US Pilots Boycott Brazil’s Unfriendly Skies

    Denis Breslin, communications chairman of the Allied Pilots Association (APA), an entity that represents American Airlines 13,000 pilots has recommended to all US airmen to avoid flying over Brazil’s air space.

    Breslin argues that they risk being jailed and charged with murder in case of an accident. Captain Breslin told reporters that he is sickened by what is happening in Brazil to two of his colleagues.
       
    After the accident with Boeing 737 of Gol airline, which left 154 people dead, the pilots of a small jet, a Legacy, that was being taken from is factory in São José dos Campos, São Paulo, to the United States, had their American passports confiscated.

    The Brazilian Federal Police has also opened an investigation to determine whether they should be blamed for the September 29 accident in a desolate area of the Brazilian jungle.

    The two pilots are Joseph Lepore and Jan Paladin. Paladin used to work for American Airlines, but was furloughed after Sept. 11. He stil remains on the active pilots list though and might be called back to the airline company.

    Captain Sam Mayer, chairman of the APA, informed that several pilots who work for smaller companies are already avoiding Brazil when they can. Mayer says this is the best thing to do because "nobody wants to go to a place where after suffering an accident, you can end up in jail and have the keys thrown away."

    He calls it loathsome the idea that someone can be jailed just because he is doing his work. "No pilot starts the day thinking: "Today I’m going out to kill people," he said.

    A Brazilian prosecutor has asked a judge to indict the American pilots for manslaughter charging them with having provoked the accident between the Boeing and the Legacy.

    According to Mayer, in cases like that the procedure is very different in the US. In the United States, he says, an investigation would be started and the pilot might be sued, but he wouldn’t be arrested like that and charged with manslaughter before the inquiry is concluded.

    For him, what is happening in Brazil – the seizing of the passports and the manslaughter charge – is a complete absurd and creates a "terrible precedent."

    He is not suggesting, however, that he knows who is guilty of the accident: if the pilots or the Brazilian air controllers. "This is for the investigation to find out," he states.

    Joe Sharkey, the New York Times’ reporter who was aboard the Legacy plane when the collision happened says that he fears for the American pilots. He told during an interview with BBC radio’s The  World program that he felt hostility in the interrogation he, the pilots and the other passengers in the jet were subjected to. He was interrogated from late afternoon, on September 20, till early morning the next day.

    As an example of hostility he mentioned that he had to take a picture without his shirt so that the interrogators would have proof that he had not been "tortured" during the interrogation.

    Sharkey also lambasted some "populist" sections of the Brazilian press that portrayed the story as if the accident had been caused by "capitalists hanging around air space and killing 154 people."

    The Times reporter once again criticized the Brazilian air control especially in the Amazon region and revealed that he wanted to stay in Brazil a little longer but was urged to leave Brazil at once. "You haven’t been told yet that you are arrested, so you should leave today." And that’s what he did.

    Recall
     
    On September 12, more than two weeks before the Boeing-Legacy accident, the United States Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) ordered the recall of the same transponder model used in the Legacy involved in the crash.

    The device is manufactured by the American company Honeywell. The FAA has given 18 months for all such transponders to be fixed by the manufacturer.

    The failure in the equipment might be the explanation for the accident. Some investigators in Brazil have accused the American pilots of turning off the transponder this way preventing the Boeing and the Brazilian air control to detect the little jet. A working transponder would have prevented the collision between the two aircraft.

    The wives of both pilots arrived, this Saturday, October 7, in Rio de Janeiro, to visit their husband. Ellen Lepore, 41, and Melissa Paladin, 33, came from New York in an American Airlines flight. They went directly from the Tom Jobim International Airport to the  JW Marriott hotel, in Copacabana, where the pilots are staying, without talking to reporters.

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    • Show Comments (143)

    • Cibiki and Cataldo

      This is probably the most “it actually makes sense” kind of post I’ve seen on on this subject. Best part… I didn’t have to go digging through some weird web design to find it. Awesome! PLEASE keep posting new material!

      http://company.fm/Cibik-Cataldo-3158740.html

    • Nitin Barekere

      Looking for Embraer 170/175/190 Pilots
      If you are type rated on the above aircrafts send in your resumes to paramountairways@gmail.com

    • Jimmy

      Please disagree without generalizing about countries and the people in them
      It’s extremely disappointing to me to hear so many people criticizing “Brazilians” and “Americans” in such general terms. I’m an American living in Brazil and I like Brazilians and most like me. I want to get to know each Brazilian on his or her own terms and not resort to general attitudes Americans have about Brazilians, whether those attitudes are good or bad. Similarily, I hope that Brazilians want to get to know me as a person, regardless of what they think or my country in general or my government, or what an American journalist or American pilot or American whoever thinks about the air crash.

      I see too many posts disagreeing with another post, then going on to rant about “Brazilians” or “Americans”. Please stop. If you want to disagree with someone, fine, that is what this forum is for. But don’t resort to criticizing a whole nation of people, whether it be Brazilians or Americans, or lumping a person with an attitude you find classically “American” or “Brazilian” and then going on to say because one person has that classic Brazilian or American attitude, that it proves that all Brazlians or Americans have this attitude.

      Brazialins can be from Brazil and Americans from the USA, but we are independent people with our own thoughts, in fact. I hope we can all discuss this situation at the level of individual disagreement without resorting to alarmingly frequent general attacks on a nation of people. I personally want the investigation to go forward and see what it turns up.

      I like Brazilians and Americans, and want to deal with each one on his or her own terms as much as possible. I hope we can learn something from this horrible tragedy that will help all Brazilians, Americans and other countries’ people. Such a result is one that truly respects the deaths of so many people.

      Another result that would respect them is for Americans and Brazilians to strengthen, not weaken, our bonds to each other by celebrating our similarities and differences, while at the same time savoring our common humanity.

    • mat

      stay cool
      well, just to put things into perspective, the article states that the us pilots are now staying at the copacabana marriot, not in jail.

    • Boris

      Arrogance and unjustified superiority complex…
      There is a very unfortunate tendency in the United States to put itself and her citizens above and beyond the laws of sovereign countries. As a US citizen, I am ashamed of the PR trickery and unjust accusations against Brazilian authorities. My heart goes out to the families and friends of the victims. I hope that the responsible party is identified and that it would have to bear the full weight of legal and just punishment.

    • anonymous

      Just determined the facts…
      The ICAO (that’s ‘I’ for international, which the US FAA reconciled its rules to years ago) rules state that the order of precendence for a flight is filed flight plan, actual flight plan (as given during a departure clearance) and finally ATC instructions. ATC instructions have highest precedence, even over the filed plan. The rationale is that if you lose contact, and ATC had redirected you on a new heading, for example, they know what you are doing and how they can work other traffic around you.

      This isn’t a Brazilian vs. American thing. I object, as a pilot, to the rush to judgment in the media. If they did something wrong, then fine, let the investigation determine that. But media speculation only adds political pressure (often uninformed) to what should be an independent process.

      The purpose of having an impartial investigation is not only to sort out the facts so that the acccident can be looked at in retrospect. It is also so that recommendations can be made on ways to improve safety in the future, so these types of things don’t happen again.

      As for American imperialism having anything to do with this subject at all, I fail to see it. I hardly think it’s imperialistic when an American company goes to Brazil to buy a Brazilian made jet, of which there are many here in the US.

    • Costinha

      The Uncivilized Society of Assholes (USA)
      What irritates me the most is that pathetic À¢€œJohn WayneÀ¢€Â american attitude, À¢€œwe know you savages.À¢€Â

      I hope the motherfucker is burning in hell!

    • Airline Man

      Preliminary Report
      http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Colunas/0,,7272,00.html

      Mr Davis, the man with 000s of hours on 737-800s said:
      “if indeed the Legacy hit the GOL 738 at FL370 presumably that each A/C was flying at mach 0.78 then BOTH A/C would have practically been torn apart at the point of impact and BOTH A/C WOULD HAVE ENDED UP IN THE AMAZON JUNGLE AS TWISTED MANGLED PIECES”

      Try again Michael.

      They did hit. I fear it will turn out that 2 different ATC units directed both aircraft to FL370.

      BTW Mr Davies, are you a native English speaker?
      If you are, then frankly I’m surprised you can read or understand the Loadsheet I diligently prepare for you.
      You wouldn’t get through the written English test at any European airline I know of.

    • Polo

      They’re probably out sitting by a highway to wait and see a major bus crash, and hoping the driver would be American.-

    • Michael Davis

      YOO-HOO :….. JUSTICE ,EDDIE, JONY, AIRLINE MAN WHERE ARE YOU? Are you out there ………………..”WHOA NELLIE”; ……………… OLLIE , OLLIE ,OXEN ,FREE, LET’S SEE. YOU ARE NOT NOT TALKING SHIT NOW………….WHERE ART THOU!

    • Michael Davis

      Hey Where is everyone. Now that Brazil is stating that The Brazillian controllers were at fault THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING!!!! Where are you DUMB -ASSES who know absolutely NOTHING ABOUT AVIATION AND POSTED YOUR DUMB ASS OPINIONS ON THIS FORUM!!! NOT MAN ENOUGH TOO BACK UP YOUR TOUGH TALK!!!

    • Polo

      “…..ABSENCE OF PROOF DOES NOT MEAN PROOF OF ABSENCE…… “

      Maybe it does when it comes to your brain.
      Haven’t you joined Justice yet in giving ‘service’ to the favelas? They’ll show you what a maricon is the brazilian way…. I say it since you’re so fixated on assholes and maricones, you may as well go get some relief.
      FAVELAS – That’s the best way to win over new anti-imperialist recruits – and don’t forget to give them something extra special. Say Hi to Justice for me my dear Guest – and tell him to leave the kids alone.
      ———————————
      “unfortunately dead man do not talk…….”

      But idiots always do and always will. Now your co-idiots have gone and left you alone to spread the word of imbecility.
      —————————————————–
      arrrgggggg wrote:
      “WeÀ‚´ll sit back and wait for what you say after Brazil invents a rival to the infomation highway.”

      They already have it!
      It’s called the Hugo Chavez super info butthole…highway. And they’re lapping it all up like flies on shit.

    • arrgggggg

      À¢€œIf ATC’s can screw up (seemingly often) in USA, can anyone seriously doubt it would happen elsewhere?
      I just hope that whatever was wrong in the system that led to this gets fixed permanently.À¢€Â

      This is the point lost on our Che Guevera Marxist militants here. They would rather continue to fly unsafe skies and lynch two AmericanÀ¢€™s for the À¢€œanti-imperialist causeÀ¢€Â, then actually, factually, find out what happened. Sadly, Brazil is filled with mental midgets like this.

      BTW you anti-imperialist heavy weights, if you so hate globalization and US products, do us all a favour and unplug your computer and toss that TOOL of the imperialists Pigs out the window. WeÀ‚´ll sit back and wait for what you say after Brazil invents a rival to the infomation highway.

    • Guest

      LOL LOL LOL YOU’RE SO FUCKING WRONG MARICON
      I think you should at least try to get your information at the right places, where did you get those at the NYT ??
      perhaps FOX or who knows from the expert in Flight control , Aeronautical Engineer, John Sharkey…..
      THER WAS NO CONTACT WITH THE FLIGHT CONTROL CENTERS FROM YOUR TOP GUN ASSHOLES…. COMPRENDE
      MARICON…so , I see you ‘re learned some few new words today in Portuguese !!! LOL LOL you make me puke,
      unfortunately dead man do not talk…….we are going to shove the flight data recorder information down your ass , there is the unmistakable and irresponsabile actions of your fucking top gun boys……, it is justa pitty we are civilized enough there not to have your boys in orange jumpsuit behind bars waiting for trail, like you pretty much do here without doubt……the fact that nobody is saying anything else maricon is that everybody is sick of your childish babbling and bs…..ABSENCE OF PROOF DOES NOT MEAN PROOF OF ABSENCE……

    • jony

      reality check
      written by jony, 2006-10-17 01:46:14

      The reality of all is that “media circus” is everywhere in the world and certainly not any different in Brazil. Press leaks in most cases are done by incompetence or inexperience of an individual within a department rather than an orchestrated effort. Ironically, the same “media” quite often contributes to insure the transparence of the due process.There is plenty of bias nationalism to go aroundÀ¢€¦ without a doubt; The truth of the matter is that at this point of the investigation data-collecting phase, all the indicators are not so favorable to the small jet. The job of the government and international investigators is to go thru all the technical evidence available to reconstruct what really occurred on the skies above the Amazon forest. The Brazilian authorities have at their hands the SIVAM system, which has been in operation now for about 12 years. The following insert is a public information description about the SIVAM SYSTEM that by the way the US is very much familiar with, and hopefully it would bring accuracy and transparency into this tragic accident. À¢€œSIVAM infrastructure comprises three regional surveillance centers in Manaus, Porto Velho, Belem and a general coordination center in Brasilia. All centers have stations and servers to process incoming data from satellites, specially equipped aircraft, and ground sensors. The regionÀ¢€™s environmental data is delivered to the centers via a Network Systems of geostationary satellite, located above the equator. The transponder dedicated to SIVAM is in the satellite and the data derives from an array of 424 small aperture terminals with the Brazilian government planning to install 900 more terminals. The terminal sites allow personal computer (PC), telephone and fax access to the four centers in addition to transmitting data. Authorized users at the terminals can access a À¢€˜catalogÀ¢€™ of information products. The four centers receive and archives a steady stream of data to create the information products from SIVAM sensors, multisensor and earth observation satellites. As part of the SIVAM system is an upgraded satellite ground stations for the INPE (the Brazilian institute for space research). The earth observation satellites include the Landsat 7, SPOT 4, Radarsat, and ERS-1 and -2. Data also comes from three additional satellites: GOES, a weather satellite accompanied by three ground stations; TIROS, a polar orbiting satellite that provides weather and atmospheric data and includes a ground station in Manaus; and SCD-1, a Brazilian satellite that acquires data from ground stations, such as water levels and rainfall. Information from these satellites largely serves to monitor the AmazonÀ¢€™s rain forest environment, but it also can be accessed by the regionÀ¢€™s air traffic control.Twenty-five ground radar sites are linked to the Manaus center by a Comtech/Alcatel satcom system. Five sites that have Thomson CSF radars are integrated into the SIVAM network. In addition, Raytheon is supplying seven ASR-23 solid state, L-band, two-dimensional (azimuth and range) primary radars with integrated monopulse secondary radar, and seven stand-alone Condor Mk 2 monopulse secondary radars. They are 3D-capable to monitor aircraft that are not equipped with transponders. The radar sites, along with five additional sites, also serve as telecommunications centers, incorporating both VHF and UHF transceivers. The Raytheon VHF digital radios provide voice-only, and the Rohde and Schwarz UHF/VHF radios can transmit voice and/or data. They all transmit to Manaus via Comtech/Alcatel satcom. The Manaus air surveillance center is equipped with a “blended” ATC system, to make the centerÀ¢€™s addition to BrazilÀ¢€™s air traffic control as seamless as possible.À¢€Â

      Write comment

    • Polo

      arrrgggggg said:

      “So, I guess after the Pilots are freed from Rio, they will be able to sue each and every magazine that BLAMED them for the accident? ”

      I’d think they would want to get the F*** out of there pronto! LOL
      With the way people have been acting, I’d still say there’s a chance these two hapless pilots might get lynched…

      If ATC’s can screw up (seemingly often) in USA, can anyone seriously doubt it would happen elsewhere?
      I just hope that whatever was wrong in the system that led to this gets fixed permanently.

      The silence from the accusers that were here is deafening…

    • arrgggggg

      Lucy, you have thome splaining to do….
      I particularly like the line “The Brazilian official in charge of the probe said he will make immediate recommendations for changes in the way air traffic is handled in his country.” Now, this is the type of thing that follows a proper investigation, au contraire to what our knuckle-dragging cachaÀƒ§a receptacles here believe.

      Sorry Che Guevera fans, looks like there wonˢ۪t be any Americanˢ۪s hanging from trees in your future. I hope that that doesnˢ۪t spoil your day too much.

      Official: Pilots, controllers caused Brazilian crash
      BY BILL BLEYER
      Newsday Staff Writer

      October 16, 2006

      As the Canadian Transportation Safety Board finished retrieving information from three black boxes recovered from jets that collided over the Amazon jungle, the official who runs Brazil’s airports said the pilots of both planes and air traffic controllers all contributed to the deadly accident.

      Brig. JosÀƒ© Carlos Pereira, president of Infraero, the Brazilian government corporation responsible for running the nation’s commercial airports, told the newspaper O Globo that at least six people may have directly or indirectly caused the Sept. 29 collision: the four pilots of the two jets and two flight controllers. The crash killed 154.

      He did not specify what the pilots of Gol Airlines Flight 1907 pilots or controllers might have done wrong. But he has said previously the two Long Island pilots were flying at the wrong altitude and not the one specified in their flight plan. And he did not elaborate about the controllers, but they have come under increasing criticism for not diverting the Gol Boeing 737 out of the path of the Legacy after its location transponder did not operate properly and radio contact was lost with the jet for more than an hour before the impact.

      “It is obvious that it [the control tower] could have changed the plane direction, but what happened was not that simple,” Pereira said.

      John Cottreau, spokesman for the Canadian safety board, said Monday, “the downloading of the recordings was completed today” and the Brazilian officials who had come to Ottawa to oversee the process were heading home today.

      The Brazilian official in charge of the probe said he will make immediate recommendations for changes in the way air traffic is handled in his country. Col. Rufino AntÀƒ´nio da Silva Ferreira, chief of Brazil’s Division of Investigation and Prevention of Air Accidents and president of the commission investigating the collision, told Brazilian reporters Sunday in Ottawa that “there is always something that can be improved,” including the air traffic control system.

      He also was asked whether the voice recorder from the Legacy jet owned by ExcelAire of Ronkonkoma corroborated the statements by pilots Joseph Lepore, 42, of Bay Shore, and Jan Paladino, 34, of Westhampton Beach. In their depositions, they said they had been authorized by controllers to fly at 37,000 at the point of impact instead of the 36,000 feet specified in their flight plan. “The content only makes sense when it is cross-referenced with other information,” Ferreira said. “We don’t point out guilty parties. We find out the factors that contributed to the accident.”

      Canadian technicians transcribed the voice cockpit recorder on the Legacy and retrieved electronic flight data from that plane and the Gol Boeing over several days. The information on a fourth black box, the Gol’s cockpit voice recorder, has not been been heard because part of it was dislodged in the crash.

      Veja, a weekly Brazilian magazine, reported another possible cause. It said sources had pointed to a shift change in a control tower in Brasilia while the Legacy was experiencing problems. A spokesman for the Air Force told told Newsday the article is “conjecture.”

      Staff correspondent Martin C. Evans contributed to this story from BrasÀƒ­lia.

    • Polo

      I hear the sound of sudden ego decompression….

      Maybe it’s time for the brazilian whiney bitches to pack up and go home. I guess there’s not going to be a lynching after all. How boring, huh?!! How’s the futbol going anyway?

      I guess Justice and his “Guest” are busy consoling each other by now. Waaaaaah!

      Hey, guys, be on the lookout! There’s some imperialist action going on right now – appears Portugal wants to re-colonize Brazil and make you all speak English now and draft all your best futbol players into the imperial futbol teams!

    • agggghhhhhhhh

      another good article
      http://oglobo.globo.com/pais/mat/2006/10/17/286127481.asp

      Ahh, hereÀ¢€™s a good article À¢€“ not only is everyone starting to backpeddle now about the cause of the accident (it has gone from GROSS NEGLIGENCE on part of the pilots, to a misunderstanding on the part of ATC), but also the Federal Police are now PISSED that Aeronautica has been withholding vital information for over 2 weeks from the investigation. This is the first time that investigators heard THERE WAS COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE LEGACY AND THE TOWERS. After every media rag and newscast, for 2 weeks stated that ATC tried UNSUCCESFULLY to contact the jet. RIGHT!

      So, I guess after the Pilots are freed from Rio, they will be able to sue each and every magazine that BLAMED them for the accident? Defamation of Character maybe? What was on the cap of last weekÀ¢€™s IstoÀƒ©? Me thinks everyone was right on the money to ask for patients before blaming these pilots, and because Brazil and most chest pounding Yankee-hating Brazilians WOUDN`T, Brazil has just reinforced its nasty sterotype: INCOMPETENT.

    • agggghhhhhhhh

      Good thing you Brazilians didnÀ‚´t hang these pilots wouldnÀ‚´t you say?
      Well well well.

      It looks like JUSTINE and his little sissy biotch ass-chomper À¢€œBABAcaÀ¢€Â have been strangely quiet over the last couple of days. It wouldnÀ¢€™t happen to be because of NEW developments in the Legacy/ Boeing air investigation WOULD IT! And, there is MUCH MORE TO COME. Good thing the authorities FINALLY got around to investigating other aspects of this crash instead of trying to throw the Legacy Pilots in a vat of water to see if they would float!!! WouldnÀ¢€™t you say?

      For those who canÀ‚´t read PORK n CHEESE, the article below states that the pilots MADE CONTACT (proof, because it was RECORDED) with ATC (funny how the towers repeatedly stated NO CONTACT WAS MADE) and asked if they ” could reduce their altitude” or “should they maintain their altitude” – the controller responds YES, MAINTAIN.

      ——-
      Piloto do Legacy fez contato com controlador de vÀƒ´o

      Uma gravaÀƒ§Àƒ£o divulgada pela AeronÀƒ¡utica revela que o piloto do jato Legacy que colidiu com o Boeing da Gol, no Àƒºltimo dia 29, conseguiu se comunicar com os controladores de vÀƒ´o do Cindacta-1, em BrasÀƒ­lia, quatro minutos antes de fazer a mudanÀƒ§a de altitude prevista no plano de vÀƒ´o. Segundo a GloboNews, no contato com a torre, Joseph Lepore pergunta ao controlador se pode descer ou se deve manter a altitude. Neste momento o jato estava a 55 quilÀƒ´metros do ponto onde deveria descer dos 37 mil pÀƒ©s para 36 mil pÀƒ©s. O controlador respondeu “ok, mantenha”.

      Segundo a AeronÀƒ¡utica pode ter havido um mal-entendido entre o piloto e a torre de controle. Lepore pode ter entendido a ordem do controlador como uma autorizaÀƒ§Àƒ£o para manter a altitude de 37 mil pÀƒ©s, mesmo contrariando o plano de vÀƒ´o.

      A PolÀƒ­cia Federal de Mato Grosso ouviu os controladores de vÀƒ´o, “principalmente de BrasÀƒ­lia”, que estavam trabalhando no horÀƒ¡rio em que ocorreu o acidente entre o Boeing da Gol e o jato Legacy. A instituiÀƒ§Àƒ£o tambÀƒ©m abriu inquÀƒ©rito, por requisiÀƒ§Àƒ£o do MinistÀƒ©rio PÀƒºblico Federal, para identificar e descobrir a responsabilidade criminal pelo acidente.

      NOW THAT YOU CANÀ‚´T SCAPE GOAT THE US PILOTS ANYMORE, the ATC Union is starting to spin!!!!!
      http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-licont174936570oct17,0,6068493.story?coll=ny-linews-headlines

    • Polo

      “None, since I wasn’t a ” cuccaraccia ” like your descendancy when they came to America. I was invited in a student’s program. “

      SO IT WAS HERE THAT YOU LEARNED SOME OF YOUR SKEWED POLITICAL VIEWS?
      CAN’T SAY I’M SURPRISED AT ALL.
      HOW EVIL IS THE EMPIRE THAT ALLOWS ITS PROFESSORS TO TEACH YOUNG IMPRESSIONABLE MINDS POINTS OF VIEW HOSTILE TO ITSELF. UH-HUH…
      ————————————-

      “For once, in your insipid life, you’re right, Polo…My English is poor because I haven’t written in English for the last twenty years…But even so, it is still much better than your Portuguese…which is zero… “

      ZERO….AND THAT’S ABOUT ALL THE PORT. I NEED TO KNOW – BECAUSE THAT’S ABOUT THE NUMBER OF RELEVANCE PORT HAS TO THE MODERN WORLD. KIND OF LIKE CROATIAN OR SWEDISH…ZERO!
      ——————————–

      “No, I don’t have gardeners or maids…And even though, I am white, I don’t give a damn about the color of one’s skin as you do. ”
      UH-HUH…YA MAN…
      COME ON, BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF. AFTER ALL, WHO WAS IS THAT STARTED MAKING THE ACCUSATION THAT I, LIKE ALL AMERICANS, ARE RACISTS WHO HATE LATINS, BROWN, BLACK, “3RD WORLDERS”, ETC.
      THEN YOU ARE STUNNED TO FIND I’M A BROWN-SKINNED AMERICAN – UH-OHHH. THAT WAS STUPID, WASN’T IT?
      NOW Y-O-U ARE ON THE RECEIVING OF YOUR OWN SHITSTORM – SO HOW DOES IT FEEL WISEGUY?
      AN HONEST GUY WOULD HAVE ALREADY TAKEN THAT AS A LESSON SERVED BUT I’M SURE YOU’VE ALREADY BURIED THIS IN – AND BLOWN IT OUT YOUR RECTUM WITHOUT MUCH FANFARE BY NOW, SO I WON’T EVEN ASK.
      AND YOU S-T-I-L-L CALL ME A RACIST!! LOL YOU’RE A PIECE OF WORK.ALRIGHT, BOLD, BUT INEFFECTIVE.
      ——————————————-

      Polo wrote: ” VOLUNTEER YOUR SERVICES TO HELP THE POOR IN THE FAVELAS LATELY? ”

      “Already done. And I still do. Sorry, your advice arrives twenty years late. “

      SO…COMO DESEJA A CARNE?
      ———————————————-

      Please, stop your writing diarrhea …You know better than me for whom I voted ? Polo, go see a doctor…you are crazy… “
      NO I DON’T CARE WHO YOU VOTED FOR, BUT THE POINT HERE IS APPARENTLY I STRUCK A NERVE. SO HOW DOES IT FEEL TO BE ON THE RECEIVING END NOW?
      ————————————

      “You don’t know a thing about Brazil’s history. You wrote that Nazis went to South America as if they were invited to ! Obviously, you don’t know anything about immigration laws in South America in 1945. “

      I’M NOT GOING TO ARGUE SEMANTICS WITH YOU. WHETHER INVITED, CODDLED, SHELTERED, PROTECTED, SYSMPATHIZED WITH…IT ALL HAPPENED AND IT’S ALL DOCUMENTED.IF YOU REALLY CARE ENOUGH ABOUT THE SUBJECT, GO DO SOME SPECIFIC RESEARCH ON IT FOR YOURSELF. I’M NOT GOING TO DEBATE WITH YOU.
      WHO KNOWS, NEXT THING I KNOW YOU’LL BE TRYING TO CONVINCE ME THE HOLOCAUST DIDN’T HAPPEN EITHER.
      IF YOUR BRAZ UNIVERSITY HISTORY CLASS DIDN’T TEACH IT, DOESN’T MEAN IT DIDN’T HAPPEN.
      OH, AND “IMMIGRATION LAWS IN S.AM.1945”? WHAT, TIGHT LID? PUUHLEASE. EVEN THE U.S. DIDN’T WATCH THE LAND BORDERS MUCH BACK THEN…
      NICE TRY…
      ——————————————-
      “Besides, Lula has never been a ” leftist ” as you wrote… He buys votes by giving alms to desperate people, by promising to everyone that Brazil will be free of the American and the European imperialism while he’s serving them. “

      I KNOW! THE NERVE OF THAT GUY, NOT A TRUE LEFTIST!
      HE’S ONLY HALF AS DELUSIONAL AS YOU AND YOUR COMPATRIOTS HUH?
      I SAY GET RID OF HIM!
      BRAZIL NEEDS A CHAVEZ DUDE TO GET THINGS DONE RIGHT ONCE AND FOR ALL. BRAZIL NEED THE NUCLEAR BOMB TOO. THAT’LL SHOW THOSE ARROGANT RACIST HEGEMONIC CANNABALISTIC IMPERIALIST HATERS!
      LOL
      ——————————————–

      Hey I’m going to use that animation for an Avatar. Thanks…it’s pretty good.

    • Guest

      for polo
      I think this shit should look itself at the mirror , complexity of inferiority , lack of identity, he would give a good buttler to Bush……perhaps helping him clean his ass LOL LOL LOL

    • Guest

      POLO LOCO…..
      Justice…I loved the POLO LOCO at the computer….GREAT …that’s exactally this asshole…..
      I think this asshole is the only creature that can think , everybody else copy and paste……..LOL LOL LOL

    • Justice

      Poor Polo…
      [i]Polo wrote: ” 17 COUNTRIES?…. OR 17 PROVINCIAS OF CUBA? ” [/i]

      Superior being, [img]http://perso.wanadoo.fr/atil/forum/xmains3.gif[/img]
      don’t you know the difference between countries and ” provincias ” ?

      [i]Polo wrote: ” HAS LULA SUCKED HIS DICK YET? ” [/i]

      I don’t know…But in the matter of ” dick sucking “, you must be a master so you must be better informed than us all…

      [i]Polo wrote: ” OUT OF THE FOUR COUNTRIES YOU LIVED IN, HOW MANY DEPORTED YOUR FILTHY MOUTH? I CAN GUARANTEE YOU THE USA WASN’T ONE OF THEM “[/i]

      None, since I wasn’t a ” cuccaraccia ” like your descendancy when they came to America. I was invited in a student’s program.

      [i]Polo wrote: ” PERHAPS I SHOULD RIP YOU A NEW ONE ABOUT YOUR POOR USE OF ENGLISH. “[/i]

      For once, in your insipid life, you’re right, Polo…My English[b] is[/b] poor because I haven’t written in English for the last twenty years…But even so, it is still much better than your Portuguese…which is zero…

      [i]Polo wrote: ” WHAT COLOR ARE YOUR GARDENERS BITCH? ARE THEY DARKER THAN YOU? “[/i]

      Tss..tss.. It’s not because your mom is a bitch that everybody else is too.
      No, I don’t have gardeners or maids…And even though, I am white, I don’t give a damn about the color of one’s skin as you do.

      [i]Polo wrote: ” VOLUNTEER YOUR SERVICES TO HELP THE POOR IN THE FAVELAS LATELY? “[/i]

      Already done. And I still do. Sorry, your advice arrives twenty years late.

      [i]Polo wrote: ” OFFER THEM YOUR CULO AT LEAST IF YOU HAVE NOTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO GIVE UP.”[/i]

      My English might be poor but here you prove you don’t know a word in Portuguese. And once again, it’s not because your father gives his ” culo ” that everybody else does the same.

      [i]Polo wrote: ” FOR ALL THE INFAMY YOUR GROUP LIVES IN BRAZIL, YOU’LL BLAME IT ON THE IMPERIALIST GRINGO TO MAKE YOURSELF FEEL BETTER AND REGURGITATE LEFTIST IDEALS TO SHOW YOU CARE, JUST LIKE LULA. “[/i]

      Please, stop your writing diarrhea …You know better than me for whom I voted ? Polo, go see a doctor…you [b]are[/b] crazy…

      You don’t know a thing about Brazil’s history. You wrote that Nazis went to South America as if they were invited to ! Obviously, you don’t know anything about immigration laws in South America in 1945.

      Besides, Lula has never been a ” leftist ” as you wrote… He buys votes by giving alms to desperate people, by promising to everyone that Brazil will be free of the American and the European imperialism while he’s serving them.

      [i]Polo wrote: ” I DON’T LIKE TAKING CHEAP SHOTS OVER PETTY MATTERS…”[/i]

      That’s all you do, poor thing. Your assumptions are legion. You ask questions and in the same post you answer them…and then you finish by a stupid nonsense joke that only makes [b]you[/b] laugh. ( [i]Polo wrote: “… LOL too funny… “[/i]

      And what amuses me most is that you are convinced that you’re a genius. ( [i]Polo wrote: ” DO YOU REALLY EXPECT AN INTELLIGENT DEBATE FROM ME ” [/i])

      I must thank you, Polo, for being such a good laboratory rat…You demonstrated so well how Americans can be ignorants, pretentious and imperialists… [b]Quod erat demonstrandum” ![//b]

      [img]http://biboz.net/gifs/smiles-divertidos-alegres/humor_files/desmayo.gif[/img]

    • Justice

      Now here is Polo
      Poor Polo….

      [img]http://www.friday-fun.com/files/smiles/angry2.gif[/img]

    • Polo

      OH yes I do know about it….but did YOU actually read it and did YOU actually comprehend it?
      Nice COPY & PASTE job.
      EDDIE was better though…

    • Guest

      What the World is Saying POLO…..
      for you ignorant , have you looked youself at the mirror lately?? you have no identity, is confuse , barks a lot
      behind the computer but could for sure scream like a pig that you are before the judgment day.
      WELCOME TO THE AMERICAN GESTAPO
      a dangerous piece of legislation called the À¢€œUSA Patriot Act,À¢€Â allow Attorney-General John Ashcroft to sign away the normal rights and protections that Americans used to enjoy À¢€“ little things like probable cause, due process and the now forgotten belief that any accused is presumed innocent until proven guilty. Those who support these expanded powers say the system has “safeguards” where law enforcement personnel must get a judge’s approval before wiretapping an American family but those who have studied the law said the “safeguards” are, in fact, “carefully worded loopholes.” “The law only requires an ‘administrative review’ by the very department that wants to spy on Americans,” says retired federal judge John Macklin. “Most judges would not approve such wiretaps but the law is engineered to make sure that most judges never see the request.” Ashcroft says he will implement the new powers À¢€œimmediatelyÀ¢€Â and is already increasing surveillance of Americans. Look closer at the powers granted under the act and you will find things that would make Hitler proud. They include provisions to allow private citizens to spy on other private citizens without fear of prosecution if the Department determines their actions were conducted À¢€œin the national interest.À¢€Â À¢€œIÀ¢€™ve read some of the abstracts on the new law and they take the handcuffs off people like me,À¢€Â says private detective Andrew Burlingame. À¢€œI can tap anyone I damn well please. All I have to do is claim I thought the guy was a terrorist.À¢€Â Under the new law, an agent of the Department of Homeland Security can walk into your bank, flash a badge and demand to see your checking and saving account records. No court order. All they need is the À¢€œpresumption of guilt.À¢€Â They can stop you in your car without cause and search it and you. They can hold you in jail for 30 days or more without filing any charges or allowing you to make any phone calls. They can call up America Online and put a trace on all your Internet activity without a court order. They can require Visa to turn over all your credit card activity records without notice. “Again, the process only requires an internal administrative review and not the involvement of any independent judicial authority,” says retired judge Macklin. “It violates all previous standards for due process and probable cause.” In other words, they can do any damn thing they want and there isnÀ¢€™t a thing that any of us can do about it. Some may argue the current terrorist threat requires such drastic measures. But what happens when that threat is met? The Department of Homeland Security and its draconian powers will still exist. Who will determine the new threat? Who will decide who becomes the enemy? “An evil exists that threatens every man, woman and child of this great nation,” the leader of another country once wrote, “We must take steps to ensure our domestic security and protect our homeland.” That was Adoph Hitler, writing about the creation of the Gestapo in Nazi Germany.So welcome to the American Gestapo. Be careful what you say and do. They are watching and they will be watching from now on. And soon, perhaps, they will be coming for you …POLO Asshole and yes tell me that this is all old rhetoric and that you read all about it jackass…….

    • Polo

      Guest I’m not sure I understand your ‘question’. LOL
      But I sure hope you brush your teeth and de-toxified your tongue before you use it on your boyfriend tonight.

      And leave Justice alone – right now he’s too busy dreaming up a holy campaign against imperialism and how he can save the world as the imperial dragon slayer…LOL too funny…

    • Guest

      genetic waste…..
      Now I am sure this piece of merd really have a complex problem , I knew this shit was a fucking mixture
      totally fucked up …justice do not waste more your latin with this scum….let him have all the public and attention he deserves ( childish infantile pitiful creature ) hey captain ( comandante America ) the show is over
      you win ok?? go and massage your fucking ego now…….go and jerk off a little bit procreate your scorge that’s what you do best…..so intelligent, so empty….a complete void of everything noble…….

    • Polo

      Justice is here!
      “…So far, I have lived in four countries ( including U.S ); I have been to more than 17 countries, I have had University education, I speak four langages…”

      WOW, THATS IMPRESSIVE. 17 COUNTRIES?…. OR 17 PROVINCIAS OF CUBA? HOW’S YOUR GLORIOUS COMANDANTE, HAS LULA SUCKED HIS DICK YET?
      OUT OF THE FOUR COUNTRIES YOU LIVED IN, HOW MANY DEPORTED YOUR FILTHY MOUTH?
      I CAN GUARANTEE YOU THE USA WASN’T ONE OF THEM.
      I ACTUALLY MET ONE OF YOUR TYPES BABBLING SHIT AND PASSING OUT “LITERATURE” –GET THIS, IN FRONT OF A FEDERAL BUILDING!!!
      YOU CAN SPEAK FOUR LANGUAGES? I BELIEVE THAT – BUT IN HOW MANY LANGUAGES CAN YOU SAY “I STAND AGAINST IMPERIALISM! PLEASE LISTEN TO ME, I’M SHITTING MY PANTS OVER HERE!”? CAN YOU DO IT IN RUSSIAN? LOL
      ————————————
      “If you had traveled so much as you say, you would stop writing in Spanish when it comes to Brazil…Brazilians speak Portuguese, not Spanish. “

      GEE…THANKS THAT WAS NICE OF YOU -.YOU WELL-INFORMED, COURTEOUS INTERNATIONAL MAN!
      TOUCHY AND OFFENDED ABOUT LANGUAGE. PERHAPS I SHOULD RIP YOU A NEW ONE ABOUT YOUR POOR USE OF ENGLISH…BUT I WON’T BECAUSE I DON’T LIKE TAKING CHEAP SHOTS OVER PETTY MATTERS…THE IDEA IS COMMUNICATION ISN’T IT?
      ———————————————
      “Mostly because the only jobs the American gringo is offering them are miserable wage jobs.Housekeepers, gardeners, toilet cleaners…”

      IN YOUR RECKLESS QUEST TO CONVINCE YOURSELF THAT THERE IS A BOGEY-MAN HERE, YOU OVERLOOKED A KEY FACT: THAT UNEDUCATED UNSKILLED PEOPLE DON’T GET JOBS THAT REQUIRE SKILLS AND TRAINING. IF THAT WEREN’T TRUE, THEN WHY HAVE YOU GONE TO THE UNIVERSITY? APPARENTLY THEY TAUGHT YOU JOB SKILLS, BUT NOT HOW TO THINK LOGICALLY.
      YOU GO ON STATING THIS ALL YOU WANT. IT SERVES YOUR POLITICAL AGENDA AND MIGHT EVEN HELP TO CONVINCE AN IDIOT EVERY NOW AND THEN. THERE’S PLENTY OF THEM OUT THERE, SO I SEE WHY YOU’RE SO BUSY.
      ————————————————
      “….when Americans go to Mexico, they want nothing less than first-class jobs”

      SO UNSKILLED AMERICANS ARE GOING IN DROVES TO MEXICO LOOKING FOR JOBS? AND DEMANDING ‘FIRST CLASS JOBS”? AND YOU SAY YOU LIVED HERE?
      WHAT YOU MEANT TO SAY WAS AMERICANS ARE GOING TO MEXICO, INVESTING CAPITAL, BUYING PROPERTY, AND SPENDING DOLLARS AT THE RESORTS. AND EUROS, JAPANESE, TAIWANESE, CHINESE, KOREAN….PROBABLY EVEN
      BRAZILIAN…..SO?
      THAT WAS REALLY A SORRY ATEMPT – EVEN FOR YOU.
      ———————————–
      “If America and other ” first world ” countries wouldn’t steal ” third world countries “

      HERE WE GO AGAIN…IF YOU NEED A SHOULDER TO CRY ON, YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO.
      TELL IT TO CHAVEZ, HE MIGHT CARE AFTER HE’S HAD DINNER AND HIS COGNAC….TRY CALLING AFTER 11:00
      ———————————
      “Don’t tell me that Mexicans are not mistreated, deported or even killed by the ” empire “…because it’s a lie. There are Americans who stay close to the American- Mexican border in order to shoot these poor immigrants. And they do it as ” volunteers “, as so-called ” patriots “. Murders in fact. Their ” patriotism ” is an excuse to let their killing instincts out. “

      THIS IS REALLY REALLY HARD NOT TO GET COMICAL OR SARCASTIC ABOUT. YOU’RE REFERRING TO THE MINUTEMEN RIGHT?
      DO YOU REALLY THINK YOU HAVE AN AUDIENCE FOR THIS HERE?
      DO YOU REALLY EXPECT AN INTELLIGENT DEBATE FROM ME ON THIS STUPIDITY? SORRY, I JUST WON’T.

      ————————————————-
      “Go tell that to the families of the 154 passegers of GOL 1907…”

      LIKE I SAID IF YOU NEED A SHOULDER…I CAN’T HELP YO THERE SWEETIE…
      ——————————————-

      “You’re making it ? How ? Selling weeds ?
      I love when you write: ” thanks to God “… How a racist who refers to people as ” animals ” can thank God ?
      I bet He would answer your prayers by: ” Vete a la mierda, Polo cabrÀƒ³n ! ” “

      RE: WEEDS
      NOW THERE’S A COMMENT THAT WAS RACIST AND STEREOTYPICAL. YOU MAY THINK YOU CAN HIDE BEHIND ALL THAT ANONIMITY OF THE MIXED BRAZILIAN POPULATION, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT? I THINK YOU’RE BRAZILIAN WHITE TRASH, EVERY LATIN COUNTRY HAS THEM TOO. I KNOW.
      WHAT COLOR ARE YOUR GARDENERS BITCH? ARE THEY DARKER THAN YOU?
      FOR ALL THE INFAMY YOUR GROUP LIVES IN BRAZIL, YOU’LL BLAME IT ON THE IMPERIALIST GRINGO TO MAKE YOURSELF FEEL BETTER AND REGURGITATE LEFTIST IDEALS TO SHOW YOU CARE, JUST LIKE LULA.
      LIFE IS SWEET ISN’T IT,FUCKER?
      HYPOCRITE.
      VOLUNTEER YOUR SERVICES TO HELP THE POOR IN THE FAVELAS LATELY?
      OFFER THEM YOUR CULO AT LEAST IF YOU HAVE NOTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO GIVE UP.
      DON’T FORGET TO TELL THE POOR PEOPLE ABOUT HOW THE GRINGO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR WATER PROBLEMS. THEY LIKE A GOOD STORY WITH THEIR CULO.
      NOW THAT’S JUSTICE!

    • Justice

      Polo, what are you waiting for comitting suicide ?
      [i] Polo wrote: ” You need to get off your knees feeling sorry for yourself – like the victim of the world. Turn off Chavez TV, get more education, make a little money, have fun and travel a little more.[/i]

      Poor Polo, you don’t even know who I am…So far, I have lived in four countries ( including U.S ); I have been to more than 17 countries, I have had University education , I speak four langages and I don’t have money problems…So you would better take your advices to yourself…

      [i] Polo wrote: ” Y mira con que tono lo dice! ” ; ” Venganza “…[/i]

      If you had traveled so much as you say, you would stop writing in Spanish when it comes to Brazil…Brazilians speak Portuguese, not Spanish.

      [i] Polo wrote: ” You should see how bad it is in Los Angeles, for example. It’s sad, so many latin people making excuses for why they “can’t” prosper in life because of the “gringo”. Same shit. And so many of them came here voluntarily and illegally yet still not mistreated by the “empire”, not even deported .”[/i]

      Mostly because the only jobs the American gringo is offering them are miserable wage jobs. Housekeepers, gardeners, toilet cleaners…Instead, when Americans go to Mexico, they want nothing less than first-class jobs.
      Mexicans do go voluntarily to U.S. and yet…no. They wouldn’t leave their families, their country or their culture behind if they had a choice… If America and other ” first world ” countries wouldn’t steal ” third world countries ” so much, I bet Mexicans as other immigrants would prefer to stay in their country homes.

      Don’t tell me that Mexicans are not mistreated, deported or even killed by the ” empire “…because it’s a lie. There are Americans who stay close to the American- Mexican border in order to shoot these poor immigrants. And they do it as ” volunteers “, as so-called ” patriots “. Murders in fact. Their ” patriotism ” is an excuse to let their killing instincts out.

      [i] Polo wrote: ” We only have ourselves to blame if we’re unhappy.”[/i]

      Go tell that to the families of the 154 passegers of GOL 1907…

      [i] Polo wrote: ” But know something, there are MILLIONS like me that are making it and give many thanks to God and this country. The rest can live like animals they CHOOSE to be.”[/i]

      You’re making it ? How ? Selling weeds ?
      I love when you write: ” thanks to God “… How a racist who refers to people as ” animals ” can thank God ?
      I bet He would answer your prayers by: ” Vete a la mierda, Polo cabrÀƒ³n ! “

    • Justice

      Polo, what are you waiting for comitting suicide ?
      [i] Polo wrote: “…the TWA broke up in mid-air caused by a massive center wing fuel tank explosion. Totally different scenario. Or are one of those who believes the TWA “colided” with a CIA missile? “[/i]

      The fact that TWA 800 broke up either because of a fuel tank explosion or a CIA missile is irrelevant in the example I gave to Michael Davis…
      Compared to GOL 1907, it [b]is[/b] a different scenario concerning the cause.[b]But|/b] if you were a little less stupid, you would understand that both planes were cut in two… And in this particular case, even an American super pilot, with a super superior training, could do nothing to save the aircraft.

      [i] Judge, Jury and Executioner. Quick on the trigger, aren’t you? And you name yourself “Justice”? Let’s hope braz judges are better than that – if it comes to that.[/i]

      Since you only respect ” first world countries “, Polo…. do you know that if Lepore and Palladino were in France ( and if we were talking of 154 French people instead of 154 Brazilians ); the two of them would be already in jail…only because of the facts written in the flight plan… So you can see how nice Brazilian judges are to let these two killers stay a little longer in Copacabana Marriott.

      [i]I stand by my comment that you’re one of the reactionary monkeys referred to above.[/i]

      I don’t give a shit about what you think of me, Polo. You give yourself a value you’re definitely not worth of.

      [i]Does it occur to you that this sort or hatred and race-baiting (look it up on Wikipedia)[/i]

      No wonder your information sources come from Wikipedia…[img]http://perso.wanadoo.fr/atil/forum/semarre.gif[/img]

      [i]Polo wrote: “…can lead to many social problems including inferiority complex, which is what you’re showing here? ” [/i]

      Once again, you didn’t get it. You think you do, poor thing…but you don’t…Brazilians are not complexed. They are just fed up with American arrogance and imperialism of which you are the best ambassador.

      [i]Polo wrote: “We are much more diverse here than any other country in world and we get along better here than ANY OTHER. [/i]

      Maybe that’s why you have the Klu Klux Klan…maybe that’s why you are ready to have America’s Berlin Wall…[img]http://img.hebus.com/2004/12/10/041210200824_44.gif[/img]

      [i]Polo wrote: “…so imagine how stupid you would look to the world when you knew that I’m an American that happens to be of MEXICAN descent.” [/i]

      ” You would look to the [b]world[b] ??? ” None the less… You’re hilarious, Polo…
      So you are ” an American that happens to be of MEXICAN descent “… So what ??? Condoleezza Rice and Colin Powell are Afro-americans who work for a republican racist WASP president… In the Nuremberg trial, there was a Nazi whose family name was ” Rosenberg “…So???? So, you happen to be a Mexican monkey…

      Since you loooove America that much and that you are suuuuch a republican, I still believe that the best for you is to enroll in the US Army in Iraq. You will be able to defend your country, you will be able to put your racism in practice like your fellow Americans did in Abou Ghraib.
      [img]http://www.algerie-dz.com/IMG/jpg/Lynndie_England-2.jpg[/img]

      But please, afterwards, when terrorrists throw planes over American buildings, don’t play the part of the ” Victims of the world “…

    • Polo

      written by baba, 2006-10-14 13:04:14

      “The world is not that easy to explain. IÀ‚´m no teacher, but i do understand there is a really small difference between right and wrong. “

      A – You mean you see a lot of grey?
      Really small difference between right and wrong?
      That’s a very dangerous way to think…more dangerous to yourself than anyone else.
      Good Luck.

    • Polo

      GUEST….
      You obviously have a good command of English.
      Yet like the others in typical fashion you lay out an array of vitriolic accusations, I respond to them with counterpoints, and you come back with name-calling. Another moral coward….
      Like Justice, EDDIE, cacau, and Baba…blow a lot of hot air incoherently and then run like a rabid dog when the discussion gets to a point where you have to THINK for yourself.
      For all the disagreements we have, I still don’t tell anyone to shut up.

    • baba

      @polo
      The world is not that easy to explain. IÀ‚´m no teacher, but i do understand there is a really small difference between right and wrong.

    • Guest

      Can anybody please silence this mad republican dog
      For polo de Mad Dog…
      bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla……..go fetch a democrat…..

    • Polo

      BaBa Get off the High Horse…
      Baba I’m really disappointed in your comment.
      I almost have more contempt for you than any other now.
      I don’t take well after someone who jumps in a discussion and takes the high moral ground like a school teacher with fighting school boys and who is just too lazy to decide matters of right and wrong and dispense justice.
      Your remarks are condescending to everyone here and show that you don’t care to or have any intelligent opinion whatsoever to CONTRIBUTE or take a position. So please remove yourself from the discussion.
      Continue with your cold beer and drink up without a care in the world. That’s your prerogative, but that alone doesn’t make you any better informed. I ‘ve met plenty of people who just don’t give a shit either way about anything. THAT is far sillier to me, and not worthy of my respect at all.

    • Polo

      The main prospect for the future of the world is that perpetual war waged by the United States against small countries it declares to be “rogue states”

      A – And what do YOU consider them? North Korea and Iran? Sponsor terrorism, threaten neighbors with nuclear annihilation, enslave their own people among other things? “Guest”, since you’re intelligent enough to pose these questions and read articles, the why don’t YOU let your mind shine and state YOUR opinion of what constitutes a rogue state?
      Am I being presumptuous by interpreting your words to mean you consider them just another nice group of people like, say, Jamaica, where it’s also nice to go on vacation?
      Do you have the mental fortitude to make a rational decision and take a stand…or just babble off what you hear from certain ‘leaders’ and their own babbling?
      When – and if – you do, come back and talk.
      —————————————
      “…will lead to the slow growth of a coalition of enemies of the United States who will seek to weaken it and hasten its inevitable bankruptcy.”

      A – Yes there has been a growth of these, specifically in the Movement of Non-Aligned Nations, for example, headed now by Cuba, “the epicenter for human rights” [LOL] ….where it’s people are swimming away from for their lives, for decades.
      You’re right, they are enemies, together with N Korea, Iran, Syria and all the dirty terrorist children of Iran and Syria. The US and the rest of the free world is happy to have monsters like these as enemies. Nothing new. We’ve seen and crushed far, far worse than this gang of clowns before.

      ——————————————
      “…enemies of the United States who will seek to weaken it and hasten its inevitable bankruptcy. “

      A – Really? The largest economy in the world? You must have info from a divine source.
      That’s explosive news. My knees are trembling…

      ———————————-
      “American belligerence has deeply undercut international efforts to control the nuclear weapons that already exist and has rendered the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty …”

      A – Correction.
      The U.N., China, Russia and the weak gutless Europeans(namely France, Germany, Spain) have been, until RECENTLY now that DPRK has tested it’s bomb, had been playing the delay game antics just like they did with Saddam, which led to the 2nd Iraq War.
      You don’t seem to get your news from more than one source, do you wiseguy?
      If there was one party responsible in the USA leading up to this nuclear debacle, it was the bloody Clinton administrtion. He sat on his hands with China too – and as everybody [should] knows, didn’t act on Osama bin Laden decisively neither.

      ————————————–
      “The only hope for the planet is the isolation and neutralization of the United States by the international community. Policies to do so are underway in every democratic country on earth in quiet, unobtrusive ways.”

      A – Quiet unobtrusive ways?LOL Although you might later deny it, the following countries are in part or wholly responsible for the current push that you are referring to in the above statement I quoted. Also, check the definition of “democratic”.
      How’s this for your delicate palate:
      Fomenting, aiding, abetting, or excusing, global terrorism (IRAN, SYRIA, PAKISTAN, others); state-sponsored drug trafficking(CUBA, N. KOREA); international counterfeiting (N. KOREA); fomenting and aiding murderous insurgency groups(IRAN,CUBA,SYRIA,VENEZUELA); conspiring to destabilize world oil/energy market supply and prices(VENEZUELA, IRAN, RUSSIA, others); savage, brutal and (with last 2 of them) genocidal repression of their own population(BELARUS, CUBA, IRAN, MYANMAR, N. KOREA, SUDAN, others); open confrontation: military, economic AND social, (IRAN, N KOREA, VENEZUELA, SYRIA); Pursuit and threat with weapons of mass destruction (IRAN, N. KOREA).This list is by no means complete.
      My conclusion as to why you would make such a comment: either you are a person directly involved with these nations, having an unholy and direct personal/financial interest in these; or you’re a stupid fool. Analize different points of view for a change. Your life may depend on it someday.
      ————————————————————

      “If the United States is not checkmated and nuclear war ensues, civilization as we know it will disappear and the United States will go into the history books along with the Huns and the Nazis as a scourge of human life itself. “

      A – Your apparent concern for humanity is a noble one, but not genuine; you may believe you are genuine, but your statement contradicts you. A sorry attempt to cleverly disguise your words as to mean you have a concern for human beings but actually wish destruction upon others – in this case USA as a ‘scourge’. Who’s next, ye almighty God?
      Get yourself checked.

    • baba

      …..
      My friend, your posting above shows that are using the same ideologic ideas like they do (assuming that your last comment wasnÀ‚´t ironic). All of you have no clue about anything, youÀ‚´re just shouting and sceaming to say : we are better than you! What a silly crap! You guys have to fly a little bit more around the world and relax :-)!

    • Polo

      Why thank you BABA for the small dose of common sense, but where were you about 100 posts ago?

      These latest characters to be posting hate mail that I’m dealing with, I really don’t know who they are, where from, and where they get their inflammatory views from – certainly not from a rational informed source – but still not surprising.
      I still try and undertand how a person with such views can personally benefit them, again on a personal level, or is it just a disease of irrationality they just can’t get rid of? Abject Ignorance? Probably a combination of the latter two…
      This insane rhetoric with little to no basis in fact has existed for eons and will continue as long as there are masses of miserable self-loathing people living on earth. My statement is not a celebration of that fact but a sad recognition.
      These persons are persistent in trying to shut me up and are ‘almost’ comical in their haphazard endeavor. The same type of people that would attack, defame and sell their own mother and themselves into prostitution to win a baseless argument, babbling incoherently, with no beneficial outcome to anyone.

      Welcome to the new world of Chavez, Ahmadinejad, Kim Jong Il and Osama. Bringers of perpetual darkness to mankind. Dispensers of evil. Usurpers of of goodness, goodwill and decency. Exploiters of the weak and feebleminded.
      There will be those stand opposed and will survive.
      There will be those who follow and will perish.

    • baba

      @the idiots
      And i forgot to say who compares nazis with other civilized cultures for sure doesnÀ‚´t know much about history. Get back to school kids……

    • baba

      @the idiots
      Stop with your childish competion of whoÀ‚´s worse. To compare americans with nazis is already way to much(as the nazis were no civilization). I donÀ‚´t thing you guys are even old enough to get a beer, so you maybe you two could write each other pm and shut up. This all is far away from being relevant for the article.

    • Guest

      Captain America…….
      For POLO Captain America…….
      That is going to be your future pretty soon ….
      The main prospect for the future of the world is that perpetual war waged by the United States against small countries it declares to be “rogue states” will lead to the slow growth of a coalition of enemies of the United States who will seek to weaken it and hasten its inevitable bankruptcy. This is the way the Roman Empire ended.The chief problem is that the only way an adversary of the United States can even hope to balance or deter the enormous American concentration of military power is through what the Pentagon calls asymmetric warfare (“terrorism”) and nuclear weapons. American belligerence has deeply undercut international efforts to control the nuclear weapons that already exist and has rendered the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty more or less moot (the U.S., in particular, has failed to take any actions it contracted to do under article 6, the reduction of stockpiles by the nuclear armed nations).The only hope for the planet is the isolation and neutralization of the United States by the international community. Policies to do so are underway in every democratic country on earth in quiet, unobtrusive ways. If the United States is not checkmated and nuclear war ensues, civilization as we know it will disappear and the United States will go into the history books along with the Huns and the Nazis as a scourge of human life itself.

    • EDDIE

      Hey Captain America….
      Didn’t learn on Korea!!!
      Didn’t Learn on Vietnan!!
      Didn’t learn on Iraq!!
      who is going to be next ?? Iran?? or perhaps Venezuela or who knows Brazil??
      NAZI LOVER… you contradict yourself pretty much don’t you , Tell me you love the Jews too?? ops… I did it again!! but please this time have an orgams with a cumcumber stuck in your ass…..

    • Polo

      VÀƒ£o a merda todo mundo!!!!
      I think renato meric sums up pretty well how you all think here.
      No shit, LOL

    • Guest

      LOL
      Poor demented Polo…
      All those beautiful words that you’re spitting here you read at the NYT or watched on fox????? you make me sick !
      like you said to Eddie boy , by the way this expression is very common between KKK members isnt it?? I am just going to tell you this , you are a sick bastart, pitiful bastard, you Know nothing all your “technology ” came from Immigrants and other sources that your criminal government knows where? moon even yourselves doubt if you really went there?? perhaps a show to put before the Russians??? have you ever watched capricorn one you asshole???? , why if you are so advanced technologically I don’t have a moon base by now after 37 years ?? huh smartass??? Becareful about talking about the Jews !!! your putrid government did not helped the jews just because of their beautiful eyes but because of your beautiful and prosperous economy, Banks !! ring the bell asshole??? I guess so you are so intelligent,the only thing that you and your sick society really cares is money nothing more,hey pssst I think Emperor John Wayne will be to late to save your fat ass you will all die at the beach , like at the bay of Pigs , like pigs lol……..

    • Polo

      EDDIE, you’re so much fun…
      “You are more idiot and blind than I tought, I am not going to spend more time with it …..”

      A – Well….?
      LOL
      ————————————-
      “.the founders of
      america would be very ashamed and disgraced by people or I should say ( creatures like you )”

      A – What about the founders, WHO are they, what do YOU know about them?
      I’m not a creature, I’m a HUMAN BEEEEING, FULL OF HUMAN RIIIIIGHTS…true founder of imperialists all over the universe. LOL
      —————————————
      “, in response to
      what Hitler would do to Brazil if I say If they had won the war : I guess you know that your “government ” project paper clip took all the nazis High ranking to your beloved country , special those that made “very special cientific” research or should say murder with the Jews and all other races, that without saying the other scientists involved in other sinister research. they all came to america and became very respected citizens , wanna an example: Werner von Braun?? the head of the apollo project , want more??? “

      A – Please stop!!! you’re giving me an orgasm LOL… I can’t take so much revealing information!
      Yep we sure did get those guys from Germany. They helped produce many good things – and weapons of course with which to defend the free world, including your sorry ass too. As you should know, the Soviets were doing the same to come ‘save’ your sorry ass [from us.]
      At least we got the smart ones, not the worst of the criminal Nazi scumbags that BRAZIL, ARGENTINA, CHILE, PARAGUAY, etc. clandestinely gave REFUGE to, in exchange for money… and favors…. OR FOR JUST PLAIN SYMPATHY TO THEM. It’s been documented.
      Forgot that, Eddieboy?
      Good thing you brought up Jews. I wonder if South America will ever apologize to the Jews, Hell, most don’t even have the decency of openly supporting Israel today. Cowards.
      From Nazi scientists the USA further developed, for example, rockets which took us to the moon; enabled development of satellites for YOUR CELLULAR PHONE today; supercomputers which became PCs like the one you’re now babbling on and of course [and not least] the modern turbofan engine on the GOL airplane which is what we’re SUPPOSED TO BE TALKING ABOUT.
      ——————————————

      “and just a few hours ago another “pilot” from NEW YORK just crashed on a high rise !!!!!!! what is wrong in this picture???? anybody can tell??? “

      A – Me! I got it!
      What’s wrong with this picture is that a plane crashed in to a building and a Yankee died – no, a New York Yankee died – no, doesn’t matter. A yanqui died! No, TWO yanquis!
      YOU’RE BRILLIANT EDDIE!
      Hey, [pssst]…. maybe the high-rise was a brazilian building and collided with plane to take REVENGE! REVENGE! VENGANZA!
      All Brazil say together now,” GOOOOOOOOOL….”
      ———————————–

      “I guess the John Wayne attitude is really catching up if you all, I sincerely hope those “PILOTs” get what they deserve , get locked up for many years and that it will serve as an exemple to you all Americans…………. “

      A – I see you finally got VCR and TV to watch our Great and Glorious leader, Emperor John Wayne, but sorry too late for you Eddie he’s dead now but careful he still come to kill you with imperialist aggression.
      Maybe Legacy pilots are agents of John Wayne. Seriously Eddie tell your police to watch them very closely –LOL LOL LOL.

    • Polo

      “JUSTICE”

      “According to you, line pilots in U.S. ( AND ONLY IN US OF COURSE(!) ) are trained to how not too overstress the aircraft… Maybe, that’s why the AMERICAN (!) super-pilot of TWA 800 could do nothing to save his aircraft… “

      MAYBE? Hey, super NON-pilot, the TWA broke up in mid-air caused by a massive center wing fuel tank explosion. Totally different scenario. Or are one of those who believes the TWA “colided” with a CIA missile????

      “…But we can not accept it when it was due to negligence and that’s what Lepore and Palladino did. They killed 154 people because they were negligent.”

      Judge, Jury and Executioner. Quick on the trigger, aren’t you? And you name yourself “Justice”? Let’s hope braz judges are better than that – if it comes to that.
      I stand by my comment that you’re one of the reactionary monkeys referred to above.

      “Well, you should know it since you are sooooo intelligent and you are sooooosuperior compared to Brazilians, Mexicans, Cubans, Chineses, Africans, Muslims, etc, etc…”

      Y mira con que tono lo dice! LOL
      You and other racist monkeys here keep insisting on this about “Americans”. I’m beginning to wonder if this attitude is being taught in your schools, and whether it is expressed or implied. Or is this just common “street wisdom” like I’ve seen in so many places?
      Does it occur to you that this sort or hatred and race-baiting (look it up on Wikipedia) can lead to many social problems including inferiority complex, which is what you’re showing here?
      We are much more diverse here than any other country in world and we get along better here than ANY OTHER. American is a nationality comprised of many ethnic groups, NOT a race you fool…so imagine how stupid you would look to the world when you knew that I’m an American that happens to be of MEXICAN descent.
      Therefore, I’ve been to Mexico and many other latin american countries and have seen this ignorant misinformed attitude and misconceptions toward the USA like you see disease in a hospital.
      You need to get off your knees feeling sorry for yourself – like the victim of the world. Turn off Chavez TV, get more education, make a little money, have fun and travel a little more. That’s how I got rid of the inferiority-complex disease that seems to afflict so many latinos still today.
      You should see how bad it is in Los Angeles, for example. It’s sad, so many latin people making excuses for why they “can’t” prosper in life because of the “gringo”. Same shit. And so many of them came here voluntarily and illegally yet still not mistreated by the “empire”, not even deported – yet STILL talking racist shit (“La Raza”) and free to express it anyway the lazy bastards like.
      How evil is the ’empire’, the one that tolerates even these types of people?
      We only have ourselves to blame if we’re unhappy. But know something, there are MILLIONS like me that are making it and give many thanks to God and this country. The rest can live like like animals they CHOOSE to be.

      “Before you spit on Mexicans, try to remember that lots of them are in Iraq right now defending your country… While YOU… “

      ME? You’re talking to ME?
      Again, careful sometimes you might have to go back and eat your words, just like Eddie.
      LOL

    • renato meric

      cambada de filho da puta!!
      VÀƒ£o a merda todo mundo!!!! vcs nÀƒ£o sabem o que falam… o piloto de vcs tinha que morrer por matar mais de 150 pessoas…. cambada de pela saco!

    • Justice

      Polo dear…
      And since an image is worth a thousand words, I’ll show what I do to imperialists like you:

      [img]http://forums.abandonware-france.org/images/smilies/throwup.gif[/img]

    • Justice

      Polo dear…
      [i]Polo wrote: ” What the fuck is ‘American imperialism’ anyway? ” [/i]

      Well, you should know it since you are [b] sooooo[/b] intelligent and you are [b] sooooo[/b]superior compared to [i]Brazilians, Mexicans, Cubans, Chineses, Africans, Muslims, [/i]etc, etc…

      Since the capacity of your poor brain can’t cope with long posts like Eddie’s, I will give an example even a foetus would understand…

      An ” imperialist ” is someone exactly like you, Polo. It’s someone who writes:

      [i]Yowzaaa written by Polo, 2006-10-10 05:33:01
      What’s with all these brazilian monkeys spewing so much worthless anti-American rhetoric?[/i]

      Or even:

      [i]written by Polo, 2006-10-10 17:33:05 : ” Seriously man, get your head out of Hugo Chavez’s ass and speak more intelligently.”[/i]

      [b]AND THEN, HE WRITES:[/b]

      [i]written by Polo, 2006-10-11 16:14:55 :” Although I’m no ‘yankee’, I’ll give you my perspective; and if you’d let up on the provocative stereotyped name-calling and try and show some respect, you’d know that word doesn’t apply to any Americans today. Yankees were the northern people fighting the south during our civil war and that was 142 YEARS AGO. Would it be fair to classify all brasileiros TODAY as just portuguese colonials? “[/i]

      It’s not fair either to call them ” monkeys ” as you did…

      In other words, it’s alright if you don’t respect others…but you want others to respect[b] you.[/b]

      That’s what an imperialist is: Someone who believes that he’s better than others…

      Before you spit on Mexicans, try to remember that lots of them are in Iraq right now defending [b]your[/b] country… While YOU… you’re throwing up your deep ignorance behind your computer…Now, that’s a brave cowboy… 😉

      Besides, I don’t need Michael Moore to learn what’s going on in the world…

      And since an image is worth a thousand words, I’ll show what I do to imperialists like you:

      http://forums.abandonware-france.org/images/smilies/throwup.gif

    • Justice

      To Michael Davis
      [i]written by Michael Davis, 2006-10-09 02:22:09:”…all I am stating and agreeing with tim is that line pilots in the US spend countless hours in CAE level D full motion simulators; simulating all kind of emergencies that the general public or Hollywood could never dream of. One of the emergencies is unusual attitude recoveries. We are traine and taught how to recover and during the recovery HOW NOT TOO OVERSTRESS THE AIRCRAFT AND TO
      MAINTAIN SITUATIONAL AWARENESS.”[/i]

      According to you, line pilots in U.S. ( and only in U.S., of course ) are trained to how not too overstress the aircraft… Maybe, that’s why the American super-pilot of TWA 800 could do nothing to save his aircraft…

      Michael, as a pilot you are, you might agree that sometimes not even the best training in the world could avoid a line pilot to crash. We still don’t know what happened after the Legacy collided Gol 737. Physicians have a ” theory ” on that. But for the moment, it’s[b] only[/b] a theory. The Legacy would have cut off 1/3 of the Boeing 737 wing. After it was teared apart, the wing flew up to upper wing which is responsible for the plane stability.
      Without 1/3 of the left wing and without stability, there was nothing the Gol 737 pilot could do.

      However, [b]we do know by now[/b] that Lepore and Palladino didn’t follow the flight plan and that they flew towards the 737.

      Aircrafts have crashed all over the world. I think we can ” accept ” it, if it was due to a mechanical failure…In some cases and depending on the reasons, we might also ” accept ” it if it was human failure…[b]But we can not accept it when it was due to negligence[/b] and that’s what Lepore and Palladino did. They killed 154 people because they were negligent.
      Palladino has stated that communication worked fine from SÀƒ£o JosÀƒ© dos Campos up to Brasilia. He told controllers in which frequency he was: 135,90 mhz. Then, controllers advised him to change to another frequency ( which is a normal procedure considering where Legacy was at the time ). Palladino said that he lost contact with the ATC before controllers would have given him the new frequency. When all this happened, Palladino was by himself
      in the cockpit. Lepore had gone to the toilets. When Lepore came back, Palladino told him what had happened. Palladino tried to catch up with other frequencies but it didn’t work out.

      [b] Now we arrive at the point[/b]: If they could not find another frequency, they should keep the altitude and the speed given by the flight plan. Obviously, they didn’t even look at it once more so as to check if they were following what was written in the flight plan.
      Sorry but there’s only one word to it: [b]NEGLIGENCE.[/b]

      Since you give so much importance to ” training “, Michael, you should know that Lepore said that he trained on Legacy flight simulator for twenty hours and before September, 29th, he had had only five hours of actual flying on a Legacy plane.

      For an American pilot, we could say his ” training ” was anything but serious.

    • Eddie

      Here lecture yourself a little bit
      statistics accidents by country

      Afghanistan 1 accidents
      Airport 1 accidents
      Algeria 2 accidents
      Angola 3 accidents
      Argentina 5 accidents
      Austria 1 accidents
      Bahamas 1 accidents
      Bahrain 1 accidents
      Belgium 4 accidents
      Botswana 3 accidents
      Brazil 14 accidents
      Cameroon 3 accidents
      Canada 8 accidents
      Chile 3 accidents
      China 11 accidents
      Colombia 4 accidents
      Comoros 1 accidents
      Congo Democratic Republic 1 accidents
      Costa Rica 1 accidents
      Croatia 1 accidents
      Dominican Republic 1 accidents
      Ecuador 1 accidents
      Egypt 3 accidents
      El Salvador 1 accidents
      Ethiopia 1 accidents
      France 13 accidents
      Gabon 2 accidents
      Germany 4 accidents
      Greece 2 accidents
      Guam 1 accidents
      Guatemala 2 accidents
      Hong Kong 2 accidents
      India 18 accidents
      Indian Ocean 1 accidents
      Indonesia 7 accidents
      Iran 2 accidents
      Iraq 5 accidents
      Ireland 1 accidents
      Israel 1 accidents
      Italy 7 accidents
      Ivory Coast 1 accidents
      Japan 5 accidents
      Kazakhstan 1 accidents
      Kenya 1 accidents
      Kuwait 1 accidents
      Libya 2 accidents
      Macedonia 1 accidents
      Malaysia 5 accidents
      Malta 1 accidents
      Mexico 4 accidents
      Morocco 2 accidents
      Mozambique 3 accidents
      Nepal 2 accidents
      Netherlands 1 accidents
      Nicaragua 1 accidents
      Niger 1 accidents
      Nigeria 5 accidents
      Pacific Ocean 1 accidents
      Pakistan 2 accidents
      Panama 2 accidents
      Peru 6 accidents
      Philippines 4 accidents
      Poland 1 accidents
      Portugal 1 accidents
      Puerto Rico 1 accidents
      Romania 1 accidents
      Russia 2 accidents
      Saudi Arabia 3 accidents
      Senegal 1 accidents
      Serbia and Montenegro 1 accidents
      Sierra Leone 1 accidents
      South Korea 6 accidents
      Spain 7 accidents
      Sri Lanka 4 accidents
      Sudan 2 accidents
      Switzerland 1 accidents
      Taiwan 11 accidents
      Tanzania 1 accidents
      Thailand 7 accidents
      Tunisia 1 accidents
      Turkey 7 accidents
      Uganda 1 accidents
      United Arab Emirates 4 accidents
      United Kingdom 5 accidents
      USA 55 accidents
      Venezuela 1 accidents
      Yemen 1 accidents
      ohh by the I pasted this one asshole……….from the NTSB I guess this whole thing is a question of mental capacity I am right???? Polo ??? I perhaps you have the same mental capacity of Bush….or worst…….you want a strong advice do not write
      anything more you’re just wasting time, you already lost the perspective my dear…..get a hike….

    • EDDIE

      POLO the IDIOT .
      That’s for you Polo the brains… perhaps you would like to say all your BS to the families of the murdered
      by your american Pilots…….ohh by the way there is an american too at the list , try to say all the BS to his family too……
      ALVES/LEONARDO
      ANCHIETA/ELCIO
      ARAUJO/AGAMENON
      ARMINDO/ANTONIO
      AZEREDO/GILSON
      AZEVEDO/MARCELO
      AZEVEDO/OTTO BERNARDO
      BARATO/JOSE
      BARBERO/VALDINEI ROBERTO
      BARBOSA/HENRIQUE
      BARRETO/RAFAEL
      BENEDITO/LUIZ ROGÀƒ‰RIO
      BENJAMIM/MARIA TEREZINHA
      BEYER/HUGO
      BONAROSKI/LUIZ
      BORTOZOLO/ERTHELVINE
      BOVI/MARILENE
      BRANCO/KELISON
      BRESSAN/KEILA
      BRITO/ANA CLAUDIA
      CABRERIZO/GUSTAVO
      CALANDRINI/FABIANA
      CALANDRINI/JOÀƒƒO ARIANO
      CARDOSO/CLAUDIO
      CARVALHO/LUIZ
      CARVALHO/VIVIANE
      CAVALCANTE/FRANCISCO
      CAVALCANTE/ROSSANA
      COELHO/JOSE
      COLLI/VANESSA
      COLOGNESE/NELSON
      COPAT/IVAN
      COSTA/ELISABETH
      COSTA/JOSENILDA
      COSTA/GILCLEY
      CRUZ/CARLOS
      CRUZ/MARIA VALERIA
      CUSTODIO/LUIZ
      DA ROCHA/CLAUDIO
      DARC/JOANA
      DE JESUS/OSCAR
      DE JESUS/RUTH
      DIVINO/SILVA
      DUARTE DORIA/NILO
      EUSTAQUIO/THIAGO
      FALCAO/JOSEANE
      FARIAS/FRANCISCO
      FELIPPE/PAULO CESAR
      FERREIRA/MARCELO
      FONTOURA/ANDRE
      FREIXO/LUANA
      GARCIA/FRANCISCO
      GARCIA/HELEN
      GARCIA/PEDRO HENRIQUE
      GODOY/HELIO
      GOMES/REGINA
      GONCALVES SOBRINHO/LAZA
      GUIDI/JULIO
      GUTJAHR/ROLF
      HANCOCK/DOUGLAS
      IGNACIO/JOANA
      KOWALSKI/ANDREAS
      LEAL/JOAO
      LEITE/ANGELA
      LEMOS/LUCAS
      LESQUEVES/EUGENIO
      LIMA/THALITA
      LINS/ETEUVINO
      LLERAS/MARIO
      LLERAS/DANIEL
      LOIOLA/FRANCISCO CHAGAS
      LOPES/MARCELO PAIXAO
      LOPES/MARCELO
      LOPES/MARCELO
      LUCAS/ESDRAS
      MACEDO/OLGA
      MACENA/MARIA AUXILIADORA
      MACHADO/MARLON
      MACHADO/VALDOMIRO
      MAGALHAES/ROSANA
      MAIA/MARIA ZILDA
      MAIA/LAVOSIER
      MALAFAIA/MARIO
      MARQUES/INEZ
      MATTOS/ANTONIO
      MELO/OSMAN
      MELO/IZELIA
      MENDES/JULIO
      MENDES/AUGUSTO
      MENDES/MARINA
      MICHEL/FREDERICK
      MIRANDA/RONIVON
      MORAES/GLECIO
      MOREIRA/PATRICIA
      MOREIRA/QUEZIA
      NARANJO/RAYSSA
      NARDT/FRANCISCO
      NERES/KARLA
      NOE/RONALDO
      OLIVEIRA/CHARLIE
      OLIVEIRA/MARCIO
      OLIVEIRA/FRANCISCO
      OLIVEIRA/ENIO DE
      OLIVEIRA/VANDEMIR
      OLIVEIRA/ANTONIA
      PADILHA/JANINE
      PANIZZI/LOURDES
      PEIXOTO/PEDRO
      PESSOA/ANTONIO
      PIMENTEL/WALTER
      PIVOTTO/ELETA
      PRADO/DORNELIO
      RADESCA/RICARDO
      RAMOS/JOAO ELOI
      REZENDE/ATILA
      REZENDE/ISMAR
      REZENDE/MARIA
      REZENDE/FRANCIELLE
      RICKLY/MARIA DAS GRAÀƒ‡AS
      RIGUEIRA/MARCELO
      ROCHA/SALUSTIANO
      RODRIGUES/MARIA JOSE
      RODRIGUES/ADAIR
      RODRIGUES/ANTONIO
      ROMANO/MAURO
      RONDINI/MICHEL
      ROSA/CLAUDEMIR
      SANT ANNA JUNIOR/MOZART
      SANTOS/PAULO
      SANTOS/ALEXANDRE
      SANTOS/EMANUELLE
      SANTOS/LUIZ
      SILVA/FELIPE
      SILVA/ANA
      SILVA/DANIEL
      SILVA/JUVÀƒÅ NCIO
      SILVA/ROGERIO
      SILVA/MARIO
      SIQUEIRA/PLINIO
      SOUSA/CARLOS
      SOUZA/EDUARDO
      SOUZA/RICARDO
      SOUZA JUNIOR/CARLOS
      TARIFA/RICARDO
      TRINDADE/JOSE
      VIANA/HUEDERFIDEL
      VIANNA/HAMILTON
      XAVIER/SAMANTHA

      Lista de tripulantes do vÀƒ´o 1907 da Gol:
      COMANDANTE DECIO CHAVES JR.
      CO-PILOTO THIAGO JORDÀƒƒO CRUSO
      COMISSÀƒÂRIA RENATA SOUZA FERNANDES
      COMISSÀƒÂRIA SANDRA DA SILVA MARTINS
      COMISSÀƒÂRIO NERISVAN DACKSON CANUTO DA SILVA
      COMISSÀƒÂRIO RODRIGO DE PAULA LIMA

    • EDDIE

      FOR POLO
      You are more idiot and blind than I tought, I am not going to spend more time with it ……the founders of
      america would be very ashamed and disgraced by people or I should say ( creatures like you ) , in response to
      what Hitler would do to Brazil if I say If they had won the war : I guess you know that your “government ” project paper clip took all the nazis High ranking to your beloved country , special those that made “very special cientific” research or should say murder with the Jews and all other races, that without saying the other scientists involved in other sinister research. they all came to america and became very respected citizens , wanna an example: Werner von Braun?? the head of the apollo project , want more??? they were all high ranking nazis, and they all had special treatment why’s that? perhaps you Mr. Know everything may have a right answer!!!
      and just a few hours ago another “pilot” from NEW YORK just crashed on a high rise !!!!!!! what is wrong in this picture???? anybody can tell??? I guess the John Wayne attitude is really catching up if you all, I sincerely hope those “PILOTs” get what they deserve , get locked up for many years and that it will serve as an exemple to you all Americans………….

    • Polo

      For Cacau,
      “Making the inference from your post, you should be able to answer what American imperialism has to do with immigration in the USA, you are the one who made the relation.”

      No sir.If anything, I’m trying to understand it and why it’s still part of our modern day vocabulary for intelligent discussion. Most times when persons of better-than-average intellect uses the word “US imperialism” against a perceived monster (when referring to a nation), it’s because they are acting like chatterboxes for certain modern egomaniac dictators like Chavez and Castro.Guys like these couldn’t have their morning coffee without uttering the word it seems – it helps to keep their sheep awakeduring their hours-long sermons, you know…

      “About your comment whether people know what imperialism means try to listen what people say. The Big Stick diplomacy to Latin America and the Monroe doctrine are old American policies; and the American geopolitics is old in time too.”

      Really, come on. I don’t think we have the time to analize all our history here. In short, Yes, there was the Monroe Doctrine and policies of USA like other nations had back in the day. But really, you need to catch up with TODAY’s events and policies.
      For example, show me how TODAY the US govt. has Brazil backed against the wall, threatening, intimidating and with American ‘gunboats’ off the coast off Rio. Is Brasil really part of a US ’empire’ ????
      And McDonalds restaurants on every corner in Rio doesn’t count, my friend. As a matter of fact, I could care less if you don’t eat there and McDonalds goes bankrupt. I don’t like the food anyway.
      “Listen to what people say?”
      My take on US – or anywhere else – “imperialism” as it relates to TODAY’s events: If 50,000 people say a stupid thing, it’s STILL a stupid thing.

      ” But forget the expression American imperialism for a while, what do you think of the fact that peoples were, in the past, and are, presently, being assaulted by the USA or it’s help? “
      You mean Hitler’s Nazis, Japanese empire, fascists, communists, kings, dictators, regimes of the 20th century who combined are responsible for more death and misery than all our recorded human history? Read up on it.
      Awww, forget it.
      Again, I’m not going into a lengthy lecture on past history. Today (as before with murderous regimes) the people being “assaulted”, persecuted and killed without mercy are terrorists and those who support(ed) them.
      Clear enough?
      Anyone that has a problem with this deserves to be a victim of islamic terrorists. Your day may come too, I’m sorry to say, just for being who you are.
      What you may think of as stubborness and arrogance is just a realization of today’s harsh reality just as it was realized before in our bloody human history. There has always existed people and nations who will kill and enslave you for who you are, and if America ever once set out to do that, then there wouldn’t be a single living soul left on this Earth today. It was a good thing that Brasil fought alongside the US and allies against Hitler. You do realize what Hitler would have done with Brasil had he won right?
      Today I’m not so sure many countries would have the same resolve to do the same, unfortunately. Sometimes I don’t think even we could ever do it again with as much success.

      “And how are the new immigrants being perceived there in the USA? “

      I’m not sure I understand your question but let’s just say they ARE still being RECEIVED with open arms as long as they are doing it legally. Come and see for yourself, there is no one here burning Brazilian flags – not even Iranian.

      “Do you think EddieÀ¢€™s comments are an article he copied and pasted?? I donÀ¢€™t think soÀ¢€¦ The guy wrote a good piece of writing there, maybe you confused it.”

      Yes I do, and no I’m not confused.You liked it, great. No problem.
      Eddie’s very short reply should give an idea as to what his mental capacity is…

    • Polo

      To Anna Kissed…
      Although I’m no ‘yankee’, I’ll give you my perspective; and if you’d let up on the provocative stereotyped name-calling and try and show some respect, you’d know that word doesn’t apply to any Americans today. Yankees were the northern people fighting the south during our civil war and that was 142 YEARS AGO. Would it be fair to classify all brasileiros TODAY as just portuguese colonials?
      I will admit that there still are a few ignorant southerners(of the USA) who use the work ‘yankee’ to insult their fellow countrymen that happen to reside in the northeastern USA.

      Your Questions:
      Q – If this terrible accident had happened over the USA would the pilots if they were foreign nationals have not had their passports held by the US authorities until at least the facts of the case were clearer?
      In my view the US authorities would have acted in the same manor as the Brazilian Authorities have.

      A -AIlthough I’m no FAA, NTSB official, or federal prosecutor, I would guess the answer as being YES, probably and rightly so. A crash like this with 154 fatalities IS a big deal.

      Q – The pilots are not in custody and are free to do what they want other than leave the country, so why are the Yankees claiming that something is wrong?

      I’m not one of them. I think it’s perfectly right that the Legacy pilots are being held pending the outcome. The worst that’s happening to them is just an inconvienience as whatever plans they had to do back in USA are on hold now. The magnitude of the accident certainly warrants them having them stay. I see no problem with what brazilian authorities are doing so far as long as they are treating the pilots fairly and innocent until proven guilty. If it turns out the pilots are proven to have been criminally negligent in their behavior, then I say they should be criminally charged and punished with civil penalties. I would hope that GOL and the families would be able to sue and recover massive monetary damages from the insurance companies representing ExcelAire. Additionally, having proven criminal negligence, I think it would be good for the brazilian government to ban ExcelAire from ever flying brazilian airspace again. This outcome would be appropriate and just for anywhere in the world.

      Q – Contrast this case with that of the 3 British bankers wanted over the collapse of energy giant Enron, no-one died yet the US authorities have withheld their passports until their trial that could take 2 years to start, why are they not allowed home to the UK to wait for the trial to start?
      IÀ¢€™ll be very interested in your answers to the above questions

      A – I know nothing about the British guys but I’ll say I’m not surprised they were held, if that was the case. The Enron case was a Big deal as it involved massive fraud and impropriety which caused many many people to lose money and damaged people’s trust in the system.

      I hope that helps….

    • Polo

      written by Justice, 2006-10-11 08:41:14

      “That’s maybe why five years after September, 11 th, there was no trial, no judgement of the people who financed terrorrism and Al-Quaeda. One of them is named in the lawsuit from the families of people who died in September,11th: Turki al Faisal.
      Even if there are many proofs against him, Turki al Faisal was never judged and worst of all, he was named ambassador of Saudi Arabia in Washington. ” —end quote.

      Another Michael Moore fan…how delightful to know he still influences impressionable minds all over the world.
      You’re certainly entitled to believe what you want.

    • cacau

      re to Polo
      Polo wrote:

      It’s Polo, not Yowzaa
      written by Polo, 2006-10-10 17:33:05

      Eddie wrote,
      “I understand that the comment Yowzaaa is full of arrogance and reflects the general attitude of Americans. Let’s say that despite the fact that America is a superpower and has the capacity to rule the world (and is actually doing so), I think that European model is far ahead socially, politically and even culturally.
      What did America offer the world apart from imperialism, big corporations that exploit poor populations in the undeveloped world and of course their hamburgers (produts of very elaborate and healthy cuisine).
      I think that their foreign policy is based on disrespect of the other and its sole purpose is to crush the rest of the world under its feet in order to preserve american privileges.” —–end quote.

      Here’s a case example of the politicized garbage I was referring to in my previous post.
      Seriously man, get your head out of Hugo Chavez’s ass and speak more intelligently. All that ignorant revolutionary rhetoric has been through the recycle bin more times than we can count, so it’s boring and doesn’t have the same propaganda effect it did 50 years ago. It’s the creed of the ignorant uninformed reactionary.
      Do you have any real idea how truly diverse the USA is? Been here?
      How about the fact that for 200 years many of the smartest, most hard-working people throughout the world emigrate here and thrive – and many of whom send American ‘imperialist’ dollars back home to support miserable people like you, and many other nation’s ECONOMIES – who then trash the USA?
      And the 9+ million muslims happily residing here doing the same thing? Mexican, Cuban, Chinese, African, etc. etc .etc. Get the picture?
      Brazil is hardly in any position to preach tolerance and much less Europe. Been to Europe lately?
      We’ve got more social tolerance here than you’ve got “bananas” over there, (as you say).

      Cacau you asked,
      written by Polo, 2006-10-11 05:02:51

      It is my curiosity and I take the opportunity to ask. What does the immigration to the USA has to do with the American imperialism?

      LOL… I’d sure as hell like to know too.
      What the fuck is ‘American imperialism’ anyway? I see it used like a buzzword but none of the people using it seem to have a clue either as to its meaning – if any. Just another sound byte meant to provoke someone and make a cheap political statement, I guess…
      AND WHY is this continued to be discussed here anyway!?

      Now me:

      Making the inference from your post, you should be able to answer what American imperialism has to do with immigration in the USA, you are the one who made the relation. About your comment whether people know what imperialism means try to listen what people say. The Big Stick diplomacy to Latin America and the Monroe doctrine are old American policies; and the American geopolitics is old in time too. But forget the expression American imperialism for a while, what do you think of the fact that peoples were, in the past, and are, presently, being assaulted by the USA or it’s help? And how are the new immigrants being perceived there in the USA?

      Do you think EddieÀ¢€™s comments are an article he copied and pasted?? I donÀ¢€™t think soÀ¢€¦ The guy wrote a good piece of writing there, maybe you confused it. YouÀ¢€™re strangeÀ¢€¦

    • baba

      @Michael Davis
      I really do know much about airplanes :-), but thanks for the explaination! IÀ‚´m telling you, the transponder used was not included in FAA AD (as the FAA stated) but IF Embrear would have known it and second this has noting to do with not responding to the ATC. As you know for sure this are two different things! But in case they still would have had to follow the IFR filed flightplan, BECAUSE THATÀ‚´S A RULE( The regulations are saying you have to stay about 7 min on the actual course and alt. after last ATC contact and afterwards return to your filed flightplan). You just donÀ‚´t stay on the same heading and alt. like the legacy crew! As a pilot you know that…..

      By the way you “usually” need a minimum of 1000 hours flight time in your log book to enter GOL.

    • Dave Stock

      A question for the Yankees posting here?
      If this terrible accident had happened over the USA would the pilots if they were foreign nationals have not had their passports held by the US authorities until at least the facts of the case were clearer?

      In my view the US authorities would have acted in the same manor as the Brazilian Authorities have.

      The pilots are not in custody and are free to do what they want other than leave the country, so why are the Yankees claiming that something is wrong?

      Contrast this case with that of the 3 British bankers wanted over the collapse of energy giant Enron, no-one died yet the US authorities have withheld their passports until their trial that could take 2 years to start, why are they not allowed home to the UK to wait for the trial to start?

      IÀ¢€™ll be very interested in your answers to the above questions

    • Justice

      All men are equal…but some are more equal than others…
      [i] Steve wrote: “The chance of someone going to jail is far less then the in the US. Guaranteed after the hyperbole is over the sanctions in the US can be tremendous.[/i]

      😉 😀

      That’s maybe why O.J.Simpson was set free and Patricia Hearst went to jail for only two years instead of seven.

      That’s maybe why five years after September, 11 th, there was no trial, no judgement of the people who financed terrorrism and Al-Quaeda. One of them is named in the lawsuit from the families of people who died in September,11th: Turki al Faisal.
      Even if there are many proofs against him, Turki al Faisal was never judged and worst of all, he was named ambassador of Saudi Arabia in Washington.

      So, let’s say that concerning “… AND JUSTICE FOR ALL “, I don’t think Brazil has anything to envy U.S..

    • Justice

      To Ford 4×4
      [i]Ford4x4 wrote: “Justice THANK YOU. That is what I have been hoping to see so that I could ask someone who would clarify the question I had regarding the pilots saying they were flying what they filed. Is that THE actual flight plan??? “[/i]

      Welcome. 😉
      Yes, it is THE actual flight plan. A reporter from Globo Tv, Eduardo Faustini, got a transcript of the official investigating session from the Civil Police in Mato Grosso. At this session, there were Lepore, Palladino, the vice-consul from American Embassy in Brasilia, a lawyer hired by Embraer and an English / Portuguese interpreter.

      Among other things, Lepore said that the flight plan was made by Embraer. He added that there was a copy of the flight plan in SÀƒ£o JosÀƒ© dos Campos. Lepore said that he followed strictly the directions given in the flight plan and that he never changed it. He said that during the 90 minutes flight, he kept to 37,000 feet.

      Then, it was Palladino turn. He confirmed that the flight plan was made by Embraer and that he had a copy of it. He declared that another copy of the plan was in SÀƒ£o JosÀƒ© dos Campos. However, even if Palladino said he had this copy, [b] he didn’t show it to the police[/b]. Palladino said that from SÀƒ£o JosÀƒ© dos Campos up to Brasilia, communication between Legacy and the ATC was working.

      There are several contradictions between Lepore’s and Palladino’s versions concerning the moment of the crash and on the fact that the transponder was working or not.

      In order to know what was really written in the flight plan, the Globo Tv reporter, got a copy of it at the SÀƒ£o JosÀƒ© dos Campos base. It is written that from SÀƒ£o JosÀƒ© dos Campos up to Brasilia, the Legacy should be at 37,000 feet. Once over Brasilia, they should change to 36,000 feet. Then, finally, at the Teres point, they should climb to 38,000 feet. They should have climbed to 38,000 feet thirty-five minutes before the moment of the crash.
      Instead, they flew at 37,000 feet all way long.

      You can see the full report and the photo of the flight plan at:

      http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Brasil/0,,AA1304734-5598,00.html

      For the photo of the flight plan:

      http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Brasil/foto/0,,6245521,00.jpg

    • EDDIE

      whatever polo shit……….Absit invidia
      I think this is becoming kind of personal…..why don’t you fuck yourself…asshole……

    • Polo

      Cacau you asked,
      It is my curiosity and I take the opportunity to ask. What does the immigration to the USA has to do with the American imperialism?

      LOL… I’d sure as hell like to know too.
      What the fuck is ‘American imperialism’ anyway? I see it used like a buzzword but none of the people using it seem to have a clue either as to its meaning – if any. Just another sound byte meant to provoke someone and make a cheap political statement, I guess…
      AND WHY is this continued to be discussed here anyway!?
      ————————————————————————-
      EDDIE my friend, if you’re done ‘shitting’ yourself to pieces I hate to tell you I didn’t read all your masterpiece. Problem is you don’t seem to think much for yourself. Your COPY & PASTE activity didn’t go unnoticed. You little cheat! LOL
      BTW, nothing there I haven’t already read years and years ago, so…..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
      I’m curious though EDDIE, did YOU fully read and comprehend what you COPY & PASTED?
      In my opinion some of that article is actually true!
      Love how you added your own little sig line at the end, “So Polo shit and alikes where did you grow up in the moon perhaps…” THAT”S PRICELESS!

    • EDDIE

      whatever polo shit……….Absit invidia
      Part 3
      The arrogance of America will soon be headed straight down a nightmarish slippery slope of painful ruin and disgrace.Figuratively speaking, the U.S. resembles Invincible Mario from the classic video game Super Mario Brothers. The Starman character, which gives Mario his invincibility, represents the À¢€œofficial world reserve currencyÀ¢€Â status of the U.S. dollar. So many Americans seem to think they can have it all, that they can run all over the world with flashing colors, bumping into everything and wreaking havoc with impunity, while À¢€œbuyingÀ¢€Â fancy new houses and cars on cheap credit. Too many naive Americans believe that Invincible Mario can just do whatever he wants. But what if he falls down a bottomless pit? Or what if the time runs out? Likewise, what if foreigners decide to stop buying U.S. debt and start dumping their U.S. dollars, and what if the dollar becomes worthless?À¢€œ America is living on borrowed money, and therefore, borrowed time.À¢€Â Time has truly been running short on the U.S.A. these past few years. Now, the Mario game music has been playing faster (since the Y2K stock-market-top warning). The Federal ReserveÀ¢€™s monetary printing press, along with the U.S. government budget and deficits, and military interventionism abroad have all sped up and are hyperdancing to this faster Mario beat in an effort to keep the system alive for a little longer! But soon, Invincible MarioÀ¢€™s haste will cause him to stumble and fall down a bottomless pit, or the time will expire. Either way, click here and listen to what will happen to Emperor U.S.A. Mario! America is like ancient Rome , and when the dollar crashes, the troops are cominÀ¢€™ home (to an impoverished nation, I might add).Well, letÀ¢€™s move on. The good news for the Arabs (and other foreign U.S. loathers) is that they donÀ¢€™t have to defeat America . America will defeat itself. The U.S. will fall on its own sword of monetary inflation and debt, and will suffocate on the super-dense smell of its own arrogance, just as every empire did throughout history. What goes up must come down…and the bigger they are, the harder they fall! But if you think about it, America truly needs another Great Depression — thatÀ¢€™s correct — it needs one. Americans need to learn some simple lessons in life. They need to learn that they cannot get away with taking more from life than what they put into life.They need to learn that a personÀ¢€™s financial net worth is not determined by the size of his or her mortgage or car loans, or credit-card debt.Americans need to learn the virtue of saving, and the importance of not blindly following the crowd and mainstream press when investing.Americans need to learn firsthand about the financial and cultural fallacies of big government — especially when it starts to collapse in the coming years. This includes government-business partnerships, socialistic welfare handouts, draconian healthcare regulations, government-run schooling, and the insidious War on Drugs.And finally, the U.S. military-industrial complex (i.e., the worst polluter, the most ridiculous waste of money, and biggest provoker of terrorism in the world) needs to go bankrupt in order to restore hope and dignity for the future of humankind.Another Great Depression would negate the need for a libertarian revolution, since the corrupt government would simply collapse unto itself instead of the bloody alternative! Remember the U.S.S.R.À¢€™s demise in the 1980s? It, too, was a healthy and necessary event, wasnÀ¢€™t it?
      So Polo shit and alikes where did you grow up in the moon perhaps, I strong advise go back to school or better go to Europe or south American Universities there perhaps you will get to your senses, signing out…………

    • EDDIE

      whatever polo shit……….Absit invidia
      part 1
      Mirror, mirror, on the wall: whoˢ۪s the most arrogant nation of all?
      Is it that country where everybody thinks they own the world because they have À¢€œperpetualÀ¢€Â economic prosperity? Is it that place where people think war is just a cool video game on TV, dropping bombs on innocent civilians in an effort to À¢€œrid the world of evil-doersÀ¢€Â? Is it that enchanted land where À¢€œdeficits donÀ¢€™t matter,À¢€Â where anyone with a pulse can buy a big fancy house and two brand-new Lexus SUVÀ¢€™s with cheap credit, and call himself À¢€œrichÀ¢€Â because of it? Yeah . . . you guessed it, ladies and gentlemen. ThatÀ¢€™s America the Beautiful: the Unsinkable Titanic and Invincible Mario of the world. ItÀ¢€™s the nation where the pungent stench of arrogance emanating from it has become so dense, you could stab it with a fork and eat green eggs & ham with it while all the jerks on Fox News are blaring at your face because the TV volume is up so loud.
      In fact, if you step back in awe and get a good whiff of it, youˢ۪ll notice three main scents of pure pompousness: cultural, political, and financial, which the U.S. emits voraciously with vigor and gusto.
      Culturally, Americans seem to think the whole world should bow down to them, speak their language, practice their predominant religion, and worship their extravagant way of life. How else could Pat Buchanan have made a name for himself if it werenˢ۪t for this widespread cultural-superiority complex?
      In fact, I personally cannot count the number of times that someone cringed when I played pop music thatÀ¢€™s sung in a non-English language. À¢€œWhat the hell are they saying?À¢€Â I would hear in an angry and condescending voice. (Notice that people in other countries hear American pop music in English and sing along joyfully, even if they donÀ¢€™t understand the language.) If you really want to catch a strong whiff of this American cultural snobbishness, just tell a bunch of U.S. citizens that you support the idea of open immigration, and youÀ¢€™ll get a huge haughty hailstorm of fun!

    • EDDIE

      whatever polo shit……….Absit invidia
      part 2
      If you possess specific things, itÀ¢€™s because youÀ¢€™ve earned them. ItÀ¢€™s because others want to supply you with particular goods and services in exchange for what you are giving them. They arenÀ¢€™t yours by birthright. Perhaps you could learn some new skills and offer people something that theyÀ¢€™re willing to pay you adequately for. But donÀ¢€™t give everyone all this crap about being a À¢€œvictimÀ¢€Â to outsourcing and immigration. Anyway, because of all this financial arrogance, the U.S. debt-to-GDP ratio is at its highest level in American history, and appears to be on the verge of collapse. The consumer savings rate is at an all-time low, real estate and the stock market are far overvalued by all historical standards, and the U.S. exhibits record trade deficits and government budget shortfalls. Another Great Depression appears to be written in stone — no matter how the politicians and central bankers try to avoid it. And unlike the last one, which occurred during the 1930s and À¢€˜40s, the U.S. dollar isnÀ¢€™t backed by gold in any way whatsoever. And unlike Japan , thereÀ¢€™s no large trade surplus to keep the fiat currency afloat.Most Americans have never thought through what would happen to their jobs, lifestyles, and retirement plans if foreigners altogether stopped funding U.S. debt and liquidated their U.S. dollar holdings, and the dollar lost its À¢€œworld reserve currencyÀ¢€Â status. What would happen if the dollar became practically worthless, as all fiat currencies did at some point in history? À¢€œBut weÀ¢€™re Americans!À¢€Â they say. À¢€œWeÀ¢€™re endowed by God to lead this world, and that could never happen to us!À¢€Â Well, since we have now examined all three of these arrogant American stenches (cultural, political, and financial), let me pose a simple question that very few U.S. citizens seem to be asking themselves: Are you freer than you were 10, 30, and 50 years ago? Are you freer? For most people, the answer is a resounding À¢€œNo.À¢€Â America À¢€™s prosperity used to be the result of the high levels of individual liberty and the general respect for private property that U.S. inhabitants previously enjoyed. But with the government now involved in nearly every aspect of their lives, how much of their present wealth can actually be attributed to freedom, and what amount of their affluence can be ascribed instead to the unsustainable debt bubble? Americans wonÀ¢€™t like the answer. Next, what if we were to travel around the world, and ask everyone else if they are freer than they were 10, 30, and 50 years ago? The majority of them would probably say, À¢€œYes,À¢€Â especially those in East Asia . The United States used to be the undisputed freest country in the world, but today, that figure is probably much more ambiguous.Why did Americans become so arrogant? First, we must understand what arrogance is. It actually has nothing to do with pride, which is healthy. Instead, arrogance is really a cover-up for psychological insecurity. Anxious people exhibit various ways of masking their insecurity, and a snobby attitude is one of those false behaviors. So the real question is how did Americans become so insecure? Maybe theyÀ¢€™ve forgotten how to enjoy the simple things in life, such as good music, interesting books and articles, the pleasant company of friends and family, and numerous inexpensive activities. Perhaps U.S. citizens are worried about their careers. Maybe theyÀ¢€™re apprehensive about slowly losing their individual freedoms during the past several decades (and especially since September 11, 2001 ), while much of the world is gaining ground on them. Who knows . . . .As Americans look around and see the problems that are currently plaguing the country, theyÀ¢€™ve all developed their own little scapegoats. Mainstream liberals (i.e., À¢€œneoliberalsÀ¢€Â) point their finger at À¢€œselfishnessÀ¢€Â and À¢€œgreed.À¢€Â But people have been selfish and greedy for millions of years. Mainstream conservatives (i.e., À¢€œneoconservativesÀ¢€Â), on the other hand, are a real hoot. They like to lay the blame on atheists, immigrants, gays and lesbians, and the 2004 Super Bowl halftime show. To this laughable neoconservative nonsense, I must ask which is worse for children: reading Mark Twain and Carl Sagan, playing with piÀƒ±atas, listening to Elton John, and watching rap videos on MTV? Or observing their parents overload themselves with massive debt in an effort to keep up with the Joneses, while being told to pursue the College Education Bubble and to follow their parentsÀ¢€™ so-called À¢€œconservativeÀ¢€Â examples?
      Of course, the real problem is a leviathan regime that smothers everyone with draconian regulations and separates people from the consequences of their own actions through the forcible redistribution of wealth, but youÀ¢€™d never know it by listening to the claptraps in the mainstream media.So Yowzaa shit, if there is a time to be À¢€œbearishÀ¢€Â on America , that time is now.

    • cacau

      “How the hell two modern aircraft were at the same altitude, at the same position, at THE EXACT SAME TIME IS THE CAUSE! L.O.C= Lack of Communication that is how. Now the question to answer is why there was L. O. C. I would really like to know what CINDACATA 1 and 4 Brasilia Center(ATC Center) has to say seeing that was their area of coverage.”

      This a question that it is going to be answered ending the investigation. But braz air authorities are asking why the Legacy pilots did not answer the radio. The black boxes will show if it was recorded 7 attempts to talk to the pilots from braz air controllers.Some questions remain, but most importantly why the pilots did not follow the air plan that they knew very well even withou communication? It is said its an international rule and plain commom sense. The trasponder worked right after the collision. That made speculation grow and maybe only the pilots will know what really happened with them, there are 2 in the Legacy. Maybe Mr. Sharky could tell us, but he doesnt seem so reliable since he changed his version more than twice over the moment he was there in the cockpit.

      It is my curiosity and I take the opportunity to ask. What does the immigration to the USA has to do with the American imperialism? Yes it is good the refugees’ acceptance in the USA, you have this to be proud of, I would. But do you think that takes away the fact that peoples were and are being assaulted by the USA or it’s help? how are new immigrants perceived there? :-

    • Michael Davis

      JONY: SIVAM – System for the Vigilance of the Amazon SIVAM LONG RANGE SOILD STATE RADARS 1.4 BILLION DOLLAR PROJECT OF Lockheed- Martin and Raytheon. The most sophisticated air surveillance, air traffic control and air communication system in the world the system consist of over 115 radar arrays that rival the Ageis system and what does that have to do with answering a radio call and talking to the PHYSICAL ATC CONTROLLER or better yet if this system is so sophisticated and covers the Amazon and is worth 1.4 billion dollars well it sure as hell did not work for the 155 lost souls in the AMAZON. I might be a little slow on the uptake nowadays, but I really don’t see your point. And by the way try something a little bit more challenging the next time. I did not even have to leave the beach to answer this.

    • jony

      Hey michael… copy cat youuuu!!!
      So I’m impressed with your ability to read something and immediately post here in this forum. I could also suggest to the “magnificent” some sites on model planes where you can dazzle all the kids with your bla…bla… bla…How does it feel to leave on a free country other than your own? Did you go to the beach today? How is your tan?
      Well… I’m going to give you some titles for your next research… Fortunately for some and unfortunately for others the region where the accident occured is within the SIVAM system. So this is the word of the day for you…SIVAM. Find out what this system is capable of doing and please let me us all know, and maybe you can help to explain to some of us what the brazilian air space and their investigator’s teams can do with that, and… who knows…perhaps even real time satellite imaging. I know you have a lot to read Mickey…a lot to read…

    • Marcelo

      Gosh
      You guys have no hearts… ShinBet I believe in God and know the jsutice we’ll be done… You may not like Brazilians, Arabs, and whateverm but those were PEOPLE… HUMAN BEEINGS…. This is just disgusting, it’s unspeakable.

      No comments…

      This will be the last comment I make here, no reason arguing with people like that.

      Sincerely
      – Marcelo Lopes

    • Polo

      Reasoning? Hah…
      Michael Davis how foolish of you to try and reason with this lynch mob…if you’re askng them to let go of their emotional blind rage for just a moment to hear other rational points of view, then you’re robbing them of their fun.
      Brazilian media must really be whipping them up into a holy frenzy.

      So who’s at fault? I’m still waiting to hear.

    • Michael Davis

      Justice: First I am IN NO WAY PLACING BLAME ON THE GOL PILOTS!!! What I know about GOL as an airline they have an excellent record for safety and customer service and have had tremendous growth in the last two years and should be considered with pride and admiration when tallked about. I was trying to illustrate how even a very exeperinced pilot can overstress their aircraft. Pilots are human and even though with all the intensive training I am quite sure the GOL pilots receive we are still human. All you can hope is that when placed in an emergency that the redundancies of your training and flight systems will overcome the emergency and get you and your passengers home safe and sound , but that is not always the case as I was trying to show with American Airlines flight 587. Ford 4×4: Yes I do know that owners of ExeclAire and some of their crew, and I am in no way vouchering for them in any shape fashion or form. I am merely pointing out that after seeing the damage photos of the Legacy and reading on the GOL being in a freefall and hitting nosedown well us “Fake Pilots” can draw some conclusions as too what might have happened. If you read my earlier post and read the links I posted about the AA Flt# 587 and about the FAA AD about the transponder then you can start to get a clear picture of what might have caused this accident. As a so -called ” Fake Pilot” I can not nor will I discuss the training methods of GOL or ExcelAire, but I can say that your post about pilot pairing is dead on and well once again read the links I posted and you can start to draw your own conclusions. I will say that the transponder issue on or off really is no big deal it could have and should prevented this accident if it was working and on,but the transponder being off did not cause it. How the hell two modern aircraft were at the same altitude, at the same position, at THE EXACT SAME TIME IS THE CAUSE! L.O.C= Lack of Communication that is how. Now the question to answer is why there was L. O. C. I would really like to know what CINDACATA 1 and 4 Brasilia Center(ATC Center) has to say seeing that was their area of coverage. As for the pilots of the legacy turning off the transponder too show off their aircraft is hard to swallow because all they had to do is call ATC and ask permission for a block of airspaceto do manuvers, let say from FL330 TO 370 for 30nm and if there is no traffic in the vicinity then ATC usually grants the request. the would tell you to maintain FL330 block 370 for 30 easy no problems ,maybe that is something us so called “Fake Pilots” are taught. Baba: the FAA AD is for the Legacy 100% the question is the date being that the Legacy was brand new 2 weeks from what I was told was in built with the Honeywell problem or was it corrected during production. Here is the description of the Legacy The Embraer Legacy 600 is a business jet derivative of the ERJ-145 family of commercial jets. The Legacy is based on the shortened ERJ-135 model, but includes added range with extra fuel tanks and added winglets, similar to those on the ERJ-145XR. Launched in 2000 at the Farnborough Air Show, the Legacy is capable of carrying 16 passengers in comfort for 3,250 nm. As of recently, the Legacy family also includes the Legacy Shuttle, which applies the range of the Legacy to a passenger cabin configuration similar to the ERJ-135.

    • Polo

      It’s Polo, not Yowzaa
      Eddie wrote,
      “I understand that the comment Yowzaaa is full of arrogance and reflects the general attitude of Americans. Let’s say that despite the fact that America is a superpower and has the capacity to rule the world (and is actually doing so), I think that European model is far ahead socially, politically and even culturally.
      What did America offer the world apart from imperialism, big corporations that exploit poor populations in the undeveloped world and of course their hamburgers (produts of very elaborate and healthy cuisine).
      I think that their foreign policy is based on disrespect of the other and its sole purpose is to crush the rest of the world under its feet in order to preserve american privileges.” —–end quote.

      Here’s a case example of the politicized garbage I was referring to in my previous post.
      Seriously man, get your head out of Hugo Chavez’s ass and speak more intelligently. All that ignorant revolutionary rhetoric has been through the recycle bin more times than we can count, so it’s boring and doesn’t have the same propaganda effect it did 50 years ago. It’s the creed of the ignorant uninformed reactionary.
      Do you have any real idea how truly diverse the USA is? Been here?
      How about the fact that for 200 years many of the smartest, most hard-working people throughout the world emigrate here and thrive – and many of whom send American ‘imperialist’ dollars back home to support miserable people like you, and many other nation’s ECONOMIES – who then trash the USA?
      And the 9+ million muslims happily residing here doing the same thing? Mexican, Cuban, Chinese, African, etc. etc .etc. Get the picture?
      Brazil is hardly in any position to preach tolerance and much less Europe. Been to Europe lately?
      We’ve got more social tolerance here than you’ve got “bananas” over there, (as you say).

      Sometimes I wonder if anybody in Brazil really cares as much about seeing the outcome of the accident investigation as they seem to do about lynching American pilots, reporters, and trashing a entire nation with stereotypes and suspicions bordering on paranoia.
      Congratulations!

    • baba

      @Mr. Davis
      “FAA ADs and NOTAMS for the Legacy the TCAS on the Legacy which is a composite of an ERJ-135 and a ERJ-145XR and both A/C are mentioned in the AD and the NOTAM as having a malfunction with the tranponder as related to an unknown stand-by of the TCAS II.”

      According to the FAA it was a different one.

      http://oglobo.globo.com/pais/mat/2006/10/07/286024963.asp (Port. only)

    • Steve

      More freedom in Brasil;
      The chance of someone going to jail is far less then the in the US. Guaranteed after the hyperbole is over the sanctions in the US can be tremendous. Look at the ratio of prisons and law enforcement in the US as opposed to Brasil and the statitics will speak for themselves.

    • Ford4x4

      A burning desire…
      After reading some of the morally reprehensible statements set forth earlier, and mulling it over in my mind, I have a burning desire to ask a few hard-core questions of my own.

      First of all, if anyone on this site does have over 10000 of flight time (or any significant time in the cocpit of a jet), then they would know that a good amount of time jets leave contrails that can be seen for quite a distance. (Of course this is if the conditions are right. This may or may not have been one of those times.) Oncoming traffic is harder to spot leaving contrails. BUT, since they were not in radio contact with either Brasilia or Manaus (my understanding is that they were called 7 times – 5 by Brasilia and 2 by Manaus), then the Legacy pilots absolutely should have been trying to contact Brasilia or Manaus or, more correctly, BOTH.

      A few more questions…

      1. Were they being distracted by others, as has been printed by at least one person on the Legacy, that were in the cockpit at various times.

      2. Was the captain out of the cockpit shortly before the collison as has been printed? No matter what the explantion is, no one leaves the cockpit if there is any doubt or uncertainty, especially in regards to communication with ATC. MOST ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE NEVER FLOWN THERE BEFORE!

      Furthermore…

      IF mr. davis knows Excelaire as he claims to, then he knows that they are a 135 operator. And if he knows that, then he knows that the training a 135 operator receives is nothing more than passing the checkride on the last day and filling in squares. As long as a manuever is merely adeqate, you move on to the next one. No questions asked. Two days of that and then a “practice” checkride. The next day the checkride.

      Knowing that you know ExcelAire too, Mr. Davis, then I’m assuming that you are also aware of their policy of ‘pairing’, i.e., pair a strong captain with a weak co-pilot and vice versa. Unfortunately, weak co-pilots are regularly promoted to captain (against recommendations) when personnel is at a premium, therefore, teaming a weak captain with an equally weak co-pilot. Is anyone else here aware that this was the first time these two pilots flew together? Then again… counting the flight they flew to Brazil on, this would, technically, have been their second flight together.

      Justice THANK YOU. That is what I have been hoping to see so that I could ask someone who would clarify the question I had regarding the pilots saying they were flying what they filed. Is that THE actual flight plan???

      Corporate and 135 operators use a service to file flight plans. Depending on the service, you can get a good flight plan that files the right altitudes for travel (heading EAST {compass 0-180 is odd altitues i.e. 35000, 37000, 39000} heading WEST {compass 180-360 is even altitudes 34000, 36000, 3800}). Some services just file a flight plan. In some countries (like Brazil) you will get a copy of the flight plan filed by the local service or operator that you are using. This flight plan is in the ICAO format, the same format that Justice has provided, which is, of course, the format used in International flying.

      The flight plan Justice provided leaves little doubt that the Legacy was clearly in the wrong. You do not sit by and do nothng if you have lost communication, especially if you have a filed flight plan that shows you should be changing altitudes (as has been suggested elswhere by the alpa rep I believe). If this is actually the flight plan given to the Legacy pilots, then they are probably guilty of negligence, unless they recieved a clearance that changed that flight plan.

      In my opinion, these are some of the questions and issues that need to be addressed and answered. There is no place in a factual investigation for such abject cruelty or petty political sniping… or at least there shouldn’t be.

    • baba

      @ all pilots
      If you have no communication with ATC you ALWAYS follow your IFR filed flightplan. This is a rule and everybody who claims to be a pilot should know that.

      Baba

    • antiameba

      “I love that part: ” soft torture “… I wonder what they mean by that.
      I would like to ” soft torture ” George Bush and ShinBet myself…
      Nothing too harsh…I would make them take off all their clothes…slowly..slowly… Then, they would slide in a long toboggan ( the Wet and Wild style ) covered with sharp blades…and at the end of the ride, they would sink in a pool of acid.
      Now, the question is: ” which one will be the first ? ” “

      this was err.. funny…i like black humour

    • antiameba

      I found it funny reading the pilots would be sodomized in prison and have fun themselves. Also the excuse that the American Joe Shark and NYT, other media and the American pilots association and its patriot fanatics are not making the accident a war against Brazil. And the guy being dismasked, i rofl.

    • Justice

      These are facts
      [img]http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Brasil/foto/0,,6245521,00.jpg[/img]

      Flightplan proves that Lepore and Palladino did not follow the instructions. From the Teres point on, they should be at 38,000 feet. They were at 37,000 feet all way long.

    • Justice

      Freedom of expression
      [i]Jimmy wrote: “I see too many posts disagreeing with another post, then going on to rant about “Brazilians” or “Americans”. Please stop. If you want to disagree with someone, fine, that is what this forum is for. But don’t resort to criticizing a whole nation of people…bla, bla,bla “[/i]

      Jimmy, since you’re an American, have you ever heard about something called: ” Freedom of expression ” ? It concerns all people in the world ( not only Americans )…
      So please, be nice and avoid telling people what they should write or not and in what way.
      It is so pretentious…it is so…American…

      Otherwise, create your own website where you’ll be able to censor all the messages you don’t like and keep the ones of people who think [b]exactly[/b] like you.

      [i]Michael Davis wrote: ” If anyone is intersested in reading detailed reports on how incorrect pilot input can overstress the airframe and lead to structural failure… “[/i]

      Michael, why can’t you see beyond your blinding patriotism ? Why the ” incorrect pilot overstress ” could [b] only[/b] come from the Brazilian pilot of flight 1907 ?
      Lepore and Paladino were at 37,000 feet. They have already admitted it. They should be at 37,000 feet from SÀƒ£o JosÀƒ© dos Campos up to Brasilia…then, they should change to 36,000 feet. After the Teres point, they should climb to 38,000 feet. Instead, they stayed at 37,000 feet all way long, up to the moment of the crash.
      These are [b]facts[/b] which have already been proven.
      So, please, try to get out of this American habit in which ” Americans are always right and the rest of the world is always wrong. “.

      [i]Eddie wrote: ” The Bush AdministrationÀ¢€™s real agenda likely has at least three goals: first, to allow CIA interrogators to continue to engage in À¢€œsoft torture,À¢€Â [/i]

      I love that part: ” soft torture “… I wonder what they mean by that.
      I would like to ” soft torture ” George Bush and ShinBet myself…
      Nothing too harsh…I would make them take off all their clothes…slowly..slowly… Then, they would slide in a long toboggan ( the Wet and Wild style ) covered with sharp blades…and at the end of the ride, they would sink in a pool of acid.
      Now, the question is: ” which one will be the first ? “

      [i]Yowzaaa wrote: “What’s with all these brazilian monkeys spewing so much worthless anti-American rhetoric?[/i]

      Yowzaaa, the good part of being a Brazilian monkey is that there are lots of bananas in Brazil…So, when they are hungry, they have lots to eat…The ones they don’t eat, they put in the asses of morons like you.

      [i]ShinBet wrote: “I HOPE THEY SUFFERED HORRIBLY. I hope the passengers’ flesh was twisted in inconceivable agony and was painfully ripped into tiny bloody vein filled meat chunks from their still living bodies when the plane crashed into the ground and the fuselage dragged them over the rocks like a cheese grater going 500 miles per hour.”[/i]

      Shitbet, that will be nothing compared to what we are going to do to Lepore and Paladino…
      By the way, tell me, when will you take a plane again ?

    • Ford4x4

      DISGRACEFUL
      I am shocked, horrified and deeply saddened to see what some of you have recently posted here. Actually, words completely fail me with regard to a response.

      I sincerely hope that you at least have the good grace to feel ashamed of yourselves for your cruelty.

    • Justice

      You said it all, Eddie !
      [b]Eddie wrote: “Americans think that they are armed missionaries and that they have a “divine mission” to export their model of political government in the world… Well guess what gringos? you’ll be amazed to see that the world is a very diverse place and that different cultures demand different things. If you try to make someone accept something which he doesn’t want (ex: occupation of Irak, Afghanistan…) he’ll give you something you don’t want either ( ex: terrorist attacks…)” [/b]

      [img]http://img.hebus.com/2005/09/29/050929213855_88.gif[/img]

    • EDDIE

      to Yowzaa and shinbet shit 2
      I understand that the comment Yowzaaa is full of arrogance and reflects the general attitude of Americans. Let’s say that despite the fact that America is a superpower and has the capacity to rule the world (and is actually doing so), I think that European model is far ahead socially, politically and even culturally.
      What did America offer the world apart from imperialism, big corporations that exploit poor populations in the undeveloped world and of course their hamburgers (produts of very elaborate and healthy cuisine).
      I think that their foreign policy is based on disrespect of the other and its sole purpose is to crush the rest of the world under its feet in order to preserve american privileges.
      Understand that I am neither European nor American but that I see Europe as a more adequate partner than the USA.
      I am shocked of the attitude of people like this Yowzaa and shinbet white trash as they are the reason for antiamericanism in the world. Americans think that they are armed missionaries and that they have a “divine mission” to export their model of political government in the world… Well guess what gringos? you’ll be amazed to see that the world is a very diverse place and that different cultures demand different things. If you try to make someone accept something which he doesn’t want (ex: occupation of Irak, Afghanistan…) he’ll give you something you don’t want either ( ex: terrorist attacks…)
      It is a shame that America does not realise that. Until it does it wont bring upon itself sympathy from the rest of the world.

    • EDDIE

      Yowzaa…and shinbet shit……
      Here we stand or here we fall

      History wonˢ۪t care at all
      Make the bed light the light
      Lady Mercy wonˢ۪t be home tonight yeah

      You donˢ۪t waste no time at all
      Donˢ۪t hear the bell but you answer the call
      It comes to you as to us all
      Weˢ۪re just waiting
      For the hammer to fall

      Oh every night and every day
      A little piece of you is falling away
      But lift your face the Western Way
      Build your muscles as your body decays yeah

      Toe your line and play their game yeah
      Let the anesthetic cover it all
      Till one day they call your name
      You know itˢ۪s time for the hammer to fall

    • ShinBet

      Marcelo Baby this one’s for You!!!
      I HOPE THEY SUFFERED HORRIBLY
      I hope the passengers’ flesh was twisted in inconceivable agony and was painfully ripped into tiny bloody vein filled meat chunks from their still living bodies when the plane crashed into the ground and the fuselage dragged them over the rocks like a cheese grater going 500 miles per hour.

    • Polo

      Yowzaaa
      What’s with all these brazilian monkeys spewing so much worthless anti-American rhetoric?

      Can’t -and when will- Brazil just deliver an answer to the accident investigation? Anytime soon?

    • EDDIE

      Bush’s Paltry Excuse for Subverting Geneva Convention
      President Bush claims to be worried that our CIA interrogators are confused by the rules that govern them. This claim is hogwash.

      While addressing the post-Hamdan v. Rumsfeld battle going on in the Senate over the U.S.À¢€™s treaty obligation to adhere to the terms of Common Article 3 of the Geneva Convention, President Bush claimed at FridayÀ¢€™s press conference that all he is seeking to do in his proposed legislation is to define the ArticleÀ¢€™s À¢€œvagueÀ¢€Â provisions.

      He said, À¢€œthe standards are so vague that our professionals wonÀ¢€™t be able to carry forward the [interrogation] program, because they donÀ¢€™t want to be tried as war criminals. They donÀ¢€™t want to break the law.À¢€Â Providing a congressionally-approved, American definition of Common Article 3 would supposedly provide CIA interrogators of terror suspects with clear guidelines as to which interrogation techniques are legal and which are illegal. Sounds simple and straightforward — but is it?

      A prohibition contained in Common Article 3 (which is enforceable criminally through the 1996 War Crimes Act which Bush seeks to change) forbids À¢€œoutrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment.À¢€Â Clearly, many of the nauseating abuses committed by Americans at Abu Ghraib and elsewhere (stripping detainees naked, dousing them with cold water, bombarding them with loud music for hours, putting them in stress positions, depriving them of sleep and light) would constitute violations of Common Article 3. Those military members who have been prosecuted, however, were charged in military courts under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Some of the UCMJÀ¢€™s provisions are just as vague as those of Common Article 3 À¢€“ if not more so.

      For example, the UCMJÀ¢€™s Article 93 makes it a crime to engage in À¢€œcruelty, oppression or maltreatmentÀ¢€Â of a subordinate. Is À¢€œcruelty, oppression or maltreatmentÀ¢€Â less vague than À¢€œhumiliating and degrading treatmentÀ¢€Â? The Manual for Courts-Martial, the official guide used by all military lawyers to implement the UCMJ, does list specific acts which could constitute violations of Article 93 or other articles of the UCMJ. These sample charges are known as À¢€œspecifications.À¢€Â The Manual makes clear that a military accused can be charged with a specification which is not listed. If an accused claims that a new specification does not amount to a violation of an article (such as 93), his lawyer could make that argument to the court, and if necessary, to the appellate military courts. That is the way our system works, because it is impossible to describe in advance all the permutations of bad behavior that humans are capable of that are sufficiently evil to be deemed criminal.

      Other articles of the UCMJ that are even more vague than Article 93 are 133 and 134. Article 133 prohibits À¢€œconduct unbecoming an officer and gentleman.À¢€Â Article 134, long known as À¢€œthe devilÀ¢€™s articleÀ¢€Â because it has been used for several decades to punish behavior that was undefined in advance, makes criminal À¢€œall disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forcesÀ¢€Â and À¢€œall conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.À¢€Â The appellate courts have upheld these articles against challenges by defense lawyers that they were À¢€œunconstitutionally vague.À¢€Â

      During the PresidentÀ¢€™s press conference, it would have been reasonable to expect at least one White House press corps reporter to ask Bush why Common Article 3 was deemed by him to be too vague — while the UCMJ Article 134 was not. Not a single reporter posed the question.

      The Bush AdministrationÀ¢€™s real agenda likely has at least three goals: first, to allow CIA interrogators to continue to engage in À¢€œsoft torture,À¢€Â so long as it doesnÀ¢€™t À¢€œshock the conscienceÀ¢€Â; second, to provide immunity for all those interrogators, civilian and military, who committed outrages upon detaineesÀ¢€™ personal dignity and engaged in humiliating and degrading treatment in the past few years; and third, to give congressionally-granted immunity to senior Bush Administration officials for their having encouraged field operatives to inflict degrading treatment and outright torture in the past.

      Myriads of articles have been published about the notorious À¢€œTorture MemoÀ¢€Â of August 1, 2002, and others, which defined torture so narrowly as to À¢€œlegalizeÀ¢€Â what most people and nations would regard as torture. These law-twisting memos, bitterly contested at the time by the Judge Advocates General of our Armed Forces as violating our most noble traditions, told President Bush exactly what he wanted to hear À¢€“ that he and he alone, could decide what interrogation methods may be used in the À¢€œwar on terror.À¢€Â

      I AM STARTING TO SEE A PATTERN HERE!!!!!

    • jony

      To tim and his brother with 500 milion hours flying…and that was only last week!!!
      To tim and the old second world war pilot with 500 milion hours of flying…he he.
      Your excelence should know that a bird can actually bring a 747 down…don’t you?
      Embraer is a leading manufacturer using VL technology in their small and up to 170 passanger jets. Maybe that is the reason the plane was controlable after the impact. To the expert that said that planes go down everyday in the north of brazil he he he …why don’t you rethink what you said…just in case somebody ask you for specifics… you know what mean Pinochio???

    • Michael Davis

      the website for the report on incorrect pilot leading to structural failure is corrected to the following : http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=DCA02MA001&rpt=fi sorry for the typo you know us “Fake Pilots” can not read or write too well.

    • Michael Davis

      Hey Airlines Man , it is extremely gratiying to know that you are in the Airline industry albeit “ON THE GROUND” AND WITH YOUR ATTITUDE LETS ALL PRAY THAT IS WHERE YOUR CAREER STAYS ON THE GROUND. If anyone is intersested in reading detailed reports on how incorrect pilot input can overstress the airframe and lead to structural failure then here is the web site http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF. asp?id=DAC02MA001&rpt=fi and for the FAA AD regarding the Embraer Legacy here is the website: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/0/1BDDC176AC629452862571E70059100D?OpenDocument These are the website we “Fake Pilots” read for information on aircraft accidents.

    • Marcelo

      Sorry again
      I know this has NOTHING to do with nationalities… But as soon as the news were on the american page of Yahoo! if you saw the comments on the page, they were ALL extremely racist against Brazilians, and I’m not kidding… People (not only 1 but MANY) actually were heartless enough to say “So what if 155 prostitutes died, that’s about the best thing that ever happened to them. ” and comments MUCH worse then that. Its DIFICULT not to stereotype it when things like that are beeing said and when elso, alot of the Americans (again, not all) tend to show sings of superiority. But I agree with the comment above.

    • antiameba

      quote “Sorry but you’re a fake. I could never write that. I don’t want the Legacy pilots to rot in Brazilian jail for the rest of their lives. They would probably be sodomized and that would be too much fun for them. I only wished that Legacy would be the one in the forest now and the passagers of flight 1907 would be the ones to survive.
      And please, have some courage. Choose a name of your own or go playing with your Barbies dolls… “

      KKK, this was the most funny thing I ever read!

      quote O.k….so this is not an American vs Brazilian situation…this is a proper investigative procedure ( American ) vs.a possibly politically motivated prosecutorial hack job scenario ( Brazilian )…

      KKK

    • Justice

      There are fakes here
      [i]Let ’em rot written by Justice, 2006-10-09 01:49:43
      Let those two pilots rot in Brazillian jail for the rest of their lives. They deserve it.[/i]

      Sorry but you’re a fake. I could never write that. I don’t want the Legacy pilots to rot in Brazilian jail for the rest of their lives. They would probably be sodomized and that would be too much fun for them. I only wished that Legacy would be the one in the forest now and the passagers of flight 1907 would be the ones to survive.
      And please, have some courage. Choose a name of your own or go playing with your Barbies dolls… 😉

      [i]Vacant Stare wrote: “This is not an American vs. Brazilian situation, this is a proper investigative procedure vs. a possibly politically motivated prosecutorial hack job scenario. “[/i]

      O.k….so this is not an American vs Brazilian situation…this is a proper investigative procedure ( American ) vs.a possibly politically motivated prosecutorial hack job scenario ( Brazilian )… 😀 😉

      Boy, you are such an arrogant clown…You can’t say that Americans do a “proper investigative procedure ” when everyone knows by now what Americans did in secret prisons in Europe ou what they do in Guantanamo. Legality and morality are not words Americans know that well. If you can’t see anything beyond your disgusting ” patriotism “, avoid posting, poor ameba.

    • Airline Man

      Careful – fake pilots about
      I work in the Airline Industry – albeit on the ground.
      I think Tim and Michael Davis have never been in a cockpit in their lives.
      I have never read such rubbish from alleged pilots.

      For a better Technical discussion read:

      http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=246031

    • Vacant Stare

      speculation
      Is apparently all of the rage in this discussion. Seriously everyone, why don’t we wait and see what information is recovered from the black boxes and whether any of it would help in determining culpability. The only thing that can be asked from the Brazilian authorities is that they conduct the investigation in a way that is compatible with local and international laws that govern air disaster investigations. If there is bias involved, Americans have a full right to call the prosecutor’s BS, just as any other country would most definitely call out any American prosecutor in a similar situation.
      Oh, by the way, “Justice”, you sir are a fucking tool. If you can’t produce an objective analysis of a situation, especially as sensitive as this one, then maybe you should keep your nitwit nose out of this discussion. This is not an American vs. Brazilian situation, this is a proper investigative procedure vs. a possibly politically motivated prosecutorial hack job scenario. So, enough of the US/Them crap. If you can’t stick to the known facts, then you are too stupid to have a discussion about this topic, and thus need to shut the eff up.

    • Michael Davis

      First I hold an ATP certificate and I am currently type-rated on a 737-800 and a Gulfstream V and 550. I have over 10,000 flight hours in various aircraft dating back to my military service in the US Armed Forces with 3,700 hours in the 738 and 4,100 hours in the Gulfstream. I must agree totally with Tim, even though I could not go as far as boycotting Brazilian Airspace at the moment, tim does make very important points and I say 100% that the damage sustained to the Legacy (from the pictures I have seen and I know The owners of ExcelAire being that I am from NYC and Currently based out of KHPN Westchester County Airport.) that if indeed the Legacy hit the GOL 738 at FL370 presumably that each A/C was flying at mach 0.78 then BOTH A/C would have practically been torn apart at the point of impact and BOTH A/C WOULD HAVE ENDED UP IN THE AMAZON JUNGLE AS TWISTED MANGLED PIECES. Now before you guys gang up onme all I am stating and agreeing with tim is that line pilots in the US spend countless hours in CAE level D full motion simulators; simulating all kind of emergencies that the general public or Hollywood could never dream of. One of the emergencies is unusual attitude recoveries. We are traine and taught how to recover and during the recovery HOW NOT TOO OVERSTRESS THE AIRCRAFT AND TO MAINTAIN SITUATIONAL AWARENESS. I am not even remotely trying to suggest that the GOL crew was not properly trained because I was not on the flightdeck of either A/C I am like all the rest of us trying to make sense out of such a avoidable tragedy with such loss of life from the safe confines of my home in front of my PC, But I must say that the press coming out of Brazil is a little bit one sided and the Brazilian ATC MUST ACCEPT SOME RESPONSIBILITY. If the ATC was trying to raise the Legacy too no avail as it has benn stated then prudence would ….hell forget prudence procedure would demand that the ATC REDIRECT THE GOL 738 and any other A/C away from the last projected radar flight following of the Legacy just as UNITED STATES ATC ARTCC DID WITH PAYNE STEWARTS’ LEARJET THE LOST CONTACT WITH ATC AND LATER CRASHED IN THE MIDWEST. AS for the transponder issue first of all not even the Brazilian investigators have suggested that the Legacy pilots intentionally turned off the TCAS System which in turn would turn off the transponder. If we read the FAA ADs and NOTAMS for the Legacy the TCAS on the Legacy which is a composite of an ERJ-135 and a ERJ-145XR and both A/C are mentioned in the AD and the NOTAM as having a malfunction with the tranponder as related to an unknown stand-by of the TCAS II. So stating that the transponder was turned off is a sound bite for the Brazilian prosecutor to pre-try his so-called case in the court of popular opinion and not in a real court room bvut hey if he can convict the so called cowboy American pilots who willfully killed 155 of his countrymen then his star in poitics or private practice is virtually assured.We must take what he says with a grain of salt. As for the the pilots being detained which is what they are in the J.W Marriott I am quite sure that they are in the biggest and best suites that the Hotel has and they are hitting the Beach and out clubbing it and getting drunk anf are partying everynight without a worry in the world because all is good Hey I am in RIO in the JW Marriott the Beach is down the Block and the women are all throwing themselves and me HELL who wants to go home lets find another exotic place to crash a plane and hang out here while we wait to see if we are going to prison. Look lets just wait and see what the investigation bears and we can then be better informed to point fingers if that is what is called for. The only crime I see so far if you acan call it a crime is the 155 PASSENGERS THE 155 PEOPLE WHO GOT UP ONE September morning and boarded a plane a brand new plane I might add putting their trust and safety into the hands of many other so called professionals and I am not talking about just the flight crew and they were on their way to see loved ones or on business or just a vacation and died enroute at no fault of their own. Was it just an avoidable accident avoidable yes BUT JUST AN ACCIDENT OR WAS IT SOMETHING MORE SINISTER THAT IS WHAT THE BRAZILIAN AUTHORITIES ARE TRYING TO FIND OUT AND THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO CAN SHED LIGHT ON THIS IS THE TWO SURVIVING PILOTS AND THAT IS WHY THEY ARE STILL IN BRAZIL AND THEIR PASSPORTS ARE BRING HELD IT SEEMS TO ME THAT BRAZIL IS NOW FOLLOWING PROCEDURES I BELIEVE IT IS A LITTLE TOO LATE TO HELP THE 155 LOST SOULS IN THE AMAZON JUNGLE!!!!!!!!

    • Nrets Drawoh

      If this accident had happened within the US territory, i’ll any foreign person would not be released under the same circunstances.
      Why is that the americans think (or assume) they’d be excused?
      Equal right goes both ways….
      Watch out Brazil,,,,maybe you’ll be invade as well…..lol

    • Justice

      Let ’em rot
      Let those two pilots rot in Brazillian jail for the rest of their lives. They deserve it.

    • Justice

      Questions & answers- The Revenge
      [i]djfdjfdjf wrote: ” That circumstances have made me the appropriate object of wrath for the array of Brazilian animosity for past and present grievances, both real and imagined directed towards my country. ” [/i]

      Boy, you should write episodes of ” The Young and the Restless “…You can make
      irresponsibles folks turn into poor victims.
      That is an ART…A poor one…but still…

      [i]djfdjfdjf wrote: ” My biggest regret is that in this post 911 world the US is not setting a better example.” [/i]

      And even before sept, 11 th…
      Let’s say ” in this post Watergate, Vietnam, Gulf War, etc, etc, etc… “

      [i]hmmmmm wrote: ” Rapaz, with a rant like that you’re not helping with Brazilian stereotypes either. “[/i]

      And I would like to know if , after more than ten years in Brazil, the only thing you can write in Portuguese is: ” Rapaz “…

      [i]hmmmmm wrote: ” Why is everyone so quick to lynch these pilots? “[/i]

      Maybe because there are already many facts against them.

      [i]hmmmmm wrote: ” See what I am getting at?[/i]

      Not really…but never mind. Your explanations are far too boring and they fail to hide your patriotism…It is not because one is American that he is always right…

    • Justice

      more questions & answers
      [i]Stan wrote: ” Perhaps the US needs to quit buying “jungle-jets” from this 3rd world country. ” [/i]

      Yeaaahh…and think that the Legacy transponder was built by Honeywell… a 1st world shit…
      And perhaps Brazil should stop buying these stupid first world sitcoms as ” Friends “, ” Desperate housewives ” or ” Lost “…

      [i]hmmmmm wrote: ” It seems all right and fine for prosecutors to jump ahead of the line and start throwing around all sorts of accusations before knowing the whole story, why not Tim? [/i]

      Yep…If 3rd world investigators can do it, a 1st world dummy can do it , too.

      [i]hmmmmm wrote: ” As well, air travel in the northern region of Brazil is not for the faint of heart. Ricco (RISCO), Total and other ma and pa flight operations go down yearly, although donÀ¢€™t generate as much press given fewer folks are killed, and of course, American are not involved. ATC is notoriously poor, although there have been attempts to remedy that.[/i]

      Well, tell us which flights crashed in the northern region of Brazil…even if fewer folks were killed… You see, it is not because US press gives more highlight to Aaliyah, John Denver or John Kennedy Jr, that small planes don’t crash all around U.S..

      [i]hmmmmm wrote: ” IÀ¢€™ve lived in Brazil for over a decade, and learned the hard way that one of the traits most professionals here lack is competence. That is not a condemnation on the entire nation, but sadly a very large percentage ” [/i]

      In this case, what are still doing in Brazil ? Go back to the land of the free and the home of the brave…We have all seen the so-called competence in the crash of TWA 800…

      [i]hmmmmm wrote: ” No, but then again Brazil hasnÀ¢€™t had a series of À¢€œAla akbarÀ¢€Â wingnuts fly jets into their buildings either.[/i]

      Surely because Brazilians don’t try to dominate the Middle East as Americans do…

    • Carlos

      It’s so amazing how americans think they are correct in everything they do…and yeah…it’s so bad to be “arrested” and stay in a 5 star hotel in Rio de Janeiro facind the beach…and in my opinion and from what i see in the past decades…Brazil is a very safe place to fly, and also they don’t hijacked planes flying over there…

    • Justice

      Timmy, the expert 😀
      [i]Tim wrote: ” I as a former American Airlines pilot, agree with the union to boycott Brazilian airspace. “[/i]

      Well, I agree, too…At least, for a while, Brazilian skies will be free of irresponsible pilots.

      [i]Tim wrote: ” These pilots did EXACTLY as they were supposed to do under the circumstances. As an expert, I can find absolutely nothing that the Legacy crew did that was incorrect. “[/i]

      No, they didn’t. If they had done what they were supposed to do, there would have been no crash.
      [b] An expert ???[/b]

      La-di-da…

      [i]Tim wrote: ” It isnt even logical that the tiny amount of damage could bring down a 737…”[/i]

      But it did ! Logic doesn’t explain everything…For an ” expert ‘ , you should know that…

      [i]Tim wrote: ” it seems that the Gol crews training must not include unusual attitude recoveries. They overstressed and overreacted to this situation, although Im sure they were good pilots and good people “[/i]

      You know [b]all of them ?[/b] Timmy, you [b]are[/b] amazing…

      [i]Tim wrote: ” Last Friday, a similar Gol aircraft went off the end of a runway in Brazil “[/i]

      An entire different situation, due to weather conditions… And Tim…there were no victims, no injures…See the difference ?

      [i]Tim wrote: ” Since the Brazilians are unwilling to blame their own ATC for this, it will absolutely happen again, and that is tragic. ” [/i]

      If the Brazilian ATC is [b]sooo[/b] bad, how come there aren’t crashes like these every month in Brazil ? The only thing that is really tragic is your stupidity, Timmy…

    • Marcelo

      WOW
      Couldn’t have said it better myself Justice !!!!

      Kudos to you !!!

    • Justice

      Questions & Answers
      [i]realitycheck wrote: ” And The less a foreigner is in Brazil, the less he has also a chance to be attacked and robbered ! “[/i]

      Same thing in New York City, huh ?

      [i]realitycheck wrote: ” My heart TOO goes to the families of the 154 victims BUT ALSO TO THE TENS OF THOUSAND FAMILIES WHO HAD VICTIMS DURING THE LAST DECADE ONLY AND FOR WHICH THE BRAZILIAN JUSTICE DID NOTHING !!!! “[/i]

      Well, my heart ALSO goes to the families of the 2,800 soldiers killed in Irak for WHOM American justice did nothing too !!

      [i]James wrote: ” What ever happened to Innocent until proven guilty? ” [/i]

      Well, James, as far as I know, Lepore and Paladino are not in jail. They are at Copacabana Marriott Hotel with their wives, maybe looking at the beautiful view of the sea. They are not in Guantanamo waiting for their trial.

      [i] gringo dingo wrote: “And before you try and label me an arrogant Ammmerrriiican too, IÀ‚´m not. Or, at least IÀ¢€™m not Ammmerriican. Arrogant? That is a huge possibility. “[/i]

      You’re French, maybe ?

      [i] copa wrote: ” just pay the bribe and fly home “.[/i]

      Boy, I think you could say that to the Ben Laden family as they flew home after September, 11 th.

      [i] Gary wrote: ” Are there any grown ups to conduct the Brazilian investigation into this tragic accident? “[/i]

      Are there any grown ups in the FBI or in the CIA ? Because they knew that the hijackers were taking pilot lessons in U.S. and they did nothing…

    • Marcelo

      Funny
      You guys crack me up !
      First of all, everything discussed here is nothing but SPECULATIONS !!! Until anything else is released we should stay calm. Second, the pilots, as it has already been posted here, are in a EXTREMELY nice hotel in Copacabana Beach and are NOT beeing accused of anything or charged. If the pilots do boycott, do you guys have ANY idea of the money that would cost all the companies that operate the rout between the US and Brazil ?!?! I’m sure TAM would have no problem getting all the passengers that AA, UA, Delta, Continental and Northwest would loose because of this boycott… Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you guys (when I say you guys, I mean the ones who agree with the boycott) think that all these things would not happen if the accident had happened in the States. Our ATC is not PERFECT, but neither is any countries… This was the most serious accident in Brazilian history and also, before this one, the last one was in 1996. And to finish it off I’d like to show my sincere regret with a comment made above by Stan

      Captain
      written by Stan, 2006-10-08 19:31:31

      Perhaps the US needs to quit buying “jungle-jets” from this 3rd world country.”

      Then please ask AA, Jetblue, and all the other carriers AROUND THE WORLD to stop buying from Embraer, and maybe we should all “Stop buying from a stuck up- know – it – All “Americans (I’m sorry to sterotype it).

    • Ford4x4

      Sharkey’s Shamelessness
      I don’t know what Joe Sharkey’s personal agenda is, unless it’s to save his own skin and that of his ‘friend’, David Rimmer, who happens to be the Executive VP of ExcelAire. The initial version that the Times printed immediately after Joe Sharkey arrived back in the US was that he was in the cockpit (and I quote) “seconds” before the crash.

      It irks me to no ends that that version was pulled immediately and revamped so that it read that he had been in the cockpit “a minute” before the collision. Lo and behold, the third version of the same story that came out indicated that he was in the cockpit “several minutes” before the collision.

      It’s obvious he’s lying… by why? And to protect whom?

    • Justice

      There are already enough facts
      Here’s what Joe Sharkey wrote in the NY Times: ” Minutes before we were hit, I had wandered up to the cockpit to chat with the pilots, who said the plane was flying beautifully. I saw the readout that showed our altitude: 37,000 feet.
      I returned to my seat. Minutes later came the strike (it sheared off part of the planeÀ¢€™s tail, too, we later learned). “

      Sharkey wrote and Sharkey said: ” 37,000 feet “. [b]The[/b] problem is that Legacy should be at 38,000 feet. From SÀƒ£o JosÀƒ© dos Campos up to Brasilia, Legacy should be at 37,000 feet. Once over Brasilia, il should be at 36,000 feet.Then, finally, at the Teres point, it should be at 38,000 feet. This last change( from 36,000 up to 38,000 ) should have been made 20 minutes before the crash. In fact, Lapore and Paladino left SÀƒ£o JosÀƒ© dos Campos at 37,000 feet and so they stayed up to the crash. The ATC called Legacy SEVEN times but there was no answer.
      Sharkey wrote: ” The Brazilian air traffic control is horribleÀ¢€Â
      REALLY ???? So how come flights don’t crash every month in this area ? It took two pilots coming from the all-mighty USA ( the country where people are always right ) to crash into a Boeing 737 and kill 154 people ?

    • Ford4x4

      Hmmmm…. Excellent Point
      Hmmmmm… you have raised an EXCELLENT point, in my opinion, and to be honest, one that I quite overlooked. Shame on me… as the spouse of a captain, I KNOW better. You are absolutely correct in that no matter what the distractions are, the captain and first officer are, indeed, the ones who are ultimately responsible for the plane, as well as for their actions. In retrospect, the point I was trying to make is that the passengers’ actions (again, in my opinion) were quite possibly a contributory factor in the collision.

      Again, though, I cannot stress strongly enough that someone, somewhere and at some point before this investigation is closed REALLY needs to look at ExcelAire and their practices.

      I also believe that all of us, American, Brazilian, Swahili or whatever your nationality may be, really need to stay calm, focused and committed to finding out the facts.

    • hmmmmm

      @Ford 4×4
      Interesting, and yes I would hope that everything would be taken into account, although holding passengers accountable, or laying blame at their feet for burdening the crew is not an option. The jet and its passengers are the responsibility of the pilots. If, as you opined, there were distractions it would still be the crews fault for allowing those types of distractions.

      But the concern is why such a micro investigation? Everyone is looking to the crew of the legacy, while, at least at this stage of the discussion, ignoring other possibilities. As mentioned above, the black boxes from the Boeing have not yet been analyzed and the control tower operators on duty at the time will be formally questioned tomorrow. Why is everyone so quick to lynch these pilots?

      True accidents – the caveat being if it was an accident and not negligence – are usually the culmination of a series of events and or conditions. If, letÀ¢€™s say, the LegacyÀ¢€™s transponder did not operate properly or, (and this is just for demonstrative purposes here) the LegacyÀ¢€™s crew DID turn it off, why did the BoeingÀ¢€™s transponder not allow the other aircraft to register something was amiss? If communications were broken, or not adequate, why? Was it Language? Procedural conflicts? Training? These are the questions that need to be asked to prevent future problems. You cannot lynch a crew immediately without giving the investigation a more macro-scope. To do this, you are inviting future disasters. Chest pounding nationalists may think they struck a blow for the free world by indicting a couple of À¢€œyankeesÀ¢€Â, but that is of little solace to someone like me who flies far too frequently.

      Investigations into air crashes are not designed to assign blame, but to find out what happened and to make air travel safer. After investigations are concluded, then one can weigh the evidence. If that evidence points to a sole unique cause, then let criminal proceedings begin. PLEASE. If, at the end of the investigation it is proven that there were a series of events that culminated into a disaster, then the scope of blame widens, but more importantly some serious and important failures have been identified and need to be rectified.

      HereÀ‚´s MY worry. IF, and this is a big IF, the Legacy pilots turned off their transponder, and it is found that that is the SOLE reason behind the crash, what is to prevent future disasters in a region WELL KNOWN for clandestine air flights connected to drug smuggling? See what I am getting at?

    • Ford4x4

      Degenerating into sniping
      I’d still like to know why no one is looking to the passengers on the Legacy or the jet’s owner’s for culpability?

      By the passengers’ own, printed, admission, several of them were in the cockpit immediately preceding the collision. Is it possible that so many distractions could have caused the pilots to miss the ATC’s request to change frequencies, or to misunderstand the request? I think that the feeling of being on a brand new jet, with company executives and press, caused more than one person on that jet to toss protocol out the window. One of the first places I’d start to investigate is ExcelAire; taking a really hard look at whether or not the pilots were actually qualified to fly as captain and fo, as well as what their standard operations procedures are with regard to pressuring their pilots into flying outside of FAA regulations. How about interviewing some of ExcelAire’s current and former captains, first officers and flight attendants to see what their opinion is?

    • hmmmmm

      G. Ottaviano
      “Americans like you make America’s look so stupid.”

      Rapaz, with a rant like that you’re not helping with Brazilian stereotypes either.

    • Dennis J Farquharson

      [i]If I were the two pilots and there wives in Rio I cannot imagine being anything but in a state of anguish. I suspect they have moved from the hotel mentioned above for security reasons. Maybe a cheap posada would make some feel better.

      From what I read here I would have the impression:[/i]
      À¯‚§ That a significant part of the Brazilian population think that because of my nationality, I am incapable of feeling for the loss of life in this tragedy.
      À¯‚§ That my nationality seems to be an indicator of probable guilty.
      À¯‚§ That instead of being the target of premature “wild” allegations of criminal negligence by the authorities with my passport withheld, some think I am benefiting from an all expense paid Rio vacation.
      À¯‚§ That circumstances have made me the appropriate object of wrath for the array of Brazilian animosity for past and present grievances, both real and imagined directed towards my country.

      It seems like we are all sharing ignorance:
      People have alleged that if this incident occurred in the US a Brazilian pilot would not be permitted to return home until after the investigation is completed. Is that true? How would the EU or other part of the world handle the circumstances?

      If the pilots were to return to the US and later it was determined that a charge of criminal negligence was indicated, are there not agreements between the two countries permitting extradition for prosecution? If not why not?

      [i]Is this the way to manage a difficult and tragic situation in a country that wants to be recognized as modern and as a global player in commerce and international politics.

      My biggest regret is that in this post 911 world the US is not setting a better example. [/i]

    • G. Ottaviano

      @Tim
      In response to Tim’s post:

      If you agree to boycott the Brazilian Air Space, good for you. Stay at you ‘so perfect’ USA.
      I totally agree with ‘Visitor’ and ‘Jony’. Americans like you make America’s look so stupid.
      But, hey, apparently, you were there, on the cockpit, and knows everything that happened right? Sorry, Mr. Know it all.
      Just answer me that: As posted before, assume that a craft flown by Brazilian Pilots put an American Airliner down? Would you be happy to let them leave the US to Brazil, and probably never return to the US to pay for their ‘supposed’ negligence/crime? I DON’T THINK SO.
      But, I forgot AMERICANS ARE ABOVE ALL OTHER NATIONALITIES, aren’t you? My bad!
      I really hope I’ll never fly with you.
      Let the time go by. Nothing like time to tell the truth…. THen you come back and tell us your point of view, alright?
      So please, KEEP AWAY FROM BRAZIL. I’m sure no one wants such a s*umbag to be flying above their homes anyway.

      Cheers!!!
      A PROUD AMERICAN CITIZEN!!

    • hmmmmm

      À¢€œ.. Brazilian pilots had been flying a biz-jet over Texas and had a mid-air with a Southwest 737 killing all on board. Do you think they would have been allowed to leave for Rio?À¢€Â

      No, but then again Brazil hasnÀ¢€™t had a series of À¢€œAla akbarÀ¢€Â wingnuts fly jets into their buildings either. WhatÀ¢€™s your point? Argumentative fallacies such as this do little in discussions other than to highlight fools and their opinions.

    • hmmmmm

      I wouldnˢ۪t be too hard on Tim. He has raised some interesting points, although I do agree we need to see the final results of the investigation before throwing a rope over a branch.

      However, I donˢ۪t see why he canˢ۪t come up with his own scenario, given that prosecutors have done the same in the case without knowing the contents of the black boxes from the Boeing, and without investigators interviewing air traffic controllers. Formal interviews with the ATCs will be done tomorrow. 9 days after the accident!

      It seems all right and fine for prosecutors to jump ahead of the line and start throwing around all sorts of accusations before knowing the whole story, why not Tim? By the way, the form in which prosecutors are operating in Brazil, and the mode in which they have been addressing the press smacks of scapegoating.

      As well, air travel in the northern region of Brazil is not for the faint of heart. Ricco (RISCO), Total and other ma and pa flight operations go down yearly, although donˢ۪t generate as much press given fewer folks are killed, and of course, American are not involved. ATC is notoriously poor, although there have been attempts to remedy that.

      Gol has grown and quickly. Maybe too quickly. IÀ¢€™ve had a few white knuckle flights with them, and have often pondered the experience of a crew in such a new fleet. This is not an attempt to victimize the victims, but to thoroughly investigate a horrific crash as this one must keep all options open, for if anything, to prevent future disasters.

      I am also curious as to the contents and recordings to be found in those infamous black boxes. I am tickled that a Canadian firm will be pulling the intel from them. Not that the Canadians are better equipped to do so (although, I will admit that I think they probably are), but I think it is important to start to include nonpartisan observers into the investigation. IÀ¢€™ve lived in Brazil for over a decade, and learned the hard way that one of the traits most professionals here lack is competence. That is not a condemnation on the entire nation, but sadly a very large percentage. Any extra eyes involved will provide more partiality in the findings and a more thorough investigation and conclusion.

    • Stan

      Captain
      Perhaps the US needs to quit buying “jungle-jets” from this 3rd world country.

    • jony

      To goog old Tim above
      Dear Tim,
      I Just want you to know how glad I am not being in an airplane with you as a captain…boddy!
      Your stupidity is absolut and impecably perfect. You just solved the whole accident and reached your own final comclusion right here, right now!!! That is exactly what we all don’t want to occur Tim…until all the facts are collected and analysed by the process that you as a pilot should be very very familiarwith.

    • Visitor

      Stupid accidents do happen in the US
      On August 27th this year Comair flight 5191 from Lexington to Atlanta the crew took off from the wrong runway , causing the death of 50 people. Somone made a mistake too. So yes! It does happen here too!!!!
      If this recent accident in Brazil had happened here instead: brazilians pilots *bumping* into a Southwest 737, as suggested on another post, i can’t even imagine what would happen to these pilots. Can you think all sorts of things they would end up being accused of?
      But hey! That’s the American Society … filled with hypocrisy and intolerance, inflicting fear wherever they set foot. Imagine if pilots started avoiding American airspace! Is it really safe to fly over America?

    • Tim

      Boycott Brazilian Airspace
      I as a former American Airlines pilot, agree with the union to boycott Brazilian airspace. These pilots did EXACTLY as they were supposed to do under the circumstances. As an expert, I can find absolutely nothing that the Legacy crew did that was incorrect. If the flight crew finds themselves not in communication with air traffic control, the procedure is to STAY at your last altitude and change the transponder code to 7600. Unfortunately, this particular transponder may be rendered inoperative if it is changed inflight, without the crew knowing its status. It isnt even logical that the tiny amount of damage could bring down a 737, I have flown both of these aircraft, and it seems that the Gol crews training must not include unusual attitude recoveries. They overstressed and overreacted to this situation, although Im sure they were good pilots and good people. Last Friday, a similar Gol aircraft went off the end of a runway in Brazil and the US crew was in their hotel rooms, so they cant be blamed for that. It makes me seriously question Gol’s 737 training program after I heard that. Nothing excuses air traffic control from communicating properly with the next center controller or the 737. That is what we do in the US ALL THE TIME, so we do not have these unfortunate accidents happening here. It is disgraceful and outrageous that our citizens are being held there when they are totally blameless in this event. Since the Brazilians are unwilling to blame their own ATC for this, it will absolutely happen again, and that is tragic.

    • JD DAVENPORT

      CAUTION – REMAIN CLEAR
      Why is American Airlines union (APA?) involved in this issue…the pilot no longer works for AA. APA needs to keep its mouth shut.

      The two US Pilots made some very, very STUPID mistakes. In order to be safe, all US corporate jets should remain clear of Brazil until the pending investigation is complete.

    • Gary

      This article explains why pilots, of all nationalities, are upset with the Brazilian government.
      _________________________________________________
      Experts Fault Accusations Against Pilots in Brazil
      New York Times
      Published: October 8, 2006
      The Flight Safety Foundation, a nonprofit group in Alexandria, Va., issued an unusual statement this week asking Brazil to continue its À¢€œlongstanding tradition of thorough aviation accident investigations.À¢€Â
      À¢€œWe call on the Brazilian government to stay strong in the face of immense public pressure and continue to respect the integrity of the investigation and not rush to judge the various players in this accident,À¢€Â said William Voss, the foundationÀ¢€™s president and chief executive, who emphasized that the purpose of safety investigations was to find the cause of accidents so that problems could be avoided in the future.
      Adriano Alves, the prosecutor investigating the crash, on Monday obtained the permission of a judge to confiscate the American pilotsˢ۪ passports and said the crew might have turned off the transponder, which broadcasts a planeˢ۪s altitude and is also used in a system that warns of impending collisions.
      The corporate jet, an Embraer Legacy, was reportedly at 37,000 feet, and safety investigators said it should have been at 36,000.
      Planes cruising on long-distance flights often prefer to climb as they burn off fuel so they are always flying at the optimal altitude for their weight to maximize fuel efficiency. It is not yet clear at which altitude the pilots were authorized to fly.
      The problem with the accusations, according to John Cox, an aviation safety expert and a former safety official at the Air Line Pilots Association, is that pilots who believe they will face criminal charges may not be forthcoming in investigations.
      À¢€œIf you were the captain of the Legacy, and you had this prosecutor making wild accusations against you, would you talk to anybody?À¢€Â he said. In the United States, while a criminal investigation may follow a crash, it is generally not at such an early stage of the safety investigation.
      In a development on Saturday, ExcelAire Service Inc., the New York-based charter service that owned the Legacy, confirmed that the transponder on the jet was a Honeywell model that the Federal Aviation Administration had ordered recalled in recent months because it tended to stop broadcasting unexpectedly in certain circumstances. It was unclear whether the transponder on the Legacy had been checked yet.
      On Friday, lawyers representing the husband of a crash victim asked

    • Lucas Silva dos Santos

      “.. Brazilian pilots had been flying a biz-jet over Texas and had a mid-air with a Southwest 737 killing all on board. Do you think they would have been allowed to leave for Rio?”
      Great point, Steve. Had that been the case, of course the Brazilian pilots would not be allowed to return to Brazil due to extradition laws, etc. Plus, if the pilots were to return to the US before being found guilty of manslaughter, they would be protected by US laws and redtape which would prevent them from being returned and facing justice in Brazil.

      BTW, did anybody notice how these guys are being put up at no personal cost at the JW Marriott hotel in Copacabana? Boo-hoo-hoo. Those poor bastards must be suffering. That is why everybody here in Rio thinks it’s such a crock of shit that they want to go home and seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that154 innocent Brazilian citizens had their lives cut short so unfortunately.

      Lucas

    • Pete

      exageration and absurdities from the chairman of the APA
      Rediculous, here is a situation where clearly precautions have to be taken, and investigations have to be completed, and there are officials and politicians from the U.S. trying to make a diplomatic incidence out of it. I am sure the pilots aren’t criminals, but that doesn’t mean that are free of guilt. It seem highly possible they may have been negligent and therefore should be held for further investigation. In the U.S. this would be standard practice. I wonder if Denis Breslin is speaking for the U.S airlines that fly in and out of Brazil everyday who would have to replace there pilots with (???). Here is the email I sent to U.S. congressman Peter King (NY) and U.S. congressman Gary Ackerman (NY):

      Dear U.S. congressman Peter King , U.S congressman Gary Ackerman,

      I have been following the tragedy that has occurred between the GOL Airliner and the Legacy Jet with some interest. I am an American living in Brazil for 4 years. I can tell you that, although there are some distinct cultural differences between brazilians and americans, there are also more likenesses then differences.

      In this case, my heart goes out to the families of all those people who died so suddenly, and unnecessarily. My heart also goes out to these unfortunate american pilots who are being held right now while the investigation is ongoing. I think their involvement in this accident is very clear. What exactly was the reason is not.

      I can assure that the climate in brazil right now isn’t what one could describe as “feverish”, but I can assure you that the climate around this case is quite serious and grave. I am sure you can understand the necessity for the brazilian authorities to have a complete investigation before dispensing of the evidence and/or witnesses. In the U.S.A. we have come to expect this of our justice system.

      I ask you, politely and with all due respect, to lower your tone of diplomacy and diplomatic incidence, as this is purely a case of accident investigation where to foreigners were involved. It would be absurd to assume that Brazil is mistreating or taking some offensive towards the U.S. or pilots from the U.S. It is wise and prudent to participate in the investigation, as is happening at this moment, and wait for the results of the investigation from the U.S and Brazilian authorities on the ground here in Brazil. I am sure they are capable, and can perform there function much better if there aren’t political overtones coming from Washington D.C.. Use your political clout for something better serving the greater good of U.S. citizens, rather than finding conflict where there is none.

      Thank you, Pete Wagner

    • Gary

      As a pilot for American Airlines let me assure you, Denis Breslin is an idiot. Is he actually urging, as a union official, that the pilots for American Airlines not fly into Brazil?
      That being said, let me help the individual who À¢€œafter a fruitless online researchÀ¢€Â, couldn’t find articles to back up the comments made Mr. Sharkey and Mr. Breslin,
      ________________________________________________-
      “We know that the transponder was turned off,” said Jose Carlos Pereira, the head of Brazil’s airports authority, the Estado De Sao Paulo newspaper reported today.
      “A pilot only turns it off when he doesn’t want to be identified. The Legacy could have turned it off to try some air tricks far from the eyes of the air traffic controllers,” Pereira said. “But it also could have been a case of mechanical failure.”
      Mato Grosso’s acting federal police director, Geraldo Pereira, said the Federal Prosecutor’s Office had ordered an investigation into “the possible commission of a crime.””We will start investigating if the two pilots caused the accident and if they are considered guilty, they could be charged with involuntary manslaughter,” Pereira said.
      But Pereira said the Legacy’s transponder, which automatically transmits electronic signals that communicate a plane’s location, may not have been operating.
      “Preliminary investigations indicate that the pilots may have turned off the transponder, that they knew the risks they were running and nevertheless they took certain attitudes that endangered the lives of people,” he said.
      Judge Tiago Souza Nogueira de Abreu, who ordered the investigation, told the government news service Agencia Brasil that “the hypothesis of a failure by the crew is not discarded.”Officials have told local news media that air traffic controllers had ordered the jetliner to maintain an altitude of 37,000 feet while the Legacy was supposed to be at 36,000 feet.
      _______________________________________________________
      Brazilian officials have been completely irresponsible in their comments to the media. We are to believe that not only did the Americans fly at the wrong altitude; they deliberately turned off their transponder!!! Neither Breslin or Sharkey are official spokesmen for the U.S. government, they are private citizens. Are there any grown ups to conduct the Brazilian investigation into this tragic accident?

    • copa

      business as usual
      just pay the bribe and fly home

    • Steve

      What if..
      .. Brazilian pilots had been flying a biz-jet over Texas and had a mid-air with a Southwest 737 killing all on board. Do you think they would have been allowed to leave for Rio?

    • gringo dingo

      @pregador27

      What in realitychecks message would lead you to think he/she was an Ammmerrikan? His/her poor grammar?

      I would have called you an “ignorant bigot” if you were any other nationality, however since you referenced yourself as being an Ammeerriiikkan, I think “self-loathing twit” suites you better.

      BTW, IÀ¢€™m not defending realitycheckÀ‚´s out of context rant, just your snap-to-judgment bigotry and irrationality. And before you try and label me an arrogant Ammmerrriiican too, IÀ‚´m not. Or, at least IÀ¢€™m not Ammmerriican. Arrogant? That is a huge possibility.

    • gringo dingo

      It is easy to play the Devil’s advocate from the comfy confines of you home computer. A similar query can be taken in regards to the procedure of these investigations: why is it that the air traffic controllers are only being FORMALLY interviewed tomorrow, 9 days after the disaster?

      There may be rhyme and reason to everything À¢€“ you and I donÀ¢€™t know – so again, take a deep breathe and wait for the final report. And although IÀ¢€™m sure you WANT to know x, y and z about the accident, it is the families of victims that have the RIGHT to know the truth presented in a conclusive and objective form devoid of rumor and nationalistic chest pounding.

      If the pilots are found to have been derelict or negligent in their duties, then let Brazilian jurisprudence take its natural course. Who could argue with that? If the final conclusion of the investigation proves to be a series of errors combined with malfunctioning equipment not connected to any individual or individuals, then weˢ۪ll just have to begrudgingly admit and realize that accidents, as horrific and as can be, do happen.

      Looking for bogeymen and tin foil hat conspiracies at this stage is a ridiculously futile exercise.

    • pregador27

      So, Brazil isn’t perfect?
      “realitycheck” seems like an arrogant american. He’s the reason we have to go to other countries concerned if people automatically assume we are “ugly americans.” Brazil has its problems, but so do we here in the USA.

    • Ford4x4

      Owner of Legacy jet, among other things
      I would like to know why the NY Times journalist has changed his story so many times. Specifically, in the version he initially printed, he indicated that he (and others) were in the cockpick “seconds” before the impact. The second version stated “minutes”. Yet another version stated that he was sitting his seat working on the laptop computer. Which is it???

      I also have to wonder why the owner of the Legacy jet, Excel Aire, isn’t being looked at more closely. I’d like to have made public things such as how many hours their pilots are actually working and whether or not they are operating strictly within FAA guidelines. It bothers me that they saw fit to hire a public relations firm BEFORE they hired a lawyer to assist the pilots.

    • gringo dingo

      Everyone take a deep breathe
      I donˢ۪t understand why everyone is getting their knickers in a knot. The investigators have already asked for calm, and will not release ANY details of their findings until the conclusion of their work. The pilots are, given what investigators are saying, cooperating fully. Taking the Pilotˢ۪s passports is part of Brazilian protocol, although maybe the language used by the Judge in Mato Grosso could have been less reactionary and more procedural.

      Whatever you find in the media assailing blame one way or the other comes not from investigators, but from hack news hounds, whether Brazilian or American, and so should hold zero weight in terms of factual analysis. Disregard it.

      Yes, Brazil has social and judicial issues, however, given that the eyes of the world – or at least in North American and Brazil – are all over them on this case I would hope they would be dually diligent and objective in their work and assessments to follow. They should be regardless, but this is how the world works.

      Prematurely assailing blame based solely on irresponsible journalistic stories, or blind ignorant nationalism is simply foolish and is a slap in the face of the victimˢ۪s parents, friends and loved ones who are looking for true answers as to why this horrific and tragic accident took place.

    • James

      Brasilian Due Process?
      My heart goes out to the family and friends of the deceased. My only concern is Brasils skewed Due Process and brand of democracy. What ever happened to Innocent until proven guilty?

    • baba


      Nobody is standing above the brazilian law just because of being american!!!!!!!!!! They are treated like normal suspects. If they made a mistake theyÀ‚´ll pay for it, if not they will go home without any problems. @realitycheck: i wonÀ‚´t come up with your social problems, it has nothing to do with that article. But your arrogance is really inappropriate. Seems like you have no clue about brazil.

      And by the way i donÀ‚´t think the marriot copacabana is a jail.

    • Marcelo

      A brief note to “realitycheck”
      A brief note to “realitycheck”: not sure if you noticed, but no one in this forum is denying that Brazil has significant social issues. No one is even bringing up this topic, because it is completely irrelevant to the matter being discussed, which is how the media skews the info gathered, in such a way to protect the interests of few ones – as was correctly pointed out, Brazil authorities are just to follow protocols. Please try to stick with the theme, and don’t bring up other issues not relevant to this discussion.

    • thetruth

      a gift to Ssandra :
      the following is an extract of an article that appeared also in 0’Globo (not translated by me…but reported in another newspapers) :
      RIO DE JANEIRO: Miscommunication between air traffic controllers was probably to blame for Brazil’s deadliest-ever plane crash last week in which 155 people died, the Brazilian daily O Globo reported.

      The midair collision of a Boeing 737-800 and a smaller, twin-engine private plane occurred on Friday. Both machines flew into an air traffic control region in the state of Para jointly controlled from two separate towers, O Globo reported on Monday, citing a Brazilian air traffic control official speaking on condition of anonymity.

      Controllers in the two towers failed to discuss that the planes were entering the same airspace and instead assigned similar flight altitudes to their respective planes, leading to the collision, O Globo reported.”

      For further informations please check with O’Globo

    • realitycheck

      most of the forums members above forget, on purpose, the thousands and thousands innocents victims, many of them innocents children, that are killed yearly by
      – the death squads
      – the police forces
      – large landowners

      Therefore I have the most stupid basic question :
      WHERE IS/WAS THE BRAZILIAN JUSTICE ?
      IF THERE IS A REAL BRAZILIAN JUSTICE, HOW MANY MURDERERS IN THE ABOVE MENTIONNED EXAMPLES ENDED UP AND ARE STILL IN JAIL AND HOW MANY CRIMES ENDED UP WITHOUT ANYONE FOUND GUILTY ??????

      Of the 700 crimes made by large landowners in one state only during the last decade or so, not even 10 murderers ended up in jail !

      My heart TOO goes to the families of the 154 victims BUT ALSO TO THE TENS OF THOUSAND FAMILIES WHO HAD VICTIMS DURING THE LAST DECADE ONLY AND FOR WHICH THE BRAZILIAN JUSTICE DID NOTHING !!!!
      And contrary to the plane tragedy which was involuntary, whoever is responsbile, THE KILLINGS I AM REFERRING ABOVE WERE……..VOLUNTARY !!!

      Quite a difference…..in my humble view !

      The Brazilian justice is renowned to be The or One of the Worst, and taking their defense doesnt augur well for the families of tomorrow innocents victims !

    • Luiza Cruz

      Sickening
      What is really sickening is the arrogance of Mr. Breslin and others like him that believe that they can go to a democratic country like Brazil, do whatever they want and not have to answer to justice.
      Be a human citizen Mr. Breslin not only an american one! Do not waste yr time thinking about two american pilots that are far to well off, in one of the best (and more expensive) hotels in Rio de Janeiro, basking themselves in the sun and drinking caipirinha. Think instead about the 155 brazilians that lay dead in the middle of the Amazonian jungle, many bodies not yet rescued, many families in despair.

    • sandra

      After a fruitless online research, where I couldn’t find articles to back up the supposedly comments made above by Mr. Sharkey and Mr. Breslin, I felt the urge to express my opinion.

      I’ve been following this incident since it happened, reading to news from various countries such as Brazil, France and the US, and it’s sad that people make such irresponsible comments… The two American pilots had their passports apprehended as a precaution to not leave the country during the investigation and, not in a single moment, were charged with anything, or threatened to be thrown in jail (on the contrary, they are in a very nice hotel by the beach).

      Brazil is a sovereign country and, as such, has to have their investigation conducts respected (let’s no even get started on the American “outsourced” investigations!). No shortcuts have been made, they are simply following their protocol for this type of case. Also, it seems that Americans forget that are members from both the FAA and the NTSA in the commission investigating the accident!

      As regarding the possible flaw in the air traffic control, it’s important to note that the system used in the country – that had the installation finished this year – is exactly the same one used in the US – installed only in 2005.

      Please, have some concrete arguments to back up your stories…

      My thoughts are with the 154 victims and their families.

    • realitycheck

      ……
      And such a warning is right !

      And The less a foreigner is in Brazil, the less he has also a chance to be attacked and robbered !

      Simple statistics !

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