British Officers Who Killed Brazilian by Mistake Won’t Be Punished

    Brazilian electrician Jean Charles de Menezes was killed by British police

    Brazilian electrician Jean Charles de Menezes was killed by British police Eleven British police officers involved in the fatal shooting of a Brazilian man wrongly suspected of being a suicide bomber will not face disciplinary action. The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) said the officers would not face a police tribunal over the killing of Jean Charles de Menezes, on July 22nd, 2005.

    Police officers, believing the 27-year-old Brazilian electrician to be a suicide bomber, shot him seven times in the head after he boarded a London underground train.

    The shooting came amid high tension in the capital over the threat of suicide attacks. Just 15 days earlier, four British Islamists had blown themselves up on underground trains and a bus, killing 52 people and wounding hundreds.

    The De Menezes family issued a statement saying it was "gravely disappointed" at the decision.

    "The families are given no relief to their agony, grief and anxiety caused by their lack of access to all the evidence …"

    The Metropolitan Police have apologized for the killing.

    IPCC chairman Nick Hardwick said he had concluded there was "no realistic prospect of disciplinary charges being upheld against any of the firearms or surveillance officers involved."

    He said he had reached the decision "on the basis of the evidence I have available to me now or any development that might reasonably be foreseen".

    Last July, prosecutors said no police officer would face criminal charges over the shooting. The IPCC said it had not made any decision on disciplinary action against the four commanders and tactical advisors involved in the botched operation.

    It was reserving that decision until after a court case due to start in October in which London's Metropolitan Police faces a corporate prosecution under health and safety laws

    Mercopress

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    • Show Comments (39)

    • Urariano Mota

      The killing of Jean Charles de Menezes
      I’m a Brazilian writer and journalist. Look at please “To die by mistake” in http://www.wrp.org.uk/news/324

    • Ric

      CouldnÀ‚´t have been too subtle or you wouldnÀ‚´t have picked up on it.

    • hummingbird

      One aspect of this *intended* killing of JC de Menezes (not a mistake as claimed) which is overlooked is that it was carried out by British police …the same police who work for the same government who strut around the world telling other governments how to run their countries and societies, and if they don’t bend over they are quickly invaded and deposed.

      We know that Brazilian police and death squads are responsible for murdering many Brazilians each year – and that is appalling – but I can’t remember the last time any Brazilian politician came to London to give us advice to the public liar Tony Baloney Blair on how to run government.

      There is a subtle irony in all of this.

    • bo

      Abe Razillion Frother…
      it’s laughable when you try and debate with Pinga, you show your true ignorance.

    • A brazilian

      JoÀƒ£o Pinga
      You aren’t capable of producing any rational argument, so fuck you! I don’t recognize you as a worthy opponent in this debate.

    • João Pinga

      [quote]I cited the atomic bombs as a reference to your classification of brazilians as “savages”. I showed you, and you didn’t see it due to your lack of cognitive skills, that there are far greater savages out there, especially the so called “First World” nations, who would not hesitate in committing mass murder. Are you capable of contextualizing information? [b]Who the f**k cares where you are from?[/b][/quote]

      CLASSIC.

      No need for further comment. Just Brilliant!

    • João Pinga

      After all your frothing at the mouth hysterics, you obviously missed a crucial point. LetÀ‚´s replayÀ¢€¦..

      [quote]I will give you a hint: the topic you brought up was about brazilians being savages[/quote]

      No, A Brazilian, you retarded monosynaptic knuckle-dragging single celled evolutionary rejected foolÀ¢€¦I did not bring up a topic, I said:
      [i]
      “You see A Brazilian, this is why you and your ilk will forever be considered barbaric savages.”[/i]

      IÀ‚´ll repeat:

      [i]”You and your ILK”.[/i] I didnÀ¢€™t say Brazilians were as such, I said [b]you and your ILK.[/b] Meaning, and IÀ¢€™L L W R I T E R E A L L Y S L O W L Y H E R E:
      P E O P L E W H O T H I N K L I K E Y O U.

      Did that sink through you doyenne insecure Lilliputian? Sycophant to the growing group of the disheveled and disenfranchised? Grow a pair for Christ sakes. At the very least, give your skin some sun-down time so it can thicken up.

      [quote]YOU ARE DUMB! You are worst kind of stupid, because you not only don’t know you are stupid, but also think of yourself as awesomely gifted. YOU CAN’T UNDERSTAND THE F**KING TEXT[/quote]

      This is my favorite paragraph. I like the texture and tone of À¢€œyou are dumbÀ¢€Â. ItÀ¢€™s better with your bold highlights, but sorry, far be it for a mere hack of the English language to elicit such profound intense wisdom into three simple words. Poetic brilliance.

      I think you captured something quit elegant there.

      So, 111 dead. Big deal, eh!

    • A brazilian

      Reading your text is like reading a drunken man attempting to walk on a straight line because you have no objectivity. And you seem to have a special taste for personal attacks when everything else fails, giving a hint about the lowliness of your character.

      I cited the atomic bombs as a reference to your classification of brazilians as “savages”. I showed you, and you didn’t see it due to your lack of cognitive skills, that there are far greater savages out there, especially the so called “First World” nations, who would not hesitate in committing mass murder. Are you capable of contextualizing information? Who the fuck cares where you are from? Why would I cite atomic bombs released by the [b]US[/b] when the subject was about [b]England[/b] if it weren’t for making a point greater than “mine is better than yours”? [b]You can’t even understand what is written![/b]

      Those criminals you defend kill and destroy lives as if it were nothing. Would you forgive Osama Bin Laden if he accepted your preaching about the value of the human life? [b]They MUST pay for what they did, and for some jail is too bland of a punishment[/b].

      [quote]Back to the subject means including a diatribe on Iraq? You crack me up Curious George!. [/quote]

      [b]YOU ARE DUMB![/b] You are worst kind of stupid, because you not only don’t know you are stupid, but also think of yourself as awesomely gifted. [b]YOU CAN’T UNDERSTAND THE FUCKING TEXT![/b]

      I will give you a hint: the topic you brought up was about brazilians being savages, and I proved who the real savages are. Pay attention to the word “civilized”. I can’t do more than that, you should really complain to your mother, for not having selected a partner who could pass you better genes.

    • João Pinga

      correction
      [quote]who should and who should not be executed[/quote]

      Should read WHOM should and WHOM should not. My bad.

      But while IÀ‚´m here. A Brazilian you ignorant slut…

    • João Pinga

      A response to our monobrow brainiac
      [quote]For the “civilized” people like you only after a couple of nuclear bombs are dropped somewhere full of civilians and hundreds of thousands of women and childrenÀ¢€¦[/quote]

      What are you on about? IÀ¢€™m a proud maple syrup eating, dog-sled racing, hockey playing, igloo living well educated À¢€œHoserÀ¢€Â from the Canadian north (EH!), and I have nothing to do with nuclear bombs dropped on kids or women and whatever else you were rabbiting on about like a madman. Save your insecure treasure-trove of anti-American one-liners for Billy-Bob and his X-tian crusaders you beach educated monobrow simpleton.
      [quote]
      They didn’t ask anything, they just shot! Give up trying to justify the injustifiable![/quote]

      Iˢ۪m not justifying anything you illiterate fool. Youˢ۪re the one that thinks it is AOK for police to summarily execute 111 individuals, including LUCAS, who was just a thief and slated to be released the next day. I knew you didnˢ۪t know any details about Carandiru. You just saw blood shed in Brazil, shrugged, and went about your business picking up beer cans from the street.

      Now I know why Brazil is such a violent country. Folks like you donˢ۪t value life at all here, only lives lost abroad. Only Brazilians that have made it out of Brazil should be given a second thought, because I donˢ۪t see you shedding any tears for the 50,000 (your number) killed each and every year on Brazilian soil. That was my whole point, Poindexter. But rethinking it again, it is not that you valued Jean more, itˢ۪s that his death at the hands of gringos gives you a soapbox to point fingers at those that make you feel so inferior. Hmmmmm.

      Iˢ۪m sorry about what happened to Jean, really I am, and I donˢ۪t know how many times I have to say this here, but I am also saddened over many other Brazilian deaths, which you are not.

      The fact that you seem to have developed a litmus test for who should and who should not be executed (you seem to think executing SCUM is a fine marker) what is to stop others from doing the same only moving your marker a tad here or there? There are already posters here saying À¢€œfuck him, he was illegal À¢€“ big dealÀ¢€Â that sounds a lot like a harsher version of À¢€œfuck them, they were scum, big dealÀ¢€Â. Get my point? Stupid question I know. Of course you donÀ¢€™t.

      Since Jeanˢ۪s death 2 years ago over 100,000 (a simple calculation really) Brazilians have been killed in your lovely land of samba, but you seem to think thatˢ۪s just fine and there is no reason for concern. And you call other people pathetic? Thatˢ۪s just rich.

      [quote][b]But, back to the subject[/b], how giving eight shots in the head of a random stranger is “civilized”, a stranger that wasn’t wearing nor doing anything suspect? For those that kill by the thousands innocent people, [b]just like the “surgical strikes” in Iraq, that hit almost everyone but Saddam’s forces (what a piece of crap of technology was that!?), that even may seem reasonable[/b].[/quote]

      Back to the subject means including a diatribe on Iraq? You crack me up Curious George!.

      [quote]I am light years ahead from your capability of understanding.[/quote]

      Youˢ۪re dumber than a box of hammers, Poindexter, and everyone here knows it.

    • A brazilian

      JoÀƒ£o Pinga
      Pathethic, several times pathetic.

      For the “civilized” people like you only after a couple of nuclear bombs are dropped somewhere full of civilians and hundreds of thousands of women and children are killed [b]then, and only then, you will be considered “civilized”[/b]. I heard Iran is almost reaching your level of “civilization”, let’s just hope they drop a couple of bombs on Israel and then they will be just as civilized as you.

      But, back to the subject, how giving eight shots in the head of a random stranger is “civilized”, a stranger that wasn’t wearing nor doing anything suspect? For those that kill by the thousands innocent people, just like the “surgical strikes” in Iraq, that hit almost everyone but Saddam’s forces (what a piece of crap of technology was that!?), that even may seem reasonable.

      They were criminals in Carandiru, and they do what they do because they know idiots like you will argue later they shouldn’t be harmed. The criminals kill without thinking twice, and when the police does something they should be doing for far longer they are “savages”. [b]Fuck you![/b] Go defend peace to Osama Bin Laden and see if you will be successful!

      You are an idiot, the Lucas case was done by some criminals, mentally deranged individuals, just like those from Carandiru. What the hell does it have to do with the police shooting strangers just because they felt like doing it?

      I am light years ahead from your capability of understanding.

    • A brazilian

      They just shot!
      They didn’t ask anything, they just shot! Give up trying to justify the injustifiable! This was not some sick criminal, this was [b]the police[/b]!

    • all american

      Job well done by British Security Forces
      He was asked to stop!, .. he did not!!,… he was in the U.K. illegaly!!!…CASE CLOSED!!!!…….. One more example , of why Illegal Aliens in the U.K., and the U.S.A. ,is a issue of utmost National Security!!!!!…

    • João Pinga

      [quote]See the difference in the cases you cite and the English case. One is the police killing known criminals or killing innocent by accident when pursuing (illegally) known criminals, the other is the police executing people randomly.[/quote]

      You see A Brazilian, this is why you and your ilk will forever be considered barbaric savages. You think the execution of 111 people is OK because they broke the law (as do many in your nation: 10 years no charges is proof enough). Sure, there could have been one or two murderers in the pile of bodies after the police went in shooting, however what about Lucas de Almeida? I bet you donÀ‚´t know a single name of the deceased or their crimes. What a typical fucking IDIOT.

      I am very up to speed on the story of Carandiru, and the problems with prison rebellions that basically take place daily in Brazil. The world, for that matter, is pretty up to speed in general with Brazilˢ۪s penchant for outrageous violence. The French are certainly aware this year, the Church certainly knows what can happen to 73 year old nuns, and well, although we still donˢ۪t know the final body count yet Iˢ۪m sure it will make a few headlines after your highly skillful police pull of out of Complexo do Alemao. And on and on and on and on.

      We know how violent Brazilian society is, and your nonchalant attitude to the execution of 111 individuals is proof-pudding enough that your society has become habituated to barbarity. You scream how Brazil is so horribly misunderstood and so loving in one breathe, and then spit of the graves of 111 men you canˢ۪t be bothered learning about during the next. What a model citizen you are.

      But who says what crimes warrant execution? À¢€œLucas de AlmeidaÀ¢€Â, the name I mentioned, above was in Carandiru for THEFT only, and scheduled to be released the day after what every government in the world has called a À¢€˜MassacreÀ¢€Â. ItÀ¢€™s nice you wished him dead.

      [quote]Understanding well written text is part of what is expected from people willing to discuss.[/quote]

      There was nothing well written in your text, it was a confusing jumble of meandering thoughts and froathing. Itˢ۪s YOUR problem if your communications skills are wanting.

    • A brazilian

      See the difference in the cases you cite and the English case. One is the police killing known criminals or killing innocent by accident when pursuing (illegally) known criminals, the other is the police executing people randomly.

    • A brazilian

      [quote]One can understand the sharp increase in anti-americanism after understanding what’s going on inside brazil’s own terrority and on/close to it’s borders.[/quote]

      You pathetic little loser, are you being advised by your wife still, the expert in Brazil? Let me tell you one thing, anti-americanism is on the rise [b]on the whole world[/b], because your president is a motherfucker. The whole world hates you and recently even Putin compared your politics to those of the third Reich.

      Anti-americanism is such an easy word in the mouth of a redneck, that distribute around as if it were candy, when he is confronted with the bad and ugly truth. If I were English and I would pray a lot because with that police, that has absolutely no clue of what it is doing, only God will be able to defend them.

      [quote]So that makes it OK for them to be summarily executed by the police? [/quote]

      There’s a huge difference in executing a random Joe walking down the street for no good reason and to execute convicted criminals that would kill you if they had the chance. If you had any idea of what you are talking about then you would know that those poor “prisoners” executed were in a rebellion, they had taken over the prison and had hostages. What a pity those demons were killed, right? Fuck you. Those bastards are better in hell.

      Understanding well written text is part of what is expected from people willing to discuss. If your cognitive abilities aren’t up to the task then it’s your problem.

      [quote]And how many have the police in the UK killed since JoÀƒ£oÀ‚´s murder? How many have Brazilian police killed in the last two weeks? Everyone in the favelas are screaming that innocent community members are being killed, where are your crocodile tears for them?[/quote]

      You don’t know. You are just trying to impress the reader with random ideas without any data to back them up.

      [quote]Because you think that it happened in the first world, justice should…[/quote]

      It should [b]work[/b]! [b]Just work![/b] Are you so quick to brag about any little stupid thing, why did they fail so miserably? You are fed with stupidity from the media. Any little thing is used to “prove” how Brazil is bad and how the police is corrupt. And when something worse happens there it was just “an accident”, nevermind, it’s not important. If the same happened here, of a gringo being executed by the police and the justice refused to take measures against them, there would be a public outcry, a scandal of monumental proportions! It would the definitive proof there’s no justice and blah, blah blah. Now, when it’s in England… then it’s ok.

      If they were half as good as you think they are probably this wouldn’t have happened. Their “intelligence” must be worse and stupider than the american one. Stop believing in TV shows portraying them as intelligent heroes with the ultimate technology, I bet they are like a bunch of public employees who will need to fill out 5 forms in order to scratch their own asses.

    • João Pinga

      A Brazilian
      [quote]It’s around 50.000 a year, not “hundreds of thousands”. Where did you get this from?[/quote]

      Actually, I meant to write hundreds AND thousands, but thanks for clearing it up for me. 50,000 was a helluva lot more than I had planned on writing. But not surprising.

      [quote]By your logic any brazilian can be killed anywhere in England and that will be ok because “in Brazil is much worse”. One thing doesn’t justify the other. They screwed up, so they should pay for it. Oh, they didn’t? Why I don’t see texts full of hate about some “lawless” land where people are killed just as if they were dogs and nothing is done about it?
      [/quote]
      I donˢ۪t understand what you are on about. Try to be clearer. Lawless? Dogs? Any Brazilian anywhere in UK? Please, rewrite that jumbled mess and next time try to make a point.

      [quote]Your example about Carandiru is ridiculous, because that was a prison full of drug dealers, murderers and other scum.[/quote]

      So that makes it OK for them to be summarily executed by the police? Why even lock them up then? Why not after their sentencing shoot them on the spot and shrug it off? Your barbarity as À¢€œa BrazilianÀ¢€Â is shinning through, Poindexter. As much as I too am repulsed by the À¢€œscumÀ¢€Â as you so affectionately call those that control Brazil, shooting them on site like dogs doesnÀ¢€™t sit too well with me either. I strangely have this faith in society and humanity, although I must admit it is being tested and waning living in Brazil. It is understandable that Brazilians have a different attitude to barbaric and uncalled for acts of violence than most, given the realities in which your society has, albeit debatably, developed. IÀ¢€™m still trying to understand it. And I know you have no faith in the Justice system, because of what you have to go by in Brazil, so it is no wonder you think something even more sinister is a foot in the Jean Case. I get it.

      [quote]differently from the English case, and usually target known criminals. They don’t make mega operations around some random Joe.[/quote]

      And how many have the police in the UK killed since JoÀƒ£oÀ‚´s murder? How many have Brazilian police killed in the last two weeks? Everyone in the favelas are screaming that innocent community members are being killed, where are your crocodile tears for them?

      [quote]That case was the evidence of the level of incompetence and lack of prepare of those policemen, the so called “First World”.[/quote]

      No, you are the one with the double standards. Because you think that it happened in the first world, justice should some how work differently than it does in Brazil and when it does (apologies made, millions of dollars exchanged), youÀ¢€™re then incensed because the actual legal decision wasnÀ¢€™t to your liking and you now think it is some evil gringo plot. I love Brazil, you canÀ‚´t ask for a more surreal nation to poke fun at.

    • bo

      [quote]…
      written by A brazilian, 2007-05-15 04:21:00

      Where did you get this information from? It was proven through the cameras that he wasn’t running or acting paranoid, he simply walked into the subway and paid for the ticket just like everyone else. The cop was completely retarded and only God knows why he thought he looked “suspicious”.

      Death squads are a Rio problem, not a Brazil one. And the violence are located mostly in some areas. I have lived here all my life and never was robbed. Never. Get over this crap. [/quote]

      Ohhh, here we go again, it’s Rio that has a crime problem, not Brazil, n’eh Baghdad??

      [img]http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/southpark.jpg[/img]

    • bo

      [quote]…
      written by A brazilian, 2007-05-15 04:21:00

      And also, Menezes being on an expired visa and noticing people following him probably didn’t help his behavior any. If/when he noticed he was being followed, and if he thought it was the police, this definitely could’ve have contributed to paranoid behavior. But at the end of the day it was a time of terrorist attacks in London, people were being murdered with bombs. Not quite the case here in brazil with death squads now is it?

      Where did you get this information from? It was proven through the cameras that he wasn’t running or acting paranoid, he simply walked into the subway and paid for the ticket just like everyone else. The cop was completely retarded and only God knows why he thought he looked “suspicious”.

      Death squads are a Rio problem, not a Brazil one. And the violence are located mostly in some areas. I have lived here all my life and never was robbed. Never. Get over this crap. [/quote]

      Maybe he looked suspicious because he lived in the same apartment building as the actual terrorists?? You should start reading about your (most) lawless region of brazil, Foz de IguaÀƒ§u. One can understand the sharp increase in anti-americanism after understanding what’s going on inside brazil’s own terrority and on/close to it’s borders.

      http://video.msn.com/v/us/fv/msnbc/fv.htm??f=00&g=cbb0e64e-6288-4891-a139-3a956eb87753&p=hotvideo_m_edpicks&t=m5&rf=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17874369/&fg=

    • A brazilian

      [quote]Then started making up stories that he was running, wearing heavy clothes and acting weird when in fact that was 100% invention and it was the extreme opposite.[/quote]

      Incompetence in its purest form.

    • A brazilian

      [quote]And also, Menezes being on an expired visa and noticing people following him probably didn’t help his behavior any. If/when he noticed he was being followed, and if he thought it was the police, this definitely could’ve have contributed to paranoid behavior. But at the end of the day it was a time of terrorist attacks in London, people were being murdered with bombs. Not quite the case here in brazil with death squads now is it? [/quote]

      Where did you get this information from? It was proven through the cameras that he wasn’t [b]running[/b] or acting paranoid, he simply walked into the subway and paid for the ticket just like everyone else. The cop was completely retarded and only God knows why he thought he looked “suspicious”.

      Death squads are a Rio problem, not a Brazil one. And the violence are located mostly in some areas. I have lived here all my life and never was robbed. [b]Never[/b]. Get over this crap.

    • A brazilian

      [quote]Is a Brazilian killed abroad by mistake, more important to you than thousands of Brazilians killed yearly and VOLUNTARILY by your own police officers ???? [/quote]

      Idiot, the police don’t kill 50000 people. Most people die because of drug dealers and shootings between them and the police. Disinformation. You are just a sad loser inventing stuff.

      [quote]To whom then Brazil could/should give a lesson ????? [/quote]

      To the english officers that:

      – Killed some random stranger without any information about him at all;
      – The stranger wasn’t running;
      – The stranger wasn’t wearing any heavy clothes ([b]where the fuck would he hide a bomb!? In the ass!? That cop must be retarded![/b]);
      – They lied to the TV and were proved wrong because of the subway cameras;

      They are scum. The Visa crap means absolutely nothing because they shot someone in cold blood, someone that wasn’t even attempting anything or putting other’s lives at risk. They came with the Visa story right after the crime as a way of “justifying” the mistake, before all the truth could be found. Then started making up stories that he was running, wearing heavy clothes and acting weird when in fact that was 100% invention and it was the extreme opposite.

    • forrest allen brown

      little chance to live right
      dead right or dead rong you are still dead

      hope it is quick and you have made your piece with all

      just in belize there are 131 brazilians in jail on visa infractions

      honduras more than 80 .
      from panama up to mexico brazilians live in fear of deportation
      and the ones i talk to would rather live out side the law and take there chance than return to brasil
      and know what there chance is
      the last plane load of brazilians that the US sent back all went to the US embassy to protest that they were not given money to get back to there home state in brasil .
      but just dumped in SP

      it is very sad to me that one dies and the country cries but killed on your own soil you get your 15 secounds of fame and frogoten

    • Magnus Brasil

      You know why?
      Do you know why brasilians get “riled up” when a foreigner is involved in a crime in Brasil?
      The examples are in this site (especially the forum). Foreigners thing they can came in here and do whatever they want and then just bribe some street cop. it’s a disrespect. You are in Brasil? oh, just make shit and leave! I’m sure brasilians won’t act like that in a foreigner country, does not matter their legal status. And believe me, It’s NOT because of their “better” justice and laws…

    • ch.c.

      To A Brazilian and el al !!!!
      Is a Brazilian killed abroad by mistake, more important to you than thousands of Brazilians killed yearly and VOLUNTARILY by your own police officers ????

      Why dont you clean your own shit first`?

      Concerning the overall crime rate, just refer to an article published a while ago on this site where it stated that :
      assuming we give the base of 1 to UK, USA would get 4 and Brazil 28.

      Meaning that per 100’000 capita, the crime rate is 4 times higher in USA than in UK.
      But it also means that Brazil has a crime rate of 6,5 times higher than the USA, and 28 times higher than in the UK !!!!!!!!

      To whom then Brazil could/should give a lesson ?????

      Same question for your (IN)Justice, knowing that few of your criminals ever go to jail….especially if they have money or political connection !

      Very sad that in Brazil Justice and Injustice ministries ares controlled by the same corrupted politicians.

      Ohhh….you did not know that your Justice and Injustice depts……merged 200 years ago ??????

    • bo

      guest..
      I have an english friend that nearly was murdered two weeks ago. Thieves tried to enter his home and shot him in the process, the bullet hit a vein in his leg and he nearly bled to death. He has been staying with me since being released from the hospital and will return to england this wednesday. When he was shot his visa had expired by 1 month. Today we went to the federal police to pay his fine and asked them not to charge him for the days since he was shot as he was planning to return to england when he was shot. The brazilian federal police stated, and I quote, “he was here on an expired visa, if he wouldn’t have violated the visa he would’ve never been shot”.

      And ya know what, he’s right.

      And also, Menezes being on an expired visa and noticing people following him probably didn’t help his behavior any. If/when he noticed he was being followed, and if he thought it was the police, this definitely could’ve have contributed to paranoid behavior. But at the end of the day it was a time of terrorist attacks in London, people were being murdered with bombs. Not quite the case here in brazil with death squads now is it?

      Where is the indignation for them? Or do brazilians only get riled up when a foreigner is involved? Gol/Legacy ring any bells??

      Hang them gringo’s high!

    • A brazilian

      JoÀƒ£o Pinga
      [quote]hundreds of thousands in Brazil murdered each an every year?[/quote]

      It’s around 50.000 a year, not “hundreds of thousands”. Where did you get this from?

      By your logic any brazilian can be killed anywhere in England and that will be ok because “in Brazil is much worse”. One thing doesn’t justify the other. They screwed up, so they should pay for it. Oh, they didn’t? Why I don’t see texts full of hate about some “lawless” land where people are killed just as if they were dogs and nothing is done about it?

      Your example about Carandiru is ridiculous, because that was a prison full of drug dealers, murderers and other scum. Even the justice squads that eventually kill some innocent that happened to be in the wrong place in the wrong time, they are known to be illegal, differently from the English case, and usually target known criminals. They don’t make mega operations around some random Joe.

      That case was the evidence of the level of incompetence and lack of prepare of those policemen, the so called “First World”. And they even lied after to the TV saying he was wearing a heavy jacket, that was running. Later the subway cameras showed something completely different! If the same happened in Brazil with an English man it would be a HUGE scandal and texts and more texts full of hate would flow showing “how Brazil is bad place”, “how the cops are corrupt”, “they lied in their report!”, “liars!”.

      Double standards.

    • Guest

      joÀƒ£o pinga wrote:
      You can quote Nick Hardwickˢ۪s politically crafted apology 6 times to sundown, but it wonˢ۪t change the fact that if Jean werenˢ۪t there, he would not have been killed.

      You are right. If he was not there he would not have been killed, but he was there and his death had nothing to do with his status in the country.

      joÀƒ£o pinga wrote:
      “In this new culture of fear driven by the politically correct in the UK, Canada and in parts of the US, stating the obvious is at times tantamount to a hate crime if it offends the eggshell-like sensibilities of certain political/ advocacy groups.”

      Thank you for stating exactly what I was telling you, except you forgot to add Brazil. Some of the posts on this website has demonstrated this to me over and over again. Just go back and read some of them.

    • joão pinga

      You can quote Nick Hardwickˢ۪s politically crafted apology 6 times to sundown, but it wonˢ۪t change the fact that if Jean werenˢ۪t there, he would not have been killed.

      1 1 = 2.

      His Visa stated he should not have been there on this particular day, during this particular heightened climate of a terrorist attack.

      In this new culture of fear driven by the politically correct in the UK, Canada and in parts of the US, stating the obvious is at times tantamount to a hate crime if it offends the eggshell-like sensibilities of certain political/ advocacy groups. Immigration groups come to mind. Iˢ۪m sure Nickˢ۪s words were vetted by a number of bureaucrats and lawyers before being allowed uttered to avoid even further unwanted/unwarranted legal action or worse, condemnation from the loony-left. It doesnˢ۪t change the facts though, as painful and regrettable as they may be.

      Now can anyone else tell me what high profile murder case is being judged today in Brasil? Anyone? Buller?
      Anyone?

    • Guest

      Please choose your words carefully.

    • Guest

      joÀƒ£o pinga wrote:
      ” an illegal fleeing the police and paying too dearly a price for this misjudgment.”

      Nick Hardwick:
      “Referring to de Menezes in a written statement, Nick Hardwick, the head of the commission, said: “I cannot see anything he could or could not have consciously done differently that would have allowed him to escape. The grief and anger of his family is entirely understandable and, as I have been powerfully reminded, remains unassuaged.”

      The words above are not my words. Jean’s legal or illegal status would not have made a difference.

      joÀƒ£o pinga wrote:
      Do you not think Jean would be alive today if he honored his visa?

      Maybe, maybe not, what if he had honored his original visa returned to Brazil then went back to London legally, would that have made a difference. No, his status, legal or illegal would not have made a difference on that day.

      joÀƒ£o pinga wrote:
      “And I find it hypocritical and repugnant that a Brazilian killed abroad is seen as a more serious crime than the murder of hundreds and thousands of Brazilians inside Brazil each year.”

      Yes, I find it hypocritical and repugnant also especially since no one is doing anything to stop it. These victims are in no way less than any brazilian killed outside of Brazil. The pain felt by those left behind to mourn the loss of their love ones taken from them by violence is the same. I do not argue against this point, but these serious crimes continue to occur because impunity is king in Brazil.

      Please do not minimize Jean’s target death with the fact that he was in London illegally. His death was a target mistake.
      I agree with what you were trying to say but not with the way you said it. Please chose your words carefully.
      As you know, in Brazil, my status legal or illegal, would not make a difference. Thus, as a foreigner, I would, and I am sure all other foreigners would prefer to stay below the radar as much as possible. You are not the only Brazilian who read this blog. Once again impunity is king in Brazil.

    • ch.c.

      continued…….
      ….interesting too that for Brazil, a brazilian killed by mistake outside of the country…is worth more than thousands of brazilians, just as innocents as Menezes, but killed locally and NOT by mistake….by your own police forces !

      Hmmm…..strange isnt it ?????

    • ch.c.

      Hummmm….and what about……..
      ….the thousands of innocents brazilians killed by….the brazilian police……yearly ?

      Are they punished…..or protected and given impunity…by the brazilian (IN)Justice ?

      Never heard of the deaths squads…..in Brazil ?????

      They kill…..children and youths…..on a regular basis….MEANING…..DAILY !

    • joão pinga

      [quote]Do you not think Jean would be alive today if he honored his visa?[/quote]

      Guest, it is a very simple statement written above. If he honored his visa, he would be in Brazil. When his educational visa ended, he should have boarded a plane and returned home. It is just that simple. I donˢ۪t think I could have written it any clearer.

      [quote]As a foreigner who travels to Brazil legally, please do not paint a target on my back with your arguments about illegal brazilians abroard. They are much safer than in Brazil, and as you stated[/quote]

      How on earth am I painting a target on your back? Please explain. Thatˢ۪s a really bold statement and Iˢ۪d like to hear your logic, or lackthereof, behind it.

      btw, I LIVE legally in Brazil, and I stand by my statements. It was sad what happened to Jean, but if he left when his visa expired heˢ۪d be alive today; non? And I find it hypocritical and repugnant that a Brazilian killed abroad is seen as a more serious crime than the murder of hundreds and thousands of Brazilians inside Brazil each year.

      I donÀ¢€™t see how these simple observations will make your TRIPS to Brazil more dangerous, mmmmmmmkaaaayyyyÀ¢€¦

    • Guest

      written by joÀƒ£o pinga

      “Do you not think Jean would be alive today if he honored his visa?

      Certainly 8 shots to the head is far too high a price to pay for over staying oneÀ¢€™s welcome in another country, but the fact remains that if Jean could have provided for his family in Brazil, and if the conditions in Brazil were such that he didnÀ¢€™t need to illegally work in another nation to put food on the table for his Brazilian family, then he would indeed still be alive today. So, since weÀ¢€™re always looking for À¢€œroot causesÀ¢€Â in this new brave world of À¢€œduck and weave blameÀ¢€Â, I would say the failure of Brazil as a nation to provide the basics for its citizenry should be our main focus in this case and not the police.”

      Joao, I have a difficult time understanding your concept that Jean’s illegal status caused his death. Are you saying that if his status was legal his death would not be a tragedy? Everything that I have read about this case so far has indicated that irregardless of his legal or illegal status he would have died.

      Referring to de Menezes in a written statement, Nick Hardwick, the head of the commission, said: “I cannot see anything he could or could not have consciously done differently that would have allowed him to escape. The grief and anger of his family is entirely understandable and, as I have been powerfully reminded, remains unassuaged.”

      No where in that statement is there anything about Jean’s legal or illegal status. I agree with you that Brazil has a problem providing economically for its citizens thus forcing a number of them to migrate illegally and legally. This problem is not exclusive to Brazil. Although the United States takes ownership of September 11 and rightfully so since it took place on american soil, quite a number of the people who died that day were not american citizens and some of those who were immigated from somewhere else. Their legal or illegal status was never and will never be addressed and should not be addressed. Why not? Because it would not change the tragic events. What happened to Jean was a tragedy and his status was irrelevant.

      As a foreigner who travels to Brazil legally, please do not paint a target on my back with your arguments about illegal brazilians abroard. They are much safer than in Brazil, and as you stated:
      ” How many escaped justice in the Carandiru massacre that left 111 dead À¢€“ ALL shot by police? The answer to the last question is ALL OF THEM.”
      I do not want to be under the radar of brazilian police because of my status as a foreigner. As we all know, they have impunity.

    • forrest allen brown

      Do you think justice is only a first world concept?
      no but it is the only place you can get money for a dead person in the courts

      just ask OJ

    • bo

      Great post joÀƒ£o! Right on the mark there my friend.

    • joão pinga

      uhmmm
      Urariano, your delusional ranting in that one page manifesto for the workers party makes very little sense, maybe itÀ¢€™s the translation. Regardless, your regional (IÀ‚´m a dog in their eyes) low self esteem whining aside let me ask you a question.

      Do you not think Jean would be alive today if he honored his visa?

      Certainly 8 shots to the head is far too high a price to pay for over staying oneÀ¢€™s welcome in another country, but the fact remains that if Jean could have provided for his family in Brazil, and if the conditions in Brazil were such that he didnÀ¢€™t need to illegally work in another nation to put food on the table for his Brazilian family, then he would indeed still be alive today. So, since weÀ¢€™re always looking for À¢€œroot causesÀ¢€Â in this new brave world of À¢€œduck and weave blameÀ¢€Â, I would say the failure of Brazil as a nation to provide the basics for its citizenry should be our main focus in this case and not the police.

      Also, and more importantly, I donÀ¢€™t want the police second guessing their actions in the midst of a heightened terror alert when hundreds of lives can be affected because of what happened to an illegal fleeing the police and paying too dearly a price for this misjudgment. These elite squads are under enormous pressure and are trained to kill for good reason, especially in the UK where there is a sizable community looking to undermine that civilization from within. The last thing these elites need is to question their training in moments where À¢€œseconds can saveÀ¢€Â. ThatÀ¢€™s just the reality of it, and someone from Brazil should know this more than anyone where you too have a sizeable population within trying to usurp the loosely held control the state has. How many innocent Brazilians die the in cross fire when police enter favelas? Do you even care?

      IÀ¢€™ll echo two more popularly held sentiments. One, it was indeed a tragedy and MOST lives lost in this fashion is regrettable and the families do not deserve such anguish and heartbreak. I do feel for the JeanÀ‚´s family, truly I do, as I do for the families of ANYONE killed.

      That leads me to the second point which is; where the hell are your tears for the hundreds of thousands in Brazil murdered each an every year? Or for the foreigners killed in Brazil? Is JeanÀ¢€™s the only death that matters because it was at the hands of À¢€œnasty bigotedÀ¢€Â foreigners? How many escaped justice in the Carandiru massacre that left 111 dead À¢€“ ALL shot by police? The answer to the last question is ALL OF THEM.

      I could fill this page with stories of À¢€œcachinasÀ¢€Â and other horrific À¢€œmanchetesÀ¢€Â of brutal homicides carried out by police or ordered by rich businessmen in Brazil, and yet youÀ‚´ll only shed tears for Brazilians murdered abroad. This is a very dangerous way of valuing Brazilian life, comrade. You pine on claiming the horrible À¢€œfirst worldÀ¢€Â considers Latins to be beneath contempt and of little more value than dogs, yet it is people like you in Brazil that only value the lives of Brazilians that have fled the nation. It is only Brazilians killed abroad that draw such attention and condemnation and you remain silent for what happens to your compatriots across the street on a daily basis. Do you think justice is only a first world concept?

    • bo

      Tell me Urariano, can you understand the context in which the killing happened?? I’m not trying to justify what happened, but it’s certainly understandable the mistake they made. Afterall, Menezes was living in the same apartment building as some of the terrorists. He was a victim of circumstance….unfortunately.

      But what I’d like to know, how many articles have you written about brazilian death squads that have the sole intention of killing brazilians, “cleaning up the streets”, so to speak. Where is your indignation for them? As that appears to not only be more inexcusable, as they’re not making a “mistake”, they’re carrying out their intentions, and it also has happened and does happen right here in brazil, to brazilians, by brazilians.

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