Brazil Drafts Air Force Planes to Bring Order Back to Airports

    Brazilian President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva has ordered that the Brazilian Air Force (FAB) make 8 of its airplanes avalable to meet the demand of passengers who for the last three days have been delayed for hours waiting for their flight.

    The Air Force planes to be put at the disposal of the private airlines are two 40-seat Boeings 737-300, known as Sucatinha (little scraps), which are the back-up planes for Brazil’s Air Force 1; two Boeings 707, called Sucatões (big scraps), which also belong to the presidency and are kept in Rio. Four Embraer’s EMB 145 with 45 seats each, which normally stay in Brasí­lia, will also be used in the operation.

    Just hours before deciding to put the FAB planes at the airlines’ disposal Lula had said that the government would not be able to solve the problem of all passengers: "This is the only thing the Government can’t solve, because the Union doesn’t have an airline. is to meet the needs of all passengers. I only hope they don’t oversell tickets."
     
    Curiously the idea to use Air Force planes to try to solve the current chaos in the airports came out from a request Thursday night by congressmen who asked to use the official planes so they wouldn’t be stuck in the airports with all the other passengers.

    They ended up giving up the idea fearing a negative repercussion after their botched attempt to double their own salaries just last week.

    The note released by FAB tonight says: "The Air Force’ Social Communication Center reports that, by determination of His Excellency President of the Republic and as way to relieve the difficulties now being experienced by the commercial civilian aviation customers, all Brazilian Air Force’s available means of air transportation were emergencially committed to operate in a complementary manner to the airlines ability to meet the season’s high demand. The incurred expenses will integrally be compensated by the airlines."

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    • Show Comments (27)

    • andy murphy

      There is something in the air,Fernando. After years of bashing the Brazilian Military officers and enlisted men (Especially the FAB),the honorable Congresmen want them to save them from the utter choas that is prevailing in the Brazilian Airports. I can tell you something. FAB may have put 8 outdated airplanes at service (outdated,thanks to the civilian authorities who love to put the blame on the military folks),but the boys and girls in FAB will do an excellent job in transporting the passengeres from point A to B, with safety.

      What a pity,Joe Sharkey does not appreciate the competence of FAB nor the Brazilian Judiciary system.

    • realGIVPbusted

      Busted, Norm. Get a lawyer.

    • Rick

      Maybe IÀ‚´ve been too hard on you, but I just get the impression that there are a lot of hotshot jet pilots out there who wouldnÀ‚´t know the difference between West Palm and Lantana if the electronics went out. I get that impression by observing. And listening.

    • Norman Kemble

      rick
      tenha um dia agradÀƒ¡vel

    • Norman Kemble

      who gives
      ã‚’À¨¦‹À¥¼µã‚‹, À¨­¦À¦ˆ’する

    • Rick

      Quem dera.

    • Norman Kemble

      My wife has reminded me that I am jousting windmills with toothbrushes again, all for a friend on the east coast.

      If I remember someone said À¢€œjust because you are posting doesnÀ¢€™t mean you are communicating with meÀ¢€Â.

      So IÀ¢€™m going to listen to that one intelligent sentence that person has ever said on this board and go tilting off on another target.

      So, have fun, sit back in your Catalina house, dreaming of flying a 707 one last time all dressed up in your little captains uniform. And when you wake up head out predatorily late at night to spend your shill money from Embraer and your blood money from Excelaire.

    • Rick

      Thanks for the Happy New YearÀ‚´s (whatÀ‚´s the possessive for?), sorry IÀ‚´m late, itÀ‚´s two a.m. here. The buses stop running about midnight, thousands of people on the streets, no one stops for traffic lights after midnight because of the danger of being robbed, most of the taxi drivers seem drunk. Everyone just having a good time. Once I was walking in L.A. and a cop stops and says, whatÀ‚´s wrong? And I say, Nothing. Why? And he says, Well, you were walking….

      But here lots of people walk. The Kombis and vans are still running, though. Kombis are like the old VW buses but this last year they put water cooled, more powerful engines in them and they really go.

      I do feel good about myself. Especially after reading your post. But this whole thing of a few people using this blog to sort something out, not sure just what, vis-a-vis part 135 types, is getting boring. Then thereÀ‚´s the guy trying to sell a new avoidance system.

      Do yourself a favor, have the kid with the tug take you over to the big hangar and check your hot sections.

    • Norman Kemble

      Happy New Year’s rick
      Gee, rick you donˢ۪t sound like you are in Brazil anymore?? Whatˢ۪s up dude?? Get relocated by Embraer or Excelaire???

      You have come in on the end on my posts with Excelaire employees masquerading under false pretensions on this board trying to figure out who I really am. The only reason I posted those things was to show that I was legitimate.

      Being a pilot is what I DO,

      NOT who I am.

      But you donˢ۪t understand that because you are really talking about yourself. I hit the nail on the head and told everyone here how you act and who you are. You could be 7 feet tall but you are one of those guys who lacks self esteem and runs around telling people that you fly so that you can feel better about yourself.

      I forever see you as a strutting 5À¢€™4À¢€Â little man in his pathetic epaulets and airline hat trying to make everyone think that you are great and a BIG man because you are a PILOT and a CAPTAIN.

      Got to run, but you feel free to post tonight around midnight since you have nothing better to do and no one to go do it with. I imagine you donˢ۪t have any friends either.
      So post later at midnight so you can feel good about yourself like you did when you posted on Christmas.

    • Rick

      Real ranchers donÀ‚´t brag about how many acres or steers they have. I donÀ‚´t hear Brazilian pilots bragging about how many hours they have logged. Or assuring us that they are smart.

      Real Gee-whiz pilot. Punching holes in the IFR with one of PaulsenÀ‚´s Pet Projects. How did you feel when Cessna came out with a faster jet than the one you fly?

      Everyone knows that the fun is gone even from the airlines. For corporate types, itÀ‚´s wait, wait, wait for Mr. Big and lose your slot, check the bar to make sure his favorites are there, wait, wait, he shows up, kick the tire and light the fire.

      For taxi work, itÀ‚´s flying celebs that for all your hours and ratings put you on the same general level as the limo driver. Cancel IFR, five mile stright in over camelback, thereÀ‚´s the ranch over on the right, spend the night at the Radisson and phone home with an excuse why you canÀ‚´t get back for your daughterÀ‚´s birthday party.

      HowÀ‚´s your own personal plane doing?

    • Norman Kemble

      rick
      LOL
      That’s it???

      For all your eloquence thatˢ۪s it???

      How about addressing what your agenda is here???

      I notice you did not refute that you work for Embraer and that you are acquainted with and possibly working with Excelaire.

      I feel you are the guy that you described in your post above. I can see you now in your uniform with captainˢ۪s stripes and hat walking around all over the airports, parking lots, supermarkets, getting a paper just showing off to the world that you are a PILOT.

      And when not in uniform you are one of those loudmouth idiots spouting off in the bars, on the street corner and every time you meet someone new that you are a PILOT and a CAPTAIN blah, blah, blah blah, blahÀ¢€¦À¢€¦À¢€¦ Guess what? Real pilots know that your type is the worst pilots, know the least and make the most mistakes.

    • Rick

      The above comment may help readers understand why discerning pilots who have to spend much time in the pilotsÀ‚´ lounge should take their ear plugs with them and not leave them in the cockpit.

    • Norman Kemble

      Am I sooooooo smart??????
      1.I donˢ۪t work for Excelaire.
      2.I have more jet time than either pilot has total time.
      3.I donˢ۪t work for Excelaire.
      4.I have had an Initial International procedure course.
      5.I donˢ۪t work for Excelaire.
      6.I have had many recurrent International procedure courses.
      7.I donˢ۪t fly a Legacy.
      8.IÀ¢€™m not Joe Sharkey.
      9.I flew in Brazil and knew what I was doing.
      10.I donˢ۪t work for Excelaire.
      11.I donˢ۪t work for Embraer in Brazil like Rick. (Are you the one Excelaire deals with buying the Legacys??) (For those of you who donˢ۪t know Excelaire is buying at least 2 more Legacys from what Iˢ۪ve been told).
      12.I havenˢ۪t had any mid air collisions because I know what Iˢ۪m doing.
      13.I havenˢ۪t killed 154 innocent people
      14.I donˢ۪t work for Excelaire.
      15.If I was either pilot I would know enough to keep my mouth shut because I would know that I was part of the problem and not completely innocent as they are running around claiming.
      16.IÀ¢€™m not Joe Sharkey.
      17.Most importantly, I donˢ۪t work for Excelaire!!!
      18.IÀ¢€™m not Rick, ch.c, me, stormin Norman, norm the pilot or smokedsalmon

      BTW I donˢ۪t work for Excelaire!

      So am I sooooooo smart???? À¢€¦À¢€¦À¢€¦À¢€¦À¢€¦À¢€¦À¢€¦.

      YES I AM!

    • Scarlet

      Pilots
      Those poor pilots. I hope their employer is providing mental health care for them and their families.

    • smokedsalmon

      So Sad
      Oh Rick… you disappoint me. Perhaps you didn’t review the entire case. Worse yet, what on earth would posess you to assume for one second that that was my best shot???

      HAH!!!!!

      No, buddy, my best shots are being saved for those who can actually DO something to stop scam artists like those responsible for this horrible tragedy.

      Get off the board and go bottom fish for a 135 trip for Excelaire. Oh, and if I may, I’d like to take the liberty of suggesting that you change your screen name to LegacyWannabe? Mmmmmm… no…. wait…. I’ve got it… G3Replacement.

    • Rick

      ThatÀ‚´s your best shot against the company? That they lost a case over breach of contract where a pilot was supposed to stay longer than he did after receiving training?

      Before I looked it up, I thought, maybe they hire illegal aliens to paint their planes. Maybe they had a tax problem. Maybe unreported contracts with Evergreen. Or used wing bolts with no paper trail.

      What an anticlimax.

    • smokedsalmon

      Stinkin’ Stormin’ Norman
      Stormin’ Norman, you are doing some stinkin’ thinkin’. Why don’t you wrestle your head out of your ass and take a look at some perspectives that differ from yours. I’ll be the first to admit that I definitely do not agree with all that has been posted here, but in particular, I disagree with you and your small-minded, petty point of view.

      What can you possibly stand to gain from bashing an individual posting on this board unless you have a personal vendetta against said person? Why are you so blatantly ignoring some rather irrefutable facts? Seems to me that the combination of errors made by improperly trained Brazilian ATC; untrained pilots; and Excelaire’s failure to provide that training are what you should be looking at. The Brazilian ATC who was totally incapable of performing his job duties has already been raked quite thoroughly over the coals and has effectively been rendered nothing more than a charred, smoldering ruin of a man. By being forceably detained, the pilots have paid dearly for their lack of knowledge – plus they have to live with their new, and I’m sure, unwelcome, knowledge that they were in no way trained properly in international procedure and, as a result, now have to live with the deaths of 154 men, women and children on their conscience. Perhaps the most disgraceful of all is Excelaire Company of New York who completely refuses to accept responsibility for their part. WAKE UP PEOPLE. Excelaire seems to me to be one of those shifty, fly-by-night (pardon the pun) companies that any self-respecting professional pilot would refuse to fly for. Perhaps you, Stinkin Stormin Norman, might want to reference Supreme Court Justice Doyle’s decision rendered in Excelaire Service vs. Wolkiewicz (04-20047) for starters to get a feel for what kind of company Excelaire really is.

      Check out the facts, O Stinky One, before you just start flailing around and generally making a fool of yourself.

      I rest my case.

    • Norman Kemble

      What’s the problem
      FACT: 154 innocent people are DEAD.

      FACT: A captain of an aircraft is the CAPTAIN. He is not only in complete charge, but he must be totally knowledgeable, be fully trained and TOTALLY RESPONSIBLE for his actions, his crewsˢ۪ actions, the passengersˢ۪ actions and the aircraft itself. The First Officer is also responsible for his actions and if there are questions, particularly of the captain, to speak up.

      FACT: Aviation accidents occur because of error chains, not just one isolated incident by just one person.

      FACT: The preliminary NTSB report read without bias, preconceived notions, etc. contains many facts that show that there are enough faults on everyoneˢ۪s part to go around.

      FACT: Negligence on anyoneˢ۪s part, whether Brazil ATC, the military, crew, passengers, even Excelaire (if the pilots did not have the proper training) is still negligence.

      FACT: If this is truly an accident without negligence on anyoneˢ۪s part, then letˢ۪s do the right thing, learn from this, fix this and make sure it doesnˢ۪t happen again.

      FACT: Those that are at fault must be held accountable if it is negligence no matter who they are.

      Iˢ۪m confused at what part of this people donˢ۪t understand and/or accept???

    • Norman Kemble

      stormin norman
      Hey we can meet and I will show you what else I am besides smart.

    • Rick

      I have wondered what his agenda is. I have introduced a couple of pilots whose only experience was in military heavies to the joys of flying the jungle. Takes a lot of TLC no matter how good their attitudes are.

    • stormin norman

      What’s the real deal giv?
      So really special giv pilot, what’s your real goal here?

      Is it to show what a smart, special, know-it-all you think you are?

      Or are you trying to get these guys thrown in prison.

      Either way, we’re not impressed. But thanks for your contributions to our education. You’re sooooooo smart.

    • Forrest Allen Brown

      how about this
      Over 20 years ago they had a bunch of UFO
      in the belem and up the amazon river

      are they back !!!!!!!!

    • Norman Kemble

      International Flying Part 2
      Internationally (especially with the implementation of RVSM) it is next to impossible to fly at the wrong altitude for the wrong direction. Almost all countries will not allow this except for weather or fuel and even then it is fairly rare. In Canada the only time IÀ¢€™ve gotten a À¢€œwrongÀ¢€Â altitude for the direction is at FL450 (45000 feet) going westbound coming back from Europe and that was only because of weather. The fact is there are no airplanes up there, especially going eastbound to Europe, but those are the rules and they adhere to them; especially in countries where English is not the first language. The flying I did in Brazil (and granted the last time was 8 years ago before RVSM) you were still expected to fly the right altitude for the right direction. It was, and still is, the pilotÀ¢€™s responsibility to clarify when to comply with a change in altitude. I feel that Lepore and PaladinoÀ¢€™s asking a general À¢€œshould we stay at FL370À¢€Â before BRS gave the wrong impression to ATC, as well as to the pilots themselves. ATC said to À¢€œmaintainÀ¢€Â and probably the thinking was that they were going to have them stay at the right altitude and then be changed to the correct altitude for direction after BRS. The pilots erroneously assumed that that meant for the route after BRS flying at the wrong altitude for the direction of flight. You must at all times be exactly sure of what is going on, what to expect and what ATC expects. Asking non-specific questions or not clarifying routes, altitudes etc. when different then the rules is complacency at best. It is not only unprofessional; it is downright dangerous and reckless.

      One last thought on communication: When you have not been in contact with ATC for over an hour and have made numerous calls, you have to assume that you have lost communication and start to follow the lost communication procedures. Also, it is disingenuous to say that because you heard ATC that the radio was working perfectly. Maybe your receiver was working, but not your transmitter. Maybe both had failed. Maybe your receiver failed but not your transmitter. Just because you heard them doesnˢ۪t mean that you are communicating with ATC.

    • Norman Kemble

      Domestic flying Part I
      As I read the interview with the pilots, I am now more firmly convinced that everything that I have posted on this board is accurate. I feel that while Brazil ATC can be faulted, the pilots were not trained adequately in international procedures, and should also accept responsibility for their role in this tragedy.

      The 99% figure (that all airplanes file one altitude and fly another) that some have grasped onto is disingenuous at best. Thatˢ۪s lumping US domestic flying and international flying along with flying at the correct altitude for direction of flight. Itˢ۪s mixing apples and oranges. These two gentlemen have almost no international experience. In the US you can change your altitude from the filed altitude for many reasons: better winds, smoother ride, someone is already at that altitude and there is not the necessary distance in trail, weight of the airplane, temperature, etc. That is for the altitudes for the direction of travel, basically even altitudes westbound and odd altitudes eastbound. That is NOT true for flying the wrong altitude for the wrong direction, i.e. FL370 (37000) going westbound. It is basically impossible to get that clearance in the US below FL400 (40,000 feet). Above FL400 you can get that kind of clearance depending on traffic, workload, etc. The biggest reason for this is because there are very few airplanes flying at those levels. Also, when you are flying and you change direction from one direction even/odd altitude to a direction of odd/even altitude, you expect to change altitude to comply with RVSM.

    • Ric

      No, I donÀ‚´t read that well, but I am surprised at all the comments about making a few air force planes available. I thought everyone knew that the air force routinely runs its own modest passenger service between capitals. Naturally the military has priority but they help a lot of civilians with special needs. So they are ratcheting it up until the crisis has subsided. So what? And I have never been “sticked” in a Brazilian airport, as a passenger or as a pilot. Maybe itÀ‚´s because IÀ‚´m a poor reader, but I have no idea what that means.

    • ch.c.

      nothing will ever stop them….these crooks …..
      “Curiously the idea to use Air Force planes to try to solve the current chaos in the airports came out from a request Thursday night by congressmen who asked to use the official planes so they wouldn’t be stuck in the airports with all the other passengers.

      They ended up giving up the idea fearing a negative repercussion after their botched attempt to double their own salaries just last week “

      Who bets that their 91 % salary increase, rejected for the time being, will still end up with
      40 to 60 % increases ?
      Dont forget that their already 14 salaries increase the average, and that in the new request they ask for 15 salaries……plus all the perks !

      And of course the original idea for the planes use was ONLY for their own benefits, not for the benefits of all those sticked in the airports…..if you read well !!!!!!

    • Ric

      The overbooking issue: a few years ago the DAC put stiff fines on no-shows and last minute cancellations. Whatever happened to that program and why canÀ‚´t it be reinstated?

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