greedy. When he took Poland and France it was not that big a deal. They were still willing to do ‘business. If he had not attacked Russia, we would probably have a ‘Greater Germany’ today. Greed destroyed him. That is one of the marks of a true ‘tyrant’; they don’t know when to stop. The last crumb must be payed for in blood.

      So you see that the Russian people are more pleased with Mr. Putin, a true Communist, than the American people are with Mr. Bush, a true Capitalist. Mr. Bush’s greed is evident in the policies of making his friends rich, squeezing the middle-class, and raping the poor; ala New Orleans. Perhaps Americans would not like Mr. Putin, but Mr. Bush is hated around the world, no? Greed.

      In the recent Venezuelan referendum, Mr. Chavez may have passed modest proposal to increase his standing, but he got greedy and wanted too much too fast; and he now understands this. Good for him, and better for Venezuela.

      When will the greedy oligarchs, and corrupt politicians, and narco-traffickers understand that their greed is the fuel that will feed the fire to again destroy Brazilian society? When will they admit that every Brazilian has value to Brazil? There is nothing wrong with honest profit, but greed creates true suffering. [b]So when you see true suffering in a society you know it is because someone is being greedy.[/b]

      Chairman Mao had to kill 30 million Chinese, maybe more, to exterminate the same people from Chinese society. Now he is revered for saving China. Lessons are sometimes difficult; it’s the hard ones you remember!

    • P. Lienard

      Gee! I do not believe what I read! Do you actually believe what you are saying? Just plain amazing!

    • A Brazilian

      NGOs are cancer
      [quote]There’s enough racist Brazilian skinhead sites on line to keep you reading for weeks.[/quote]

      I don’t know of any, do you? Which sites have you been seeing?

      [quote]You may wish to open up a history book or two before repeating that idiocy just to get a better idea of what the Nazis actually did, and waht NGOs do[/quote]

      They are a bunch of blood sucking leeches, the byproduct of an European longing for a time when it was powerful enough to have empires. Look at Africa, NGOs are the neo-colonialism. Not only they keep things the way they have always been, but also receive millions of dollars from “benefactors” (those who pull the strings) and suckers all over the globe. Everything to the pocket of a few for not doing anything.

      Most Nazis were led to believe in some very urgent question that thretened everyone’s life and they gave their lives for it. Some just needed an excuse for acting like a beast, some others were used, some were affraid of standing up against it, and there were even some that stood against it and died for it. NGOs do just that, provide a meaning for people’s life, which involves some “terrible evil”.

      One of the examples I give is the insistence of the international oeganizations about Indian land demarcations. The detail is that all the land happens to be [b]rich in several minerals[/b], just like “Raposa Serra do Sol”. The minerals in that region, just by coincidence happen to be needed by the aerospace industry, such as niobium. Get a clue, NGOs are a cancer!

      [b]EVERYTHING[/b] about NGOs is business.

    • P. Lienard

      Gringo
      Hey Gringo! I probably share many of your views but you win at saying things in a lighter tone. Showing someone is wrong and inconsistent as you did is excellent but insulting someone forces him to refuse to review his beliefs. Expose and reveal the other one’s shortcoming over and over again gently. Bring people into an interaction and work them slowly just by proper argumentation and logics.
      Cheers

    • P. Lienard

      I am using firefox… and thunderbird! And indeed it checks. But you just do not read what I wrote. I do not quite understand your feeling when you seem to be pissed about MY wrong spelling as if it was in any sense saying anything on your level of education.
      I was not throwing dirt on you and I do not pretend to be an expert inre Brazil. I am interested in it and have listened to many Brasileiros complaining about it. I studied in depth the politics of geography in Brazil and I work with various communities that you could qualify as poor. Humbly, if I may say, I have had to understand nitty gritty of local politics. I understand some things, not a lot but enough to understand some general mechanism that structure some segment of your society (without pretending to be an expert… whcih does not mean that I cannot speak my mind on subjects touching upon Brazil).
      Nevertheless you have learned English and better than I have apparently if I follow what you are telling me (no I am not a Brit and I know how Brit are not too much liked in SA if I follow all the saying that I could here over there). And you own a computer and have the luxury to spend time in front of it so clearly you are not from Piaui (where btw I happen to have family) so life seems easy for you (as it is for me so far). But I agree on that one I might be wrong though I suspect you tweak your thoughts when you have to express them here online. I am still persuaded that if we were to talk eye to eye, you would fall back on your xenophobic assumptions. But hey! this is as much a pure aggression of my part as your opening in your last message.
      So may I ask why you ask me what CO2 menat. I must say I have a hard time figuring out why you brought that up.
      And the saving of the Amazon was in no sense part of my agenda. It was just an example for another correspondent to have a genuine discussion about free market, benefits and the potential to have the right influence on a situation judged wrong. Just that! And just so you know, I agree with one of the other previous intervention that in the actual situation, funding for suppressed deforestation would be a nonsense (in the case of Brazil) exactly for the reason evoked in the same intervention.
      I won’t even respond to the last bit of your intervention
      Cheerio

    • Gringo

      A Brazilian is truly an idiot.
      A Brazilian, youÀ¢€™re not the brightest lamp on GodÀ¢€™s Christmas tree are you. In another blog you claim À¢€œthere is no racism is BrazilÀ¢€Â which has to be about one of the most factually naive and retarded comments ever written because even if racism were not as overt as it is in the US and in many European nations, it still exists in Brazil. To say otherwise is just plain lunacy. There’s enough racist Brazilian skinhead sites on line to keep you reading for weeks.

      Now you are comparing NGOs to Nazis? You may wish to open up a history book or two before repeating that idiocy just to get a better idea of what the Nazis actually did, and waht NGOs do. For the most part NGOs do what your government is incapable of or not interested in doing À¢€“ HELPING OTHERS. NGOs, whether humanitarian, ecological or faith based pick up your governments slack (which there is a lot of). Also, they are very diverse; for you to lump them all under one umbrella is equally as intellectually fraudulent as saying there is ZERO racism in Bananaland.

      And in another blog you went off on a tangent defending the military regime from 64? I thought you nationalist knuckle draggers blamed the US for the military dictatorship? Now it was the proud men and women of the Brazilian armed forces who saved Brazil from the evils of communism? Maybe you are watching too much FOX TV À¢€œsupport our troops bullshitÀ¢€Âseeping up the USÀ¢€Â?

      Fuck, no wonder Brazil is in such a dismal state, look at the morons within its borders.

      [quote]Just a complement. As you know, people powerful enough can influence military decisions of some countries and even convince the public opinion that action is needed for avoiding some “terrible evil”. That’s what those NGOs stand for, teenagers and youngsters seeking for a meaning in life financed by the money of those who pull the strings.[/quote]

      Wow, that made NO SENSE AT ALL…..

    • João da Silva

      Peter Lie Hard
      While I was having a leisurely dinner, you were throwing dirt on me. Never mind. I could make out that you saw everything in Brazil and continue reading sporadically about her and learn ‘t nothing,which of course is very common to foreigners like your good self. You guys seem to consider yourselves as some sort of experts on Brazilian Affairs. There again, never mind. I am not as rancorous as Ch.c or “A Brazilian”. Now it is my turn to respond:

      [quote]Yep it is you! About my English spelling skills, yep, sorry about that, sometimes I get too speedy on the keyboard and do not bother to re-read what i wrote.[/quote]

      It demonstrates you have never heard of FIREFOX that has a built in Spell checker while you comment on this website.Of course, you also assume that we Brazilians cannot detect gross errors you make while spelling as well as commenting about our country.

      [quote]My sincere apologies! [/quote]

      Accepted

      [quote]Tainted”, maybe too strong a word though… you sound like the typical upper/middle middle class guy who has had the opportunity to study in a good school and is involved in some kind of business, probably something realted to import/export or production of goods for export, or better you are civil servant. In fact no, I go for the civil servant option.[/quote]

      Blew it again. Never went to any school, nor belong to any class. Ours is a class-less society.I hate civil servants (you must be a Brit).

      [quote]Anyway the fact that you insist on having some kind of specification on your “agenda” make me also think that you are one of the adept of those conspiration theories about foreigners coming in your beautiful country to steal what is worth stealing.[/quote]

      Conspiration theories? LMAO. The bloody foreigners can come and buy whatever they want, provided they have money and a legitimate visa. So if you want to save the Amazon forest, you can buy a part of it. Didn’t George Soros buy a huge piece of land in MT? Even your pal, Ch.c has a large piece of land in BA.

      [quote]C02 = Carbon dioxide a compound produce among other things by combustion of fossil fuels. Do you want more? [/quote]

      Nope. I know what CO2 is.

      [quote]There is such a thing as “analogical thinking” you know! But to finish there my intervention, I would add that I agree with you that some people react emotionally to numbers coming from that part of the world (25% of the area destroyed etc…). Those reactions and the type of sensational views that generate them have no place in a sound debate.[/quote]

      Actually, I am in favor of the suggestions of “A Brazilian”. The military has to be in command.Just to give you an idea, the last military President of Brasil did open the mining to poor miners (Garimpeiros) with military officers running the operation.It did work out well.I think “A Brazilian” is suggesting the same model. You can check it out with him

    • P. Lienard

      I meant “never be able to get rid…
      Cheers

    • P. Lienard

      Also I believe that you ever be able to get rid once and for all of such risk even if you were to ban all NGO’s, such struggle for nfluence would be expressing themselves in other forms/ways

    • P. Lienard

      Don’t you think that some NGO’s do a good job without any hidden agenda?
      I do agree that some NGO’s have been associated to some obscure funding bodies (Greenpeace at its beginning, for instance). But I do not think that I have seen any defintie proof of that. If indeed it is the case, case by case they should be revealed! That is what good journalism is about really. But making a huge amalgam and stating that NGO’s are the Nazis of our generation seems to be a bit excessive. First of all it trivialize what the Nazis were.

    • P. Lienard

      Ah! Finally an argument spelt out without anger. Ok but don’t you think that in a democracy with a free market economy you would be able to act also in the same way for reason that might be more “pro-social”. Minerals and other basic goods might be important but we do know that many other things count. Have a look at the market for water and all the it has brought in terms of concerns for functioning ecosystems in the USA. River, swamp etc. restoration is becoming a huge business. And the actions that are taken are understood as economically rational (that is, to invest $ bln in it) because of the huge cost that it would entails if it were not done (flooding, etc.).

    • A Brazilian

      Just a complement. As you know, people powerful enough [b]can[/b] influence military decisions of some countries and even convince the public opinion that action is needed for avoiding some “terrible evil”. That’s what those NGOs stand for, teenagers and youngsters seeking for a meaning in life financed by the money of those who pull the strings.

    • A Brazilian

      [quote]make me also think that you are one of the adept of those conspiration theories about foreigners coming in your beautiful country to steal what is worth stealing[/quote]

      That’s a bit too leftist for me. I know that certain people with money, from many countries, are interested not in the forest, but in the mineral wealth underneath its soil and other things. That’s not the same as saying that other countries are interested in it, but saying that some people are, and with their money they can finance/influence/pay others for “protecting” their profit.

      That’s it. It’s [b]not[/b] a conspiracy from other countries, but just a very few people in those countries doing what they always do: Business. It’s all about money, it always was (even during the colonization time) and always will be.

    • P. Lienard

      I had a good laugh there! Congrats!

    • A Brazilian

      Idiots
      I am of the opinion that we should fill the Amazon with secret military bases while exploring its richness. Let’s explore it before someone else does it! We all know how Europeans and Americans are grasshoper-like, they would consume it in no-time for their machines of death. Let’a consume it before they feel compelled to do it!

      NGOs are the Nazis of our generation.

    • P. Lienard

      So I guess Joao that you are not going to respond beside a couple of abuse here or there (other article)
      All right then. Shame as it could have helped me understand what are your qualms about having people from outside taking an interest in your “splendid” country. And by the way “irony” is not your strength! Neither is it for ch.c. but this might be already a bit too complex for you to grasp. Let’s see how far this is going to go.
      As ever

    • João da Silva

      Llyod Cata
      [quote]BETTER A BENEVOLENT DICTATOR THAN A CORRUPT DEMOCRAT
      ******************************************************* ****** (anon) [/quote]

      Are you talking about Kofi Anon? I am kind of “Lost”

    • Lloyd Cata

      Colonialism, Nationalism, Socialism, Capitalism, Totalitarianism, Fascism, Communism, & Greed
      *************************************************************
      BETTER A BENEVOLENT DICTATOR THAN A CORRUPT DEMOCRAT
      ************************************************************* (anon)

      …and the worst was Greed. Greed forces people to dehumanize and disregard the lives and situation of others. It has no allegiance. It has no ideology. It has no emotion or passion. It exists for the sole purpose of possession; to own more for the sake of being able to own more.

      Of the Seven Sins, Brazil stands before the altar of Greed. All of the other forms share, even if only crumbs. Greed makes you pay for the crumbs!

    • Lienard

      All right let’s try to respond. Yep it is you! About my English spelling skills, yep, sorry about that, sometimes I get too speedy on the keyboard and do not bother to re-read what i wrote. My sincere apologies! About the Portuguese bit, yep again, I am fluent, read and write. Though to be honest I need some practice to regain a full-blown fluency. One more thing before answering your other question with more contents, I worked in Brazil for some times and you can count my sojourns in terms of years, not months and I entertain several sustained conversations with Brazilian intellectuals. I have trained myself in a Brazilian University for soem time and in the field, in the forest
      Now the core of the matter.
      “What pisses me off is the fact that the bloody foreigners who have never come to Brasil or the ones who have just gone to Fortaleza consider themselves as experts on Brasil and give unsolicited advice” if that is not a bit tainted with some nationalism cum xenophobia, I do not understand anything then. Please you should acknowledge that some of the best experts on the ecology of the various ecotypes of forest you find in Brazil are bloody foreigners” and that they are working in concert with their Brazilian colleagues and that they have a pretty harmonized discourse on what is becoming of the Amazonian forest or the Mata Atlantica, not gloomy, for sure, but not complacent either.
      “Tainted”, maybe too strong a word though… you sound like the typical upper/middle middle class guy who has had the opportunity to study in a good school and is involved in some kind of business, probably something realted to import/export or production of goods for export, or better you are civil servant. In fact no, I go for the civil servant option. BTW are you professo of some sort? If I am wrong, display my stupidity in the eyes of everyone. I do not like stereotyping too much but when I read your nervous reaction, I could not avoid doing it. Anyway the fact that you insist on having some kind of specification on your “agenda” make me also think that you are one of the adept of those conspiration theories about foreigners coming in your beautiful country to steal what is worth stealing. But whatever, it would be too long to go into detail to explain the logics behind all that.
      C02 = Carbon dioxide a compound produce among other things by combustion of fossil fuels. Do you want more?
      Take care and do not forget, dialogue is the essence of democracy. Getting annoyed at other who share their thought even though they might not have a full knowledge of a situation might not be a very clever reaction.Furthermore, it happens that sometimes someone who is not fully knowledgeable of a situation might nevertheless have a very good insight into some of the problems engendering that situation. There is such a thing as “analogical thinking” you know! But to finish there my intervention, I would add that I agree with you that some people react emotionally to numbers coming from that part of the world (25% of the area destroyed etc…). Those reactions and the type of sensational views that generate them have no place in a sound debate.
      Cheerio

    • Gringo

      The article is trying to pressure richer countries to adhere to drastic CO2 reduction targets, which will never happen. The US will not reduce anything and China, well…. China is China. 40% of global Co2 emissions come from these two nations. So, we can pretty much count on the globe getting hotter. Not good news for anyone and not good news for the Amazon.
      As for À¢€œon the groundÀ¢€Â in the Amazon, 80 percent of the destruction is illegal according to the MMAÀ¢€™s very own figures and that will not change any time in the future. Actually how the hell can it change? The government of Brazil canÀ¢€™t control the violence in some of the most important cities in the nation, what makes ANYONE think theyÀ¢€™ll be able to curtail an illegal industry in the middle of nowhere? You think Rio and SP are violent? Spend some time in Para.
      The Amazon is still fairly healthy (outside of Para and Mato Grosso), but this has little to do with conservation efforts and more to do with the size of this biome and the fact that Brazil ignored this region until very (relatively speaking) recently. If Brazil had paid as much attention to the Amazon as it had to the Mata Atlantica rainforest over the last 300 years then I imagine it would be in about the same state as the Mata Atlantica Rainforest, today. Almost none existent.
      As for fear monger and blaming GRINGOS for everything, well this is well ingrained in Latin Cultural memes. We foreigners tend to laugh off these myths and rumours, but make no mistake about it, Brazilians take them very seriously. The fact that they fear probably the only community that could possibly help, to me, signs the fate of the forest. But not for a while I reckon, 2030? Maybe….

    • ch.c.

      “Chocolat S h i t. ”
      Ohhhhh how good is your education.

      1) Since when is Cocoa grown with Brazilian shit ??????
      2) And at least this Chocolate shit produced by Swiss, is sold ALL over the world….at a big premium price when comparedi to the Brazilian Chocolate Shit….no one in the world want….even at a steep discount.

      You see even Swiss Chocolate Shit is acclaimed worldwide despite we dont grow 1 Cocoa tree. You should produce more cocoa, so that price will come down….and our profit margin will go even higher. That is the Brazilian dilemna. You can produce only BASIC commodities and have no idea how to add value. Just look at your sugacane production : over 500 millions tons produced generating a loss for every ton produced. But you are so smart that you will continue expanding your production. Even doubling, tripling or quadrupling it within the next several years. And Brazil is so developed in technology that they harvest well over 60 % of these 500 millions tons…manually, while Australia harvests their sugarcane 100 % mechanically…..since 1979 or 28 years ago.

      SIMPLE PROOFS OF HOW BACKWARD BRAZIL IS !

      Even more so when comparing Brazil and my country total exports and imports.
      Despite we have only a population of 7,5 millions and Brazil 190 millions or so, my country export/import MORE OR LESS than the whole of Brazil.
      Do that on a per capaita basis and we beat you by a ratio of around 25 to 1.
      Meaning that even if you double or triple again your total export/import in the nedxt decade or so, the ratio will remain at 25 to 2 or 25 to 3….provided we dont grow at all.

      Conclusion : even in 3 decades you wont come close.

    • João da Silva

      Lienard
      [quote]Now that resources are not spread as evenly as in European country, “no doubt about that” and that was one of my main angle to question the first commentator’s position. Just that! And about thge nationalism bit”, indeed the type of blunt reaction as in the first comment is a typical reaction in which you can feel that the person behing it has an agenda tainted with a tiny bit of nationalism.[/quote]

      By saying “that was one of my main angle to question the first commentator’s position”, you mean me. Please confirm.

      [quote]Just that! And about thge nationalism bit”, indeed the type of blunt reaction as in the first comment is a typical reaction in which you can feel that the person behing it has an agenda tainted with a tiny bit of nationalism[/quote]

      You should really improve your spelling skill in English. However, what agenda tainted do you think I have? Please explain.

      [quote]I am certain that he sees the buying of land by foreign companies or individuals as land grabbing and that some law should prohibit it.[/quote]

      How come you are so certain? Prove.

      [quote]regardless to the fact that the reason might be because of an irrational international market for the CO2, he would feel that it would somewhat be an “invasion” and a threat to Brazil’s national security.[/quote]

      What exactly is CO2.Explain.

      Lienard, you give me an impression that you are trying to “divide and rule”. Just remember that we have good American, British and SWISS allies.You my friend, is a citizen of the Evil Empire”. I wonder if you read a little bit of Portuguese and what your nationality is.

    • Lienard

      And I do somewhat agree with Jo’s point that that paranoia about foreigners coming and grabbing resources, land, genetic materials (“biopirataria”, creations of commercial/political “empires” in the Amazonas etc.) has been too often used for political purposes by various segments in the political landscape, to such an extent that even among very educated and intelligent people those arguments linger as half-truths in the background of many conversations.

    • jo

      amazon is in trouble
      My favorite myth in brazil is how the bad gringos (mcdonalds for exp) are eating away at the rain forest…lula has helped propagate this lie while allowing millions of acres of ew destruction by rich cattle owners and poor MST types….brazil must take responsibility for “its” land and stop the destruction from within first before worrying about rich pollution somewhere esle!

    • Lienard

      Ch,C, you haven’t read properly what I wrote
      I do not criticize the vew that in Brazil riches are not spread too evenly across the society. It seems to me that I claimed the opposite. What i meant is if you copmpare, for instance the industrial, agricultural and “intellectual” outputs of a country like Ethiopia or even Kenya to the Brasilian ones, or if you compare their rate of literacy or their percentage of middle class, then you have another picture. Now that resources are not spread as evenly as in European country, “no doubt about that” and that was one of my main angle to question the first commentator’s position. Just that! And about thge nationalism bit”, indeed the type of blunt reaction as in the first comment is a typical reaction in which you can feel that the person behing it has an agenda tainted with a tiny bit of nationalism. I am certain that he sees the buying of land by foreign companies or individuals as land grabbing and that some law should prohibit it. He probably wants to keep a “captive market” that might suits his needs and to avoid being exposed to an actual market economy (which could mean that for instance if a conservation group decide to invest in protecting a forest standing because it finds it more economically sound, regardless to the fact that the reason might be because of an irrational international market for the CO2, he would feel that it would somewhat be an “invasion” and a threat to Brazil’s national security. I have had that kind of discourse so often with a certain type of Brasilian intellectuals or business men. That is in a nutshell what I meant.
      Cheerio

    • Eduardo

      Did you know that ONE catlle pollutes far more than ONE car due to the methane emission ?
      Laugh..Laugh..Laugh…Imagine you making Chocolat S h i t.
      Laugh..Laugh..Laugh…

    • ch.c.

      To P. Lienard !
      ” in terms of production, Brazil seems to be indeed among the first world. No doubt about that.”

      – Do your maths in per capita.
      – And if you are indeed among the first world, please then explain why 20 % of the population cant afford the 2300 calories…..per day. You should rather have doubts on your own statement of………no doubt about that.

      Did you know that based upon your GDP per capita, Brazil has the WORLD RECORD OF POVERTY RATE ???????????
      Sadly no doubt about that. And if wrong please name the countries with similar or higher GDP per capita where 20 % of the population cant afford 2300 calories…per day.

      Making things far worse, as I said, you prefer to export food rather than feeding your own society first.

      What type of Nationalism is that ?????
      LAUGH….LAUGH….LAUGH….

    • P. Lienard

      Dr
      Of course not, in terms of production, Brazil seems to be indeed among the first world. No doubt about that. Ont thing though, you DO NOT have many decent and honest politicians. To say the opposite is just a plain lie. You do have politicians who are mainly catering for segments of population> Money you shouldn’t have as it wouldn’t go to the people who deserve it, that is, the people who would keep the forest standing (por falta de nao ter nehuma otra oportunidade realmente mas eles poderia ganhar alguns dinheiro nessa situacao). Anyway the main critique is not about using your forest but it is basically to leave it to the use o a few well connected people (t least in its major and essential part). There are poepl out there doing a good job… Brasileiros!, Yes and they are the only one not getting any help from the federal states to exploit forest areas.. why? I do not know but clearly Brazil has still to understand what a free market economy means and accept that the land belongs to who owns the land and do a good use of it in a market where everyone stand on the same foot. Nationalism has been and is still a huge problem of Brazil!

    • ch.c.

      “Now that CPMF is going to be approved and Millions of Reais are going to enter….” ??????
      But Joao….Joao…..this is NOT A NEW TAX !!!!!!
      Thus you should be already rich !
      Arent you ??????

      And why dont you re-read Lula many statements : Amazon is Yours, therefore foreigners should not interfere. So why should we pay ? dont you remember what I wrote on that subject MORE than once ? None of the deforestation is done by foreigners. 100 % by Brazilians. And when foreigners buy some land, it is ALREADY deforested.
      Yessssss Please keep the Amazon as you wish, and pay or dont pay for it.

      Quite strange that you want a carbon credit when you pollute so much.

      On top of that, you have around 200 millions cattles ! right ?
      Did you know that ONE catlle pollutes far more than ONE car due to the methane emission ?

      Of course, not a word on that subject in Brazil and on purpose ! guess why ! You want to get carbon credit…..not pay for what you pollute !

      And a true news, in my country. Starting next month, January 2008, the polluting industries will have to pay CHF 12.- per ton of pollution, amount to be doubled and tripled in the not too distant future.
      And Nooooooo…….no money will be paid to Brazil…..dont get excieted.
      Every citizen will get a CREDIT of CHF 16.- annually in their healthcare bill ….Credit also to be increased regularly!!!!!!!
      True story.

    • João da Silva

      Brazil Needs Help of the Rich to Stop Amazon’s Destruction
      We are already extremely rich. Things are going great for us. Now that CPMF is going to be approved and Millions of Reais are going to enter the coffer of our government, why do we need the help of other countries? We are producing plenty of Ethanol, have found huge oil reserves, got honest and hardworking politicians, our “Bolsa Familia” is keeping everyone fed and on top of it everybody is making money on BOVESPA.

      In a nutshell, we can help other nations to get rich and have the know-how. So stop bitching about these idiots who complain about the “Amazon being destroyed”. The Amazon is well,hale and healthy. What pisses me off is the fact that the bloody foreigners who have never come to Brasil or the ones who have just gone to Fortaleza consider themselves as experts on Brasil and give unsolicited advice.

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