Musings on an Interview with Sean, the American Boy Abducted to Brazil

    David and Sean Goldman

    David and Sean Goldman Everyone knows that "Sean" doesn't want to leave Brazil and we also know that the maternal family never asked him to leave, of course. And what exactly is the value of an interview made by psychologist Terezinha Feres-Carneiro hand-picked by the maternal family, who also makes clear that she wants Sean to stay in Brazil? Isn't it proof that there is a corporatism committed to disrespect the law?

    This interview only made it harder to make the transition to a different home, different city, and different country. If they're not the ones who will decide whether Sean stays or goes, to interview him so he can say what he wants will frustrate him even more. After all, he cannot make this decision. It's clear in this conversation the manipulation and parental alienation throughout the years.

    They scheduled really cool outings on the days he was supposed to meet his father? Oh, what a pity! Sean won't be able to go to Beach Park, since he has to stay home to see his father, oops, to see David. Or is that because he can't leave the state of Rio de Janeiro?

    He won't be able to go to Búzios, because he has to wait for the insisting guy who's going over there to see him.

    The father did not show up to meet him. Did they tell the boy the meeting had been canceled? And was there really an appointment every time they told the boy about one? Should a family that has frequently made use of illegal tactics be trusted?

    Here are the portions where the psychologist showed her bias for him to stay in Brazil. Was this interview conducted in an adequate manner?

    Terezinha Feres-Carneiro – Which friend do you like the most at school?
    Sean Goldman – Oh, there are so many…
    TC – So many! Wow! There are many friends you like…

    Reading between the lines: Don't take Sean from here, don't take him from all the millions of friends he has. Only his mother can do that!

    TC – And I wanted to tell you this, that this is a decision for adults to make… but it's also important, Sean, that you know that you're not going to decide this, ok?…
    TC – …I'm going to root for your desire to stay in Brazil…
    TC – …to come true, isn't it? Because as far as I understand…
    TC – …you want very much to stay in Brazil. But like I said, it's not your decision. This is something for adults to decide and we'll see if the adults, right, we'll see…
    TC – …they will listen to you, they will see what's best for you, right?
    TC – No, I understand that you don't like it, I just wanted, right, like I was saying that you don't have to be concerned because your saying has a lot of value… would you like to make the final decision? To have the responsibility to make the final decision?

    Reading between the lines: It's not Sean who decides, but maybe he'd like to decide, but he can't decide, if he could decide, however, what would he decide? Too bad he didn't cry…
    TC – Aham. You can't recall anything from there? From the time you lived there until you were four, wasn't it? Can't you remember anything?

    Reading between the lines: what does she remember of her life until she was four? I only remember what I have see on photographs and videos and that will certainly help Sean recall everything.

    TC – Humm, you think he passes himself as a sufferer? How is that?
    TC – You think he's pretending, you don't believe him much, right?

    Reading between the lines: it's clear that the boy completely lost the notion of reality. He thinks his maternal relatives are telling the truth, this psychologist is impartial, the father doesn't love him and Santa is coming on Christmas.

    TC – He did not show up?
    SG – He did not show up
    TC – After he made plans with you?
    TC – That's really unfortunate, isn't it? It's the third time he makes plans with you and doesn't come. Then it's hard to trust him, right?
    TC – It's hard to trust

    Reading between the lines: that was the icing on the cake! It's way out of line. The quote "it's really hard to trust" came out of the psychologist's mouth! Does anyone have any doubts regarding manipulation and TC?

    TC – I see, it makes you really upset and I can understand why you're upset

    Reading between the lines: he's upset, forgetful, concerned, disrespected. Why didn't she make him more depressed? Ah, it was because time's up!

    TC – that the adults hear this. That whoever is making this decision knows this
    SG – that all the judges, that all the people know
    TC – that all the people, the judges who will work on this case know that it's your desire to stay in Brazil
    TC – I understand Sean, I understand. We'll see, we'll root for the people, for the adults who are making this decision, right? So they can understand what's going on inside of your head

    Reading between the lines: it's the judge's fault if he has to live in the US. Here, we found someone to blame! Will the judge be prosecuted??

    TC – That's great. So do the 3 of you go out alone or does someone come along?
    SG – The nanny comes along. To take care of Chiara since she's still too little and wears diapers.

    Reading between the lines: and the fear of conveying that Sean is only with a nanny? Will the nanny lose her job when Chiara gets potty-trained??

    TC – Do you think it's important for you to learn English for when you go to the USA to be able to speak English…
    SG – No…
    TC – You didn't think it was so important. You can study that later in life, right?

    Reading between the lines: why does he need to speak his father's language? The less he knows, the harder it is to bond with him.

    TC – He disrespected you, you think?
    SG – Yeah
    TC – This is disrespectful
    TC – … now, going back to the disrespect, right Sean, when we feel disrespected or when we're upset about something, someone, as your Dad, David, a friend…
    TC – …I think it's important that you are able to tell David that you feel like this, right? Not only for David, but for your friend, if your friend disrespects you, you can say

    Yes, psychologist, smear the image of the father. Why didn't she take the opportunity to clarify what really happened? Since when to talk about the "evil deeds" of a father is good for a child? Will this be good for the boy to have embedded in his head how DISRESPECTED he is by his father?

    The psychologist has not seen "Life is Beautiful". She did not see what that father from the movie did in the concentration camps to spare his son of suffering. And in that moment, her role was to invalidate the father all the time.

    This interview made it clear how much the father disrespects him and how much the mother respected him when she took him from the father. I think they achieved the goal of completely reversing what happened. I think the Brazilian laws are completely convinced of that too. After all, so much time has passed… what's really happened, again?

    Roberta Palermo
    Family Therapist
    www.robertapalermo.com.br

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    • Show Comments (20)

    • Robert Gartner

      How can Groups reject the existence of PAS?
      Groups in America like the one that took my daughter from me, Justice for Children, others like The Leadership Foundation, Courageous Kids, Protect, Stop Family Violence, and even N.O.W. have their heads in the sand when they reject the existence and credibility of PAS. Perhaps one of the reasons may be that these professional types, as the one who conducted the interview on Sean Goldman prostitute themselves and lie, and they themselves know they can and will act like whores as the need (in thier mind) arises and thus skeletons too! Little matter then they scream that PAS does not exist!

    • Amy J.L. Baker

      Child victims of PAS May suffer Long Term Negative Effects
      My Research on adults who had been turned against one parent by the other when they were children revealed many negative long-term effects including depression, low self esteem, lack of trust, among others. As dfficult as it wilbe for Sean to transition from the home he has known for the past several years, he will probably be better off away from adults who are using him. Parental alienation is a form of emotional abuse of children.

    • forrest allen brown

      A Verdade
      I could not find out how they justfied what they did or was it there and i missed it ???

      just a power show it looked like easer to kill one off than to say we were rong and we are sorry .

      2 things you never get out of a brasilian

      i guess it is easyer to cover it up in brasil than in if the child got to another country and gave out the whole storie

    • A Verdade

      [quote]”giving into to kidnappers…” this aint the hostage crises
      [/quote]

      What do you call 70 american children being held in brazil illicitly and god knows how many others from all other countries? A day at the park?

      Read this, yet another Hague story not enforced and this time with deadly consequences. The xenophobia in Brazil is astonishing to the point where they’d rather let children die than return them to their country of habitual residence.

      [quote]
      `Tenho pavor da JustiÀƒ§a brasileria`, diz pai de menina de 4 anos

      Sasha Zanger, que Àƒ© austrÀƒ­aco, concedeu entrevista neste domingo (21).
      Ele disse que ex-mulher trouxe crianÀƒ§as ao paÀƒ­s sem o seu consentimento.
      [/quote]

      http://g1.globo.com/Noticias/Rio/0,,MUL1202371-5606,00-TENHO PAVOR DA JUSTICA BRASILEIRA DIZ PAI DE MENINA DE ANOS MORTA.html

    • Thaddeus Blanchette

      I think Brazil is shooting its own foot with the Goldman case. No matter what the particulars, there are many more Brazilian children abroad than there are American, so by ignoring the Hague Convention (or appearing to ignore it), we are ultimately putting our own children at greater risk.

      Nuf said about that.

      What amazes me, however – and I mean absolutely FLOORS me – is how this case has brought bigotry out of the woodwork among Yank ex-pats. I mean, a bad play by the Brazilian justice system is understandabable and deplorable. But to hear Yanks grandstand about how this could NEVER happen in the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave, because there the Little Man is respected by the rich and powerful…? I mean c’mon! What kind of drugs are they putting in the American water system these days?

      The U.S. has a terrible record when it comes to respecting international treaties. Your Congress has basically said – time and again – that it withholds the right to unilaterally abrogate any international agreement it enters into, any time it feels like it. Your justice system is so fouled and fucked that it can’t even deal with a CLEAR CUT violation of international law – the Guantanamo Prison- EVEN WHEN THE PRESIDENT IS AGAINST IT!!

      So dislike the Goldman case as much as you want, Americans. Just please bull me no shit about how this supposedly “proves” that the U.S. is a finer nation than Brazil.

      In the future, whenever anyone says I’m exagerating when I claim that far too many Americans are bigoted fools, I’ll just point them over to the ex-pat blogs that are currently writing about this case – many of these blogs written be people who consider themselves to be open-minded and liberal.

    • forrest allen brown

      VISA ARE A PAIN
      it took fatima 2 years and 3 months to get her perminent visa to the US .
      most in part to the huge back log of people trying to get into the US and the back ground check , but brasilian birth cirts are not well and good as a form of ID .

      try to do france they came on my boat 3 miles out to check if my boat was sea worthy and i had charts . then pulled the do you speak french so you can talk to the houbor master
      enough was my words in french , the port captian at that point though i was giving him a hard time and wanted to bar me from entering port there so i told him to kiss my a in french and said i would never set foot in his god for saken muslim country and took down his flag and turned out to sea with him and his people on board .
      at that point he said i could enter as he did not like the muslims and how his government had let them over run his home land and ruin it fo his cluture as they always say the french socity offend them .

      i told him the US had the same ordeal with the sothern border people demanding thing from my country that they dont even get in there home land .

      sam all ove r the world .

      parents just want better for there kids .
      and the government wants to give it to some one elese

    • asp

      for sure , forest, i have an obgective to not go to court….
      i instinctivly know i would probably not have things in my favor…or the truth is that some one else could grease the wheels with the right people better than i could , or the average common person…as in the states…

      bottom line ,i have low expectations . people get hurt coming in to brazil thinking they are going to do it their way, or how they were accostomed to . or think they can run things . not that some foreigners cant be succesful in brazil….they can…or think they are going to be slick with something or get away with something . a lot of foreigners think its ok for them to get away with something in brazil ( i learned really quickly when i first arrived in brazil waving a 50 dollar bill to try to get my larger luggage through and the official siad just put my money away and it took about a month and going there to kiss ass to get it out of some big deposito near the air port )

      but the truth is you just have to get in and bob and weave throuth the beauracracy…if you get pissed at someone, go back to square one..there is a fine art to dribbling through the mess…and, even if you think you got it down,it can slice you out below the knees…but that is no differant than dealing with immigration in the states…

      as far as my son’s brazilian passport renewal , they made him go through 5 differant things . the military gave him a break, luckily i did some probing and found a guy that cut us a break , but, every other entity we had to deal with sent us through 2 or 3 steps to be done . it cost a lot of time and money running around…..and he renewed his american passport with one trip to the consulate.

    • forrest allen brown

      NO THE PEOPLE
      LIKE IN THE STATES most people in brasil are good
      but the ones that have power money or the press have the power .

      i just got tired of all the crap in all countries and left them all i like water world .
      i dont answer to any laws but nature , most countries i dont even check in just get supplys and go

      and navys and coast guards i stay out past the line .

      but you know as well as i do if you go to cort in brasil with a brasilian no matter how much monsy you have and they dont you will loose !!!

      most cops ask for bribes , people from ibama will grant you rights even though they dont have the power , and take your money .

      its like a big maifa of pay ola there .

    • asp

      ive had rip off contracts in the usa , also , forrest
      ive signed contracts and everything and have been ripped off in the states, as well as brazil….i just dont buy the usa is squeaky clean and brazil is so dirty…

      you are speaking from your own personal experiance. the details you went through are specific to your case .for me, the bs comes from both countries , but, each in their own way.

      ive had good business and bad business in brazil.

      and i just got shot through the brazilian beauracracy grease for about renewing the brazilian passport for my son…so i am not naive in any way about what can happen down here. you just have to wade in and weal and deal and dribble through and around it and have a lot of patience and low expectations ,and, most of all understand it doesnt work like the states.

      and the usa has plenty of its own beaurocracy to wade through. and i know various people including my brothers who have been caught in nasty divorece and custody
      cases.

      what is similar is that people who are extremly rich and have access to high powered lawyers ,can manipule , excert influence and pay to make things go their way.you cant tell me that people with less money get breasks in the usa compared to people who are rich.this is just the human condition around the world

      its ridiculas to bash brazil, the people , the government etc about something that is more related to rich and powerful influence that could happen in another way in the usa if not to cases exactly like this one.

    • forrest allen brown

      ASP & Others
      like most people from the US David has been sold on the law is rith and just .
      in brazil it is the opsit if you see a cop , laywer,politican whatch your stuff become theres .

      I know i did beleive in law and lost my boat , but the brasilians that i delt with are now haveing to deal with me and my
      retobustion the brasilian way , life is not easy for them and i still sleep well at noght .

      as far as divid runing to the US embassy to seek asylum it wont happen because the nutless
      state department , and obama will just say two rongs dont make a right and then divid will loose all
      points he has any where.

      david made several trips to brasil but seans step father came up with more reasons not to show up with
      the boy . and just sat back and laught at the dumb gringo , as most brasilians do no matter how long you live there.
      you are still a gringo .

      for thoes whom that say the US is destorying fanilys by expeling mothers and fathers whom came here illeagly
      well there is a movement in the US to declare the anchor babbies null and void as the parents were invloved in commiting a felony
      in the US so the kids are just a guilty as the parents . we will see how that plays out !!!!!

      if brasil is such a aili to the US than why does it let this keep going ,
      most people beleive a country is like a person you are judje by your friends .

      brasilians never say we are sorry for any thing , and if they took it you never get it back even if the courts
      say to give it back , I know this to be true , and want some brasilian to prove me rong .

      only if by chance the hole brasilian family were killed would he get his son back

    • asp

      yeah ? well david is the one getting churned up by the beauracracy
      im in to getting what i want, not being right

      “giving into to kidnappers…” this aint the hostage crises

      david is the one suffering from the choices he made about how to go about this

      he lost 5 years, he will also have a kid who resents him if he takes him away from brazil.

      from your solutions , verdade, he aint going to get anything

      wake up

    • A Verdade

      Yeah…that’s the ticket!
      [quote]if he had gone to brazil a long time ago , and not listened and peid a lot of money to lawyers that didnt really understand what was going to happen , he would have spent more time with his kid.[/quote]

      Let’s all give into the demands of kidnappers and allow children from all countries to be kidnapped to Brazil and EVEN if their brazilian parent dies then the next door neighbor can claim him because he’s already “adapted to the frickin’ place!” 😉

      The sun and the cachaÀƒ§a have definitely gotten to some ex-pats here. 😉

    • asp

      and most important of all….
      im concerned whether theo will or will not get voted off the fazenda tonight….

    • asp

      the common man has a chance ?
      i think you are in a dream world if you think the common man has a chance against ceo’s , corporate lawyers , corporate media manipulation etc etc

      you know , it just absolutly floors me when i hear americans , which i am one , who think they have some kind of special pass compared to everyone else . do you realise what has happened to us in the last 8 years ? do you really get it or understand the real ramifications of how much our collective common rectums have been streatched ?

      think about this : think about most of the bush administration and understand most of them went to our hightest institutes of learning that money can buy….then think about the circle of bankers and investment firms and all the people in there who have also had some of the highest paid educations at these highest institurions…

      i mean really get that and then remember how deep we have sunk in the last 8 years at the hands of these privledged son of a bitches , how many of the common man’s lives have been ruined , how many common men and women have died or been maimed at the hands of these high educated individuals ….

      and then , worst of all , just think about the future debt, waste , decline , and world hate against the united states that these greedy , power hungry , ignorant snobs have left the common american children of the common american men and women for the future…

      while you are chewing on that , regina , think about this: i never meant to imply that american justice is the same as brazil. i say in its own way , america is just as flawed and beauricratic as brazil , where people of great wealth have the power to manipulate and influence how things can go…

      and where i understand emotion and people wanting david to be reunited with his son ,which i also want , this making it nationalistic and bashing brazil and putting it down and actualy threatening it , is ridiculas and pathetic and needs to be stepped on.

      in situations like this , the only thing david can do is dribble inside and out the beaurocracy , and start focusing on what he really wants about being with his kid. if he had gone to brazil a long time ago , and not listened and peid a lot of money to lawyers that didnt really understand what was going to happen , he would have spent more time with his kid.

      that is what i would have done…and you know those people would have paid his expenses to not process them…but im just saying that is what i would have done so nobody needs to get uptight as though this is my last stand at the alamo mandate , im more concerned about justice being done about the american woman killed in florianopolis , justice done to the killers of nun dorthy , and what is going to happen to the american woman who recently killed her brazilian husband

    • Regina

      ASP
      Why don’t you stop comparing apples & oranges for god’s sake, you comparing the American & Brazilian Justice System jsut shows how sophomoric you hav ebecome over the years in livign in that hell land, you can only which the day wil come when the brazilian justice can be compared to the american, where the common man has a palce & can win.
      You been living there too long & getting too much sun, it shows loud & clear.

    • mcv

      I wonder why US press did no do the same thing to all I said all the 357 kids that has their illegal parents “shiped back to their country” and the kids shipped to a governamental house for adoption
      what about the thousands and on..!!!!??? this is real and this has happening on
      New Bedford,MA.USA.
      sds
      Brazil’s laws may suck but ,….some other countries surpass it!!!

    • asp

      this is fundementaly super rich and powerful people exerting influence…
      ….and it happens in the states all the time. our history is loaded with the rich and powerful exerting their influence and dominating how the dice roll. in the courts , in the business world , in the financial world , in foreign policy ,in everyday life…the rich do things they want and manipulate the situation.

      they can break international treaties, invade countries, manipulate markets…its just the basic goddamn way the world works , bribe officials….it is just naive to asume the states is squeaky clean in this respect. look at how the indians were treated, and how many treaties were broken, look at the democraticly elected governments over thrown by the american government. look at how the realty companies and the government combined to create white flight and ghettos, look at the gulf of tonkin , iraq , look at racist atitudes about hiring people for jobs…even with laws in place ( the new york times had a recent article in post obama states about racist atitudes in hiring for jobs persists as strong as ever)

      its wrong to blame brazil in general for this , its just super rich people exerting their influence , like how the whole dirty world works.

    • carly

      We need international laws to handle child abduction cases. There is a related post at http://iamsoannoyed.com/?p=1866

    • George

      Brazil is a wonderful country, but it’s judges and politicians are mentally handicapped
      Universal law I think states that a child belongs with his “parents” or parent. That is all. it does not state a “country”. Brazil is acting like a spoiled little brat who cannot get enough ice cream and is throwing a tantrum. If Mr. Golman wants to take his son to Japan for the rest of his childhood, that is his right as a parent. No court can intervene. That is, no “just” court. Brazil, can you at least “pretend” to be educated? Stop the nonsense. Allow Mr. Goldman to return to the US with HIS son.

    • asp

      you have to know…..
      if sean is being manupulated and lied to , he will one day learn the truth and hate the people who manipulated him and lied to him

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