Brazil and Latin America Get Half of China’s US$ 50 Bi Overseas Investment

    Steel from Brazil

    Steel from BrazilFor Brazilian companies and those is Latin America China’s voracious appetite for the region’s commodities is turning into a great opportunity not only because of the huge Chinese market but also as a great financial source.

    With the world’s largest accumulation of international reserves, in the range of US$ 2.1 trillion, China is becoming the financial option for Latinamerican corporations in those areas considered strategic for Beijing long term development plans.

    In 2008, Latin America absorbed 50% of the US$ 50 billion China invested overseas.

    “The need to ensure supplies of copper, iron and nickel is forcing Chinese companies (government and private) to look for assets and supply agreements overseas,” said Erik Bethel CEO of the SinoLatin Capital investment fund.

    “The Chinese appeal to several different forms of financing their operations with Latin American corporations: purchase of stock, share-swaps; debt with Chinese commercial banks or with development banks and long term contracts”, said Bethel.

    China must ensure the long term supply of commodities, be it through direct investment or the purchase of assets related to the production and export of commodities.

    China also finances projects with long term supply contacts such as the one recently subscribed between Brazil’s Petrobras and Petro-China involving US$ 10 billion for the provision of oil, from newly developed wells, during a decade.

    Rafael Valdez another partner of SinoLatin Capital says that the Chinese system benefits those companies short of capital, liquidity or financing because of the international slowdown.

    The operation usually involves a supply contract which for the mining company of soy planter not only is working capital but a buyer for the output.

    Bethel said that mining companies such as Chinalco, Minmetals, Jiangxi Copper and Zijin among others are already involved in Latin America.

    Chinalco has invested US$ 900 million in a Peruvian copper mine which will be demanding an additional two billion USD. In oil Chinese companies have associations with counterparts in Colombia, Brazil and Argentina.

    Farming and fisheries are two other areas targeted by China, since the country’s is the world’s leading consumer of fish meal and in forestry the main consumer of wood for construction.

    China is not interested in a quick financial return but long term results and supplies, and with this objective also invests heavily in the region’s infrastructure such as ports and railways.

    Since China has been expanding for three decades at an annual rate of 10%, “soybeans demand has soared far beyond local production or reserves”, said Bethel. In 2008 China imported 40 million tons of soy, three times its 1980 capacity production when the country was a net exporter. However 75% of Chinese demand depends on imports from Mercosur members Brazil, Argentina and Paraguay.

    Chinese investment so far has concentrated in those countries with which China maintains a hefty trade exchange such as Chile, Brazil, Argentina and Peru, but it is now opening towards “smaller countries” such as Costa Rica, following the establishment of diplomatic and political relations.

    Mercopress

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    • Show Comments (34)

    • João da Silva

      Llyod Cata
      [quote]But…but…but I continue to say that, “Obama should take a page from Reagan’s playbook and send the Ayatollahs a Bible and a cake”. In fact, maybe he could get Oliver North to deliver, since he has done business with the Iranian clergy before.[/quote]

      Kudos. You know how to “delegate authority” to right people. “Oily” North is my choice too.;-):D;-)

    • Lloyd Cata

      João da Silva
      Did you see the Bush terrorism guy talking about Obama is “killing too many terrorists”? :sad:;-):sad:;-):sad:;-)

      This is how ‘war’, a serious issue for everyone, becomes political comedy/satire. In this atmosphere, is it no wonder that I am not hopeful of American republic.

      But…but…but I continue to say that, “Obama should take a page from Reagan’s playbook and send the Ayatollahs a Bible and a cake”. In fact, maybe he could get Oliver North to deliver, since he has done business with the Iranian clergy before. 8);-):D

    • João da Silva

      Llyod Cata
      [quote]I thought I made clear the killing those agents has turned the Agency to hunt down Al Queda like never before.[/quote]

      You made it loud and clear and I just wanted to confirm it.:D

      BTW, the “strategic blunders” are going to be repeated and don’t complain later that I didn’t warn you.8)

    • Lloyd Cata

      João
      [b]Strategic “blunder” on whose part? [/b]

      I thought I made clear the killing those agents has turned the Agency to hunt down Al Queda like never before. It was effectively 9/11 for the Agency and they will not be swayed by the “shadow” government in the US from using ‘all’ assets. It not about “prolonged war for prolonged profits” anymore. This is about ‘revenge’, it’s personal now, and you might see a change in attitude in the region about ‘exterminating’ these roaches.

    • João da Silva

      [quote]Killing those 7 CIA agents was ‘huge’ tactical success, but extreme strategic blunder.[/quote]

      Strategic “blunder” on whose part?

    • Lloyd Cata

      Capnamerca
      [b]Every presidential election in the U.S. going back at least to JFK, has been bought and paid for. The nominations to the supreme court are bought and paid for, and the decisions of the court are all paid for.[/b]

      …and the USSC now must guarantee that the next election is not ‘hijacked’ by the people. “Money is speech”, “Business is accorded the same rights as ‘We The People'”, “property is the ‘imminent domain'(1975) of the ‘taxing authority'”.
      It is too late for the ‘tea-baggers’ or anyone else who thinks they can turn this around peacefully. The only question is how many guns will be aimed at the true threat to freedom and liberty? Unfortunately, as usual, the unarmed innocents will be the majority to fall in the defense of liberty.
      Are we really that close to the psychology of the terrorists? I think not! What we are getting close to is the revelation of the truth….and it is simply as fanatical and fundamentalist as anything coming out of the Middle-East.

    • Capnamerca

      [quote]Look at all the tea-baggers in the US. Understand that Hitler was elected with less than 40% of the vote, and the US doesn’t do run-off elections, so the same ‘democratic’ rules apply. With the present Supreme Court, and more than 80% think US government is broken, do not be surprised by what may happen in 2012 ….[/quote]

      Trouble with the tea-baggers is, they have been taken over by this phsyco Palin. She’s too far out there for even the far right to grasp. I mean, give me a break! Her campaign slogan was “I can see Russia from my house.” LOL

      In the end, no one can make it to the White house without the financial backing of the bankers. Just look at who were the top 5 contributors to the McCain campaign, and the top 5 contributors to the Obama campaign. Same people. The same holds true to the house and senate. I truly believe while Obama was running for office, he had intentions of trying to right some wrongs, but by the time he was elected, he found that he was in over his head, and has no option other than to comply with the puppet masters.

      It’s very simple. The bankers tell their employees who to vote for. They solicit contributions from their employees, and the outcome is certain. This has been true for a long time. Every presidential election in the U.S. going back at least to JFK, has been bought and paid for. The nominations to the supreme court are bought and paid for, and the decisions of the court are all paid for. They know they have to let the regular guy win one once in a while to keep the sheep happily grazing, but these are generally of no real consequence.

    • Capnamerca

      [quote]Manipulation of just the U.S. Government? I would say “manipulation” of the voters of any democratically elected government.[/quote]

      You must not have finished reading the sentence.

      [quote]My sole purpose in life these days, other than my chosen profession at present, is dissemination of the truth, especially concerning the history of finance, corruption, and manipulation of the U.S. government (and other influential institutions) by the unelected masters of the world.[/quote]

    • Lloyd Cata

      War Update
      Friends,
      My latest on the war on the Islamic Front(CNN);

      [b][i]Killing those 7 CIA agents was ‘huge’ tactical success, but extreme strategic blunder. The terrorists may have played into the hands of those in the Agency who have been waiting to use ‘all’ the assets of intelligence to hunt them down and execute them.

      Bush/Cheney would have never authorized this level of engagement because they were controlling the battlefield from the Cheney bunker. It really doesn’t get much simpler than prolonged war equals prolonged profits. It has taken the lives of these agents to reverse the momentum of the war against Al Queda.

      What was ‘allowed’ to become a prolonged war, just as what was ‘allowed’ to happen to the US economy point to a systematic operation ‘designed’ to defraud the American people and give credibility to an enemy that should have been neutralized under Mr. Musharraf, but since
      these men gave their lives, the gloves are off and the Pakistanis and the Afghans are facing a US intelligence community ready, willing, and able to strike quickly, effectively, with minimum civilian casualties. And that works to the advantage of the US because everyone everywhere will understand that ‘hanging with these guys’ is becoming the equivalent of a death sentence.

      How’s that for incompetence bordering on the criminal, Mr. Cheney? Care to answer some really tough questions in front of a judge, and the American people? No, I didn’t think so … just like you ducked out of military service, you’ll certainly be taking the Fifth![/i][/b]

    • Lloyd Cata

      Don’t Let Semantics Get In The Way Of Progress
      [b]João da Silva[/b]
      [b]I am not sure if you know that Ricardo Amaral is not just a mere commentator in this forum, but also publishes articles.[/b]

      Which he continuously links to, for self-delusion or self-gratification. I can’t believe his views have wide acceptance, even among the elites. Somehow I don’t believe he ever served in the military, but they have had significant influence on his thinking. You know, kinda like the ‘chicken hawks’ here in the US; like Cheney, Rumsfeld, Limbaugh, Hannity, and other neocons. So much easier to send others to do the dirty work. “Been there, done that….”:sad:

      [b][i]Democracy and the human rights were invented by the Haves to always keep the have-nots behind them[/i][/b]

      [b]At first, I was shocked to read that statement. No longer.[/b]

      If you look closely at the Opus Dei link I referred to in the other thread(Slave-ocracy), you will see the shift of Western Imperialism toward the Greco-Roman meaning and practice, which of course allowed for all manner of inhumane perversions under state-sponsored terrorism. The only question is, [i]”will the world, in the 21st Century and beyond, accept the regression of mankind back into a subservient state of world domination under such oppressive ideology.”[/i]
      Feudalism is bankrupt so now they move back to the model which gave acceptance to slavery, exploitation, and aristocracy, which was then translated, perversely, as Democracy. Do they really think us blind? No…they simply understand that you can fool most of the people most of the time.
      Look at all the tea-baggers in the US. Understand that Hitler was elected with less than 40% of the vote, and the US doesn’t do run-off elections, so the same ‘democratic’ rules apply. With the present Supreme Court, and more than 80% think US government is broken, do not be surprised by what may happen in 2012 ….

    • João da Silva

      [quote]My sole purpose in life these days, other than my chosen profession at present, is dissemination of the truth, especially concerning the history of finance, corruption, and manipulation of the U.S. government (and other influential institutions) by the unelected masters of the world.[/quote]

      Manipulation of [i][b]just[/b][/i] the U.S. Government? I would say “manipulation” of the [b][i]voters[/i][/b] of any [b]democratically [/b]elected government. I am not sure if you know that Ricardo Amaral is not just a mere commentator in this forum, but also publishes articles. Under one of his controversial articles, a Chinese gentleman wrote the following:

      [b][i]Democracy and the human rights were invented by the Haves to always keep the have-nots behind them[/i][/b]

      At first, I was shocked to read that statement. No longer. The [i][b]once[/b][/i] famous WSJ was a credible newspaper to get info on financial matters. I wonder how many of its ex-readers would say that it still continues to be credible. I don’t have to spell out the reason for its having turned out to be another tabloid.;-)

      For a long time, I have been getting the feeling that the entire world is being manipulated by the media to the benefit of a few. They make yesterdays “terrorists” heroes of today and yesterday´s blue eyed boys into today´s “villains”. For this reason, I no longer believe in what the “Mainstream” media say anymore. Thanks to the Internet, some bright people are getting exposed to the “truth”. It is a powerful tool not only to entertain but also educate. So I think that your campaign is a noble one and wish you all the best. But, I personally think that it is easier to convince the mass with lies than the truth to get an elected job. Fortunately, you are not running for an elected job.:D

    • Capnamerca

      Very simple
      [quote]P.S: I am curious to know what the theme of the e-mail blitz campaign to be launched by our new friend “Capnmerica” [/quote]

      My sole purpose in life these days, other than my chosen profession at present, is dissemination of the truth, especially concerning the history of finance, corruption, and manipulation of the U.S. government (and other influential institutions) by the unelected masters of the world. Call them illuminati, bildebrgers, masons, international bankers, or whatever you will. But these people have manipulated through financial, military, secret services, and other means for far too long, and have an agenda to enslave everyone on this planet.

      If something isn’t done sooner than later, they will have accomplished their agenda within the next couple of decades, if it takes that long. Nothing is out of their reach, and they don’t play by any rules. Anyone who doesn’t believe these people exist, just hasn’t looked for the truth.

    • Lloyd Cata

      João da Silva
      [b]I wholeheartedly agree with you that you are extremely adamant as well as highly opinionated.
      [/b]

      Make no mistake, my friend, the ‘opinions’ are mine, the ‘choices’ are yours!:-)

      [b]P.S: I am curious to know what the theme of the e-mail blitz campaign to be launched by our new friend “Capnmerica” [/b]

      Not a clue, but if it contributes to truth and understanding he will have a ready accomplice.;-):D

      (Ooooooohhhh….another American conspiracy…..NOT!!!) :D;-):D;-):D;-)

    • João da Silva

      Llyod Cata
      [quote]So I am really adamant on this point that boycott, sanctions, etc, should be used to adjust Brazil’s thinking on forcing people from their homes and homeland “without fair compensation”, and possibly a share of profits for an ‘inheritance’.[/quote]

      I wholeheartedly agree with you that you are extremely adamant as well as highly opinionated.:D

      [quote]The sickness of greed which has so devastated the US economy must not be the defining agenda in Brazil’s prosperity.[/quote]

      This is what I have been saying precisely. You let the PRC walk all over you for almost 40 years, wiped out the jobs in your industries, got fat over financial speculations and heavily indebted to the Chinese in terms of [i][b]Trillions[/b][/i] of Dollars. As I said earlier, our rulers learned from yours (just google up and check who trained our present President of Central Bank).The same thing that happened in your country is taking place here slowly, but steadily.

      [quote]However much it would hurt me to do it, but I would support a universal boycott of any Brazilian products until this changes.[/quote]

      I understand why you would support such boycott and I am sure it is not out of spite for Brasil and Brasilian made products (I guess including the raw-material and food too). BUT….BUT…BUT…it will [i][b]not[/b][/i] happen due to the reason you yourself have given.GREED.

      BTW, a Presidential candidate in 2006 who shared my views on “China Trade” was soundly thrashed in the elections.:sad: It wasn’t your buddy Mr.Buarque, though.;-)

      P.S: I am curious to know what the theme of the e-mail blitz campaign to be launched by our new friend “Capnmerica”

    • Lloyd Cata

      João da Silva
      [b]If our government restricts the import of goods made in PRC and lowers the IPI & ICMF for the Brasiliand made products, it is fine with me. Besides these measures, we need to address the issues of a) Corruption b)Labor reforms c) Tax reforms. [/b]

      Yeah, like north-south disparities, I guess we disagree. Perhaps our disagreement involves the sanctity of the land and its present inhabitants. I understand the need to share the wealth equitably, but to start the process by disrespecting the rights of the present inhabitants is never justice, and to start with injustice just perpetuates the same behavior.
      So I am really adamant on this point that boycott, sanctions, etc, should be used to adjust Brazil’s thinking on forcing people from their homes and homeland “without fair compensation”, and possibly a share of profits for an ‘inheritance’.
      The sickness of greed which has so devastated the US economy must not be the defining agenda in Brazil’s prosperity. Have you learned nothing except to behave as the colonialists behaved? Europeans did not bring civilization to the Americas, as we learn more each day, so why is it their practices continue as the basis for economic expansion. Why is it still ‘them or us’ instead of ‘them AND us’?
      However much it would hurt me to do it, but I would support a universal boycott of any Brazilian products until this changes. The only thing standing in the way is GREED!

    • Capnamerca

      Not so fast . . .
      [quote]May be the good Captain is a partner in Black water (XE?) and thus is confident of his “Booming Business”. Worth investigating and I leave it into your capable hands to discover his further moves.[/quote]

      The only thing I am a partner in, is trying to educate the masses concerning what’s going on behind the curtain. I try to be careful, and only disseminate information of which I am reasonably certain. I believe I have a pretty good base for an email blitz campaign, which I am preparing to launch very soon.

      I am beholden to no one, except to those I care about. You might guess, this does not include any corporate board members.

      Also, I’d like to thank the rest of you guys who post regularly on this forum for enlightening me every day on Brazil politics and history. Brazil is a fascinating country, as is it’s citizens.
      .

    • João da Silva

      Llyod Cata
      [quote]If we have that much in common I’m beginning to get a little confused myself[/quote]

      May be the good Captain is a partner in Black water (XE?) and thus is confident of his “Booming Business”. Worth investigating and I leave it into your capable hands to discover his further moves.;-):D;-)

    • Lloyd Cata

      Capnamerca
      [b]LOL João, I’m already unemployed and loving it. If I ever have to go back to work, I don’t think it will be much of a problem as my industry is booming worldwide, and I can go about anywhere [/b]

      If we have that much in common I’m beginning to get a little confused myself :o:D Good on you, my friend. Surely you understand the value of freedom and the necessity to spread the truth, instead of what’s constantly propagated by MSM.

    • João da Silva

      Llyod Cata
      [quote]This is where Brazil must be shamed before the world. Organized “boycott” of Brazilian goods could affect this, even though it would initially hurt the workers, but remember that it was people boycott of anyone doing business in South Africa. How amazing that international ‘product’ boycott brought down the regime that the ‘so-called ‘sanctions’ could not do. Neither the right or the left in Brazil want this, or maybe don’t believe it could happen, but the ‘Brazil brand’ could be damaged.[/quote]

      Here I disagree from you, my learned friend. If the Americans had boycotted the Chinese goods from about 35 years ago, your balls wouldn’t be in the hands of PRC. Now you want the entire world to boycott the Brasilian goods. If our government restricts the import of goods made in PRC and lowers the IPI & ICMF for the Brasiliand made products, it is fine with me. Besides these measures, we need to address the issues of a) Corruption b)Labor reforms c) Tax reforms.

      If your favorite candidate Ms.Roussef fails to address the issue of “China Trade”, we will be know-towing before Mr.Jingtao, sooner than you think just like you Americans are doing.:sad:

    • Lloyd Cata

      Capnamerca
      Quote from Opus Dei(Romana)
      http://en.romana.org/art/45_8.0_1
      [b]
      The person, in contrast, dedicates himself to contemplation and to virtue, according to the activity the Greeks called schole and the Romans otium, in contrast to the a-schole and the nec-otium, which are the terms for work. We find here a vision of aristocratic humanism. Only a person who fully possesses human nature is capable of the “good life,” of developing theoretical reason and the ethical praxis of the polis. And precisely for this reason he does not need to work.[/b]

      …and so this is the ‘new theology’ which embraces the culture of the Greeks and Romans. Understand how this contrasts with, “the work of freedom is never done”. Or how I was taught as a child that, “idle hands do the devils work”.

      Keep vigilant, my friends, to work for freedom and bring the truth to mankind.

    • João da Silva

      Capnamerca
      [quote]LOL João, I’m already unemployed and loving it. If I ever have to go back to work, I don’t think it will be much of a problem as my industry is booming worldwide, and I can go about anywhere I like considering I have no personal obligations.[/quote]

      Good for ya, Cap´n. When one becomes older, he becomes bolder too.:D

      [quote] If you disagree with my statements about the intentions of the Chinese, just look at what they have done to their own environment. Not to mention the fact that it was the Chinese, along with the Americans who tanked the Copenhagen deal. They have no intention of trying to mitigate damage to the environment, and see an opportunity to rape the Brazilian landscape faster than they did their own. Wait and see.
      [/quote]

      No, I don’t disagree at all with your statements about the Chinese “investments”. Unfortunately, we are following the lead of the Americans. You may recall that it all started in the era of Nixon/Kissinger. We managed to keep them at bay until the early 90´s, but no longer. Many veteran bloggers in this magazine know my views on the Chinese “investments” in Brasil. BTW, it has nothing to do with them as a race.

    • Lloyd Cata

      Capnamerca
      [b]– It’s all on paper. And the fortune the Chinese hold on U.S. paper is actually worth what? The paper it’s written on. Nothing more.[/b]

      Well, much of that worthless paper is being used to buy significant real assets around the world. I wouldn’t want to be the last man holding that paper. :o:sad::sad:

      [b]– I hope that with the enlightenment of some of the populace as to who is running things, and how, will get through to enough of the Americans that they will stand up to the slavers, and throw them out of the country.
      [/b]
      Wish I could be optimistic on that front. Might have been a possibility until the Vatican sent all the ‘liberation theologists’ back to their cloisters. Do you also see that the US would have ‘health care’ reform if the Vatican would support it, but they keep silent before their moneyed paymasters. Funny how they interfere where it is in their interests but remain silent in the peoples interest.

      [b]– As far as China investing heavily in Brazil, if a significant share of that money would go into improving the lives of a majority of Brazilians, I would hoot and holler for glee. Looking at history, including recent history, I’m not doing any of that hollering.[/b]

      The Chinese purchases only concern me as far as displacement of people with no ‘fair’ compensation. This is where Brazil must be shamed before the world. Organized “boycott” of Brazilian goods could affect this, even though it would initially hurt the workers, but remember that it was people boycott of anyone doing business in South Africa. How amazing that international ‘product’ boycott brought down the regime that the ‘so-called ‘sanctions’ could not do. Neither the right or the left in Brazil want this, or maybe don’t believe it could happen, but the ‘Brazil brand’ could be damaged.

    • Aion kinah

      metin2 yang
      by sandyheiwowowowowo

    • Capnamerca

      Lloyd cata
      I agree, you and I do seem to share viewpoints on many things. I do not however believe the U.S. has designs of militarily controlling SA. I think I read somewhere that you are a Viet Nam vet, and I also spent some of my youth in that “conflict”.

      What I remember most about the 60s and 70s, was the Soviet’s attempt at controlling significant regions of the world outside of their borders. It didn’t work out too well for them, and the results will be the same for the U.S. The other part of that equation is of course being labeled as the world’s aggressor. That is what has disappointed me much about my country in recent years.

      I believe these things are controlled far above the White House and the Congress. I have my own views, formulated after many days, weeks, and months of research, and I believe I understand much of the internal workings and the makeup of the international “shadow government”.

      Most of the political grandstanding, nationalism, and partisan bickering of today’s news stories is but a well thought out, staged soap opera to fool the layman into thinking someone is representing him against the bad guys. The two political parties of the U.S., and the supreme court of the U.S. have been bought lock, stock, and barrel by the international banking syndicates. Whenever someone mentions the “American Banks”, I have to laugh. These corporations have never been controlled by Americans, just as the Federal Reserve has never been controlled by the U.S. The entire U.S. economy has been a well disguised shell game, since the inception of the Fed.

      The implication of that, of course, is that the entire financial system of the world, being based on the U.S. dollar since the Bretton Woods conference, has been nothing but a monopoly game. It’s all on paper. And the fortune the Chinese hold on U.S. paper is actually worth what? The paper it’s written on. Nothing more.

      I was heartened though, when the U.S. citizens did prevail against the multi-national oil companies in the fight to preserve ANWR. The lies and outright deception practiced by the oil companies was, at least for now, defeated by the voices of the people. I hope that with the enlightenment of some of the populace as to who is running things, and how, will get through to enough of the Americans that they will stand up to the slavers, and throw them out of the country.

      Brazil, so far, has managed to stay out of their grip, but they are going the wrong way if they want to keep their country independent. I see Lula has managed to place one of the international bankers on Roussef’s staff, and that, to me, is not a good thing for Brazil. We’ll see how that works out, but I have seen this work before, and I’d say it’s not a good thing.

      As far as China investing heavily in Brazil, if a significant share of that money would go into improving the lives of a majority of Brazilians, I would hoot and holler for glee. Looking at history, including recent history, I’m not doing any of that hollering.

    • Capnamerca

      For anyone who cares . . .
      The only thing of any real value in this world is gold. If you care to know who holds all of the real value, it’s all laid out right here. ALl of the bonds, stocks, derivatives, insurance, and other types of debt can easily be washed away as it has been many times over history.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_reserve

    • Capnamerca

      [quote]The guys screamed and yelled against Cardoso´s selling the Brasilian companies are either dead,jobless or underemployed Capt´n. So you better learn some lessons from the history and stop complaining about the Chinese “investments”, unless you want to end up like them[/quote]

      LOL João, I’m already unemployed and loving it. If I ever have to go back to work, I don’t think it will be much of a problem as my industry is booming worldwide, and I can go about anywhere I like considering I have no personal obligations.

      But, as far as the people crying about Cardoso selling Brazilian assets for peanuts. I got all of that here on this forum. I guess that’s the people you’re talking about. If you disagree with my statements about the intentions of the Chinese, just look at what they have done to their own environment. Not to mention the fact that it was the Chinese, along with the Americans who tanked the Copenhagen deal. They have no intention of trying to mitigate damage to the environment, and see an opportunity to rape the Brazilian landscape faster than they did their own. Wait and see.

    • João da Silva

      Llyod Cata
      [quote]Did you see that the growth and stability in Brazilian economy came from ‘street money’ versus capital industrial expansion? Maybe those poor fellows have something to contribute after all, eh?[/quote]

      It is not only the “poor fellows” who do not save BUT…BUT…pay 2-3.5 % a month to buy Chinese made junk in 10 monthly installments, but also the “middle class” folks who invest in “Savings Bank a/c”, that doesn’t even give 0.5% interest per month.

      BUT..BUT…, still Banco do Brasil is a good bank to deal with, because of the competence of the employees. I wouldn’t say the same about the private banks.Mr.Lula may not agree with me,but that is the real “Truth” you like to talk about.

      Cheers

    • Lloyd Cata

      ….And To The Theoristas
      That does not mean the US is going to ‘invade’ or ‘occupy’ Brazil! If you read me enough then you know that my signature statement is, “there is profit in chaos”.

      All the crowing about the atrocities in Congo, perhaps they will notice who is going in to profit after the chaos. 4-5 million dead and now room for exploiting the country and establishing a central command for AFRICOM. It was no coincidence that Aristide is flown across the ocean for exile. First to CAR(Central African Republic) and then to South Africa. How come ‘friends’ of US are flown to Paris and Riyahd?

      BTW, I don’t think anyone will be hearing from ‘BabyDoc’ Duvalier, ever! The unholy smiling Swiss bankers say there is maybe $7M left in the accounts…hehehehe…after getting all their hefty commissions over the years. BabyDoc will never be allowed to testify who ‘authorized’ him and his father to rob Haiti blind. Kinda like the same people who supported the generals around Latin America at the same time. Perhaps if Brazil started investigating ‘accounts’ they would find lots of ‘unearned’ money. Expect Dilma to jump on this the minute the ‘conservatives’ get out of line…

    • Lloyd Cata

      João da Silva
      [b]I thought you went back to hibernate![/b]

      Not quite, my friend…too many things going on to sleep 😉
      However, I did have some responses for our friend Ricardo Amaral. As you see we actually agree on many things, such as the need for the Empire to respond militarily to a situation they cannot control economically.

      [b]I am surprised that by now the 2 Federal banks have not been privatized yet. May be when Dilma gets elected
      [/b]

      Haven’t you seen Lula gloating over how Banco do Brazil rescued the economy when all the private banks were crying? They bought another capital bank and now everything is peachy with the economy. Laughing at the US banks.

      Did you see that the growth and stability in Brazilian economy came from ‘street money’ versus capital industrial expansion? Maybe those poor fellows have something to contribute after all, eh? Of course, all this ‘underground’ money can destabilize the economy and affect the value of the Real if too many US $100 bills are spreading around the street. At some point there will have to be serious ‘adjustment’ to control these ‘destabilizing’ funds from all over the planet. Everyone spending dollars in Brazil is not necessarily a good thing…

    • João da Silva

      Llyod Cata
      I thought you went back to hibernate!

      [quote]If the Vale sale is any indication of how things will go, then the poor will again be robbed of their inheritance. Even though it is a successful company now, this is not really surprising when you start off getting enormous assets for peanuts.[/quote]

      Well said and remembered. The same goes for Telephone Companies. I am surprised that by now the 2 Federal banks have not been privatized yet. May be when Dilma gets elected?;-)

    • Lloyd Cata

      What They Cannot Buy, They Will Take…Your Choice
      [b]Capnamerica,
      Take a good look at what’s going on in China, and why they now want to buy up Brazil real estate. Good for the pockets of those who are selling, but bad for the every day citizen of Brazil. How much of this bounty will trickle down to the average citizen? How much of this investment will be used to lighten the tax burden of average Brazilians? [/b]

      Seems we share some of the same opinion on how this plays out in the Brazil of secondary world status. How is the inheritance of the Brazilian people sold as if it is ‘private’ property? Is there no defined ‘right’ of the people for these sales to be challenged? Sadly, the answer is NO! It is the same in the US where some Canadians bought, through still uncertain manipulation gold mines worth billions for a couple million dollars, leaving a waste pond for the taxpayers to clean up. This is the agenda of ‘extreme’ capitalism called ‘privatization’. I.e., the government and the people have no “inherent right” to own anything of value that can be more productive in ‘private hands’. In fact, whether productive or unproductive, ‘ownership’ of real property can never be invested in government because that is socialism which is always unproductive and non-competitive. What the hell is this about ‘the inheritance of the people’? What people? By the time ‘they’ set up for their excavations and exports, there should not be any people on ‘their’ property to deal with. The people should be no problem as long as the government keeps them out of the way!
      Where does the money go? Into the general government treasury? Into the pockets of the oligarchy? Divided among the elites? Payoffs to judges?
      Sorry people, here are more carnival trinkets, so you can continue to put on good show and smile for the tourists!

      Unfortunately, the Empire cannot match the Chinese investment because the Chinese are willing to risk all those phony dollars and outbid the Americans. Brazil property is much better investment than US dollars and Chinese need long-term commodities consumption. In an atmosphere where the Empire cannot compete financially(see how both put $10Bil+ in Petrogas), the only alternative is to slow or destabilize the commodities flow to China, and others, when the West needs those commodities for the successful re-inflation of their economies. So the military option cannot be ‘off the table’.
      Who knows how it will begin? Perhaps a US plane is shot down over “Colombia” and ‘evidence’ will show Chavez hand. Perhaps US ‘contractors’ are captured in Venezuela, being ‘pure and innocent’ as they are known to be while ‘strolling’ in the middle of a war zone.
      Typical East-West confrontation only with China replacing USSR, but this time the Chinese have the cash and the US has the guns.

      If the Vale sale is any indication of how things will go, then the poor will again be robbed of their inheritance. Even though it is a successful company now, this is not really surprising when you start off getting enormous assets for peanuts.

    • Leo Boneville

      And so…
      Capnamerca…

      I agree 100% with your assessments… If the Brazilian Governement wants to help Brazil by bringing in foreign investment, then its Brazilians they must have at heart.

      Infrastructure projects must be started and completed, taxes for the poor and middle class must go down, programs to assist inspiring entrepreneurs get an opportunity to develop and bring about new ideas that would benefit average citizens, in all they must follow thru with their promises that Brazilians will benefit from these investments not their pockets.

      Leo Bonneville

    • João da Silva

      Capnamerca
      [quote]I have read much about how Cardoso sold Brazilian assets for pennies on the dollar. Will the general population of Brazil see much benefit from private land owners and industries doing the same thing on this deal?[/quote]

      The guys screamed and yelled against Cardoso´s selling the Brasilian companies are either dead,jobless or underemployed Capt´n. So you better learn some lessons from the history and stop complaining about the Chinese “investments”, unless you want to end up like them.;-):D

    • Capnamerca

      OK, let’s see . . .
      how the Brazilians will respond to the news that China has now openly announced their intentions to purchase huge tracts of land in Brazil and rape the environment in Brazil in the same manner it has been doing back home.

      China was already the largest foreign investor in Amazonas, and this article points out the intention to harvest timber and ore from Brazil.

      Take a good look at what’s going on in China, and why they now want to buy up Brazil real estate. Good for the pockets of those who are selling, but bad for the every day citizen of Brazil. How much of this bounty will trickle down to the average citizen? How much of this investment will be used to lighten the tax burden of average Brazilians?

      The article puts nothing but a positive spin on the dollars coming into Brazil, but the truth is, nothing happens without consequences, and the Chinese haven’t proven to be environmentally responsible. Not even slightly.

      All I hear in Brazil is how the Americans have taken over the Amazon, when in fact, Chinese investment in Amazonas is far above U.S. investment. In my estimation, neither has Brazil’s best long term interests at heart. I have read much about how Cardoso sold Brazilian assets for pennies on the dollar. Will the general population of Brazil see much benefit from private land owners and industries doing the same thing on this deal?

      I already know the answer, and so do you. China is buying Brazil for one reason. Land is cheap, and so are wages.

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