Unasur meeting This past March 10, all 12 members of the Union of South American Nations (UNASUR) dispatched their respective defense ministers to Santiago, Chile for the first meeting of the recently-formed South American Defense Council (SADC).

    Heralded as a "historic event" by Chilean defense minister and SADC president pro tempore José Goí±i, the summit was intended to create cooperative, coordinated and concrete military ties as well as promote transparency regarding each member state's defense expenditures.

    The initiative also proposed to foster mutual confidence amongst the region's historically antagonistic military establishments. The convened ministers promised collaboration on overseas and continental peace keeping operations, regional natural disaster recovery missions and humanitarian relief actions.

    Surprisingly absent from the SADC's agenda was the question of illegal drug and arms trafficking that routinely dominates the continent's security compulsions, making for headlines throughout Latin America. These, however, at least according to Goí±i, are considered "a police matter, not a military concern."

    As the ministers from Argentina, Brazil, Bolivia, Colombia, Chile, Ecuador, Guyana, Surinam, Paraguay, Perú, Uruguay and Venezuela descended upon Santiago, several underlying narratives preceded the Council's inaugural conference. For example, Colombia and Venezuela resumed their barely restrained bellicose posturing against one another, while the arms race between Chile and Peru continued to simmer.

    The attention of external actors also contributed to providing an action-packed backdrop for the SADC meeting. US dabbling in the region, in the form of the June 2008 deployment of its Navy's reconstituted Fourth Fleet, and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS) Admiral Mullen's recent tour of key US-allied countries, has been a significant feature in the lead-up to the summit.

    Moscow's request for official observer status has also enhanced the perception that outside forces are increasingly attempting to gain influence in the supposedly exclusively South American UNASUR.

    Tensions & Peace

    The March 2008 clandestine incursion by the Colombian Army into Ecuadoran territory resulted in the death of the FARC's second in command, Raul Reyes, alongside 20 other guerillas. Immediately after, a tense diplomatic standoff took place between Colombia's President Uribe, and Ecuador's President Correa alongside his ally, Venezuela's Chávez, united in their convictions that the Colombian army's actions were a brash violation of Ecuador's sovereignty.

    Both Venezuela and Ecuador immediately cut all diplomatic ties with Colombia, claiming that Bogotá was a proxy of Washington. After an intensive, if brief, dialogue, and near universal condemnation of Colombia's actions, Caracas and Bogotá made up, but the deep enmity between Ecuador and Colombia continues to smolder. At the November 2008 Rio Group, the three leaders shook hands, but the bad blood remains.

    President Lula da Silva saw in this ongoing confrontation an opportunity to collaborate with all of the UNASUR member states in order to create a defensive entity that would cultivate regional peace by promoting conflict resolution methods by means of a military-to-military communication networks.

    The intention of the SADC is not only to promote peace in the region, but also to bolster the credibility of the still nascent UNASUR. Although considered by some critics as a Latin American NATO, the SADC does not intend, at the present time, to form a regional security force or amass an international army.

    According to Brazilian Minister Nelson Jobim, the SADC is meant to serve as an internal conflict resolution platform as well as a medium to encourage multilateral defensive collaborations and consensus building.

    At the beginning of the Santiago summit, the ministers issued a joint statement, which declared that the Council was aimed at creating a "mechanism of integration, dialogue and cooperation" among Latin American countries. The ministers announced their intention to strengthen military cooperation, coordinate humanitarian interventions in the event of natural disasters, and reduce the asymmetry of military spending among the member countries.

    They stressed that it is time to provide a space for direct multilateral dialogue on military issues in order to increase transparency and smooth out historical conflicts. Goí±i told El Pais on March 8 that the aim was to avoid direct clashes by "inserting the discussions in the multilateral frame." He also added that the SADC must quickly find "an action plan" in order to reduce national disagreements with one another.

    However, the SADC is not aimed at taking positions on internal affairs, and as a result, crucial issues like drug trafficking are designated to be a police concern and thus will not fall under the Council's competence. Although a condemnation against belligerent non-state actors was made, a clear reference to the FARC, this limited mandate will prevent the SDC from taking any significant actions in this respect.

    Pleasantries Amongst Hostilities

    The initial harmony of the meeting was soon shattered by bellicose rhetoric from elsewhere in South America. While each nation's defense minister was meeting in Santiago, the leaders of several countries were leveling strongly-worded statements that threatened to undermine the SADC's purpose.

    A year after the Colombian military intervention in Ecuador, its defense minister, Juan Manuel Santos, declared on March 8 that it would be "self-defense to chase terrorists, inside or outside of own territory." Santos' remarks drew an instantaneous response from Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez, who retorted that he did not want to believe that "Colombia would have the idea to do in Venezuela what it did in Ecuador," and that he "would have no option but call the Sukoí¯" to fly over its neighbor (referring to its recently purchased Russian fighter jets).

    Ecuadoran President Rafael Correa increased the tension by telling El Comercio that it was "not an offense to be friends with the FARC." This clash, the very type of verbal attack that the Council seeks to avoid, monopolized talks on March 9, until President Uribe somewhat dampened matters by condemning his minister's statements and calling for mutual cooperation between the countries.

    However, diplomatic grievances did not end there; the meeting was seemingly riven by national resentments. The historical rivalry between Chile and Peru surfaced anew, as Minister Goí±i publically accused Lima of opacity for failing to announce its recent expenditures. "We have known about it by reading newspapers," professed Goí±i.

    The Peruvian Minister of Defense, José Bellina, argued that there was no reason to make the figures public as long as the recent investments were part of an "arsenal renovation." That same day, a third controversy took over the discussion as the representatives from Argentina, Uruguay and Chile brought up the espionage affair involving an Argentine citizen, accused by Montevideo of hacking into and using the email addresses of several politicians and dignitaries from the various countries.

    Cold War Redux

    Beyond regional clashes, the summit attracted the attention of two significant outside players, in the form of the US and Russia. The Pentagon sent JCS Chairmen Admiral Mullen to Chile, Colombia and Brazil, the week prior.

    His visit seems to illustrate an increasing US interest in Latin America after a significant stretch of indifference during the Bush years. Moreover, the erstwhile mothballed Fourth Fleet returned to Latin America in June 2008, after a hiatus of 50 years, creating an uproar of criticism from a number of Latin American countries.

    The rift which Washington has instigated in the region now promises to make it even harder for the SADC to reach any level of meaningful consensus on defense policy. It is, however, important to note that one of the few significant points of consensus within the SADC has been a common condemnation of the US embargo on Cuba as Minister Jobim asserted that, "the relationship with Cuba is a core condition for a change in US-Latin America relations."

    Previous public US military-to-military dialogues with Latin America had been forums for advocacy regarding accountability and restraint after the abuses committed during the region's "dirty wars" in the name of the Cold War. However, it was Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, who shifted the tone whereby Latin American military institutions were forced to face their abhorrent records, to a reality where they were looked upon by the Pentagon as an ally to reflect Washington's War on Terror.

    At the 2004 Defense Ministerial of the Americas held in Quito, Ecuador, Rumsfeld urged Latin America military leaders to crack down on "the asymmetric threats we face require that all elements of state and society work together," seemingly advocating a merger of the military and police forces to form one cohesive security apparatus – a historically fateful decision for Latin America to have to make.

    Furthermore, Russia, which is currently pursuing an ambitious program of diplomacy in Latin America, asked for a seat at the SADC as an observer, harkening back to the bad old days of the Cold War. While Moscow's request was not granted, these Russian and US maneuvers illustrate the importance that is already being given to the SADC by external powers and represent a concerted attempt on the part of outside actors to wield influence in an exclusively South American venue.

    The countries of UNASUR must treat such incursions in their continental dealings with suspicion. A driving force behind the group's formation was a concern with developing a uniquely South American approach in the face of an unattractive US vision based on its impunity for regional affairs.

    Thus, to allow Russia and the US to become entwined at this juncture – through the mechanism of "observer status," would invariably damage UNASUR's ability to achieve any meaningful continental integration, and turn the body instead into another potential battleground, and divisive tool, for these Cold War foes. SADC officials should resist permitting observer status to exist in its deliberations. The OAS sufficiently serves the purpose of allowing for the transmission of the influence of extra-regional countries.

    Mixed Prospects for Progress

    For the SADC to even begin to realize many of its ambitious aims, it will have to overcome a series of significant hurdles. South America is fraught with historical animosity, and the Council has come into being at a time when these fissures are ever more evident. Despite ostensibly being designed to mend the continent's fractured relations, its ability to do so will be hindered by the very divisions it intends to resolve.

    While it may have provided the impetus for the formation of the SADC, the diplomatic spat between Colombia, Venezuela and Ecuador has the potential to be one of the biggest thorns in the side of this attempt at regional defense cooperation; likewise, the historical mistrust between Chile and Peru, predictably continues to smolder. Remarks made before and during the meeting clearly demonstrated that the attention some of the region's leadership is concentrated firmly on entrenched bilateral quarrels.

    Latin American countries' military spending increased by 25 percent in 2008 compared to the previous year, and by 91 percent over the past three years. Colombia and Venezuela, whose respective outlays on defense rose by 13 and 29 percent in 2008, account for a sizeable proportion of this spending, and are locked in what could well be described as an arms race.

    Brazil, the main engine of regional integration and home to a sizeable defense industry, is also the biggest military power in South America. According to the International Institute on Strategic Studies, its annual defense budget rose by 32 percent in 2008 to $27.5 billion, the twelfth largest in the world. These statistics are not convincingly illustrative of a region inclined toward peaceful exercises and collaborative conflict resolution.

    Moreover, evidence from elsewhere in the world points strongly towards what could be the futility of UNASUR's attempts at defense integration. The European Union, whose members first developed economic cooperation, before establishing a political and monetary union, has still, after more than 50 years, failed to negotiate a common defense policy, despite its largely peaceful internal relations.

    While the SADC's agenda contains a number of useful points, and offers some positive prospects for fruitful collaboration – especially in relatively uncontroversial areas like natural disaster management, joint humanitarian operations and conflict resolution – it fails to address what is undoubtedly the most pressing regional issue, violent transnational drug trafficking rings, and in doing so, limits its relevance.

    Early signs indicate that the Council's mission could turn out to be a confused one; ministers used the Santiago summit for such diversified purposes as to condemn the U.S.' embargo on Cuba and air decades-old grievances, eclipsing at an early stage the goals they professed to be addressing.

    Consequently, the group's set of aspirations look far too ambitious to be realized at least in the near future. There are undoubtedly some prospects for progress that have the potential to further integrate the region.

    However, a common regional defense policy will be difficult to put together. Moreover, if the highly vocal bickering continues to characterize the SADC, the Council will likely descend into little more than a talking shop with severely limited clout.

    This analysis was prepared by COHA Research Associates Tomás Ayuso, Romain Le Cour Grandmaison and Guy Hursthouse. The Council on Hemispheric Affairs (COHA) – www.coha.org – is a think tank established in 1975 to discuss and promote inter-American relationship. Email: coha@coha.org.

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    • Show Comments (43)

    • asp

      really back on topic….
      some captured farc members are freely admiting equador allowed 7 farc camps in its borders where they received people from everywhere including europe and america to buy arms and drugs and that venezuele had been sending high powered mortors to the farc

      this from a report on terra.com.br sorry i cant get the direct link

    • Chato

      Back on topic
      [b]Dutch:[/b] Unie van Zuid-Amerikaanse Naties – UZAN, [b]Portuguese:[/b] UniÀƒ£o de NaÀƒ§Àƒµes Sul-Americanas – UNASUL, [b]Spanish[/b]: UniÀƒ³n de Naciones Suramericanas – UNASUR

    • ….

      Hey thereÀ¢€¦ Simplex Association of America!
      Did you called me À¢€œCuntstinka multi-dot Von Clausewitz ?À¢€Â

      Not even closeÀ¢€¦ You Stinka Freeka Suk My Finga!

      Yours truly,

      Costinha

    • asp

      alexander orlov
      well i waded through wikipedia , jdanials for gods sake you will have to give me a direct link to what you are talking about because all the information i see ,including the so called defenders of stalin only confirms what im saying , which is what i knew i would feel anyway…you are coming up really short …but i think you could get micky rourke to be trotsky

      yeah,simps,well its the new york in me, what can i say…

    • Simpleton

      “direct descendant of Von Clausewitz” – JDS
      “Wikpedia” – ??? (best try “Wikipedia” with “en” dot before and dot “org” after if your typing ever begins to falter Cuntstinka multi-dot Von Clausewitz.)

      Asp, advise you dig in to this guy (VCW that is, not Costinha). Interesting stuff about what he “said” vs what was really underlying it / what it’s meaning was in relational view / vantage point vs a common language reading of his words / wording would indicate – Here we lack “context” sometimes due to the absence of observation of body language, facial cues, etc., etc.. May give you a bit of a different sensitivity / selectiveness in what triggers your sense of being “attacked”. The associative bit about you and Costa sharing the “clap”, now that’s far and away from being decimated – save your hare trigger for the furballs and wabbits – I actually enjoy seeing that from time to time although I questioned whether it was a healthy way of life / workable “outlet” for you way back when you first showed up in these spaces.

      I need to go estate sailing now – see if I can either find or get rid of some things that are real messes.

    • asp

      jd…great joke, you really had us going there…
      comedy central is waiting for you

      …the lost book, coveted in the bowels of the usa jewish capitialists…the greatest scam of all time…historoy totaly rewritten…i mean those jewish capitialists even pursuaded the soviets to condemn stalin, i mean it didn have anything to do that they lived through that reality themselves ,the jewish capatilist infiltrated everything, manipulated it and changed it…

      have you run this idea by hollywood ? you could make a lot of money….speilberg may not touch it, he is jewish, but maybe copala would run with it…brad pitt could play stalin…if he is busy, get travolta or nick cage…

    • JACK DANIELS

      Senor da Silva:

      You actually can not get this book. I’ve searched all the dealers on the internet and it is impossible to get. I only found one copy at the Library of congress but they won’t release it. I found my copy accidentally at an estate sale.It is a mess. As for the other books that resemble this, the sons and grandsons of the Trotskyites have written similar trials but they are basically pumping out lies about Stalin. This book was actually printed by the government of Russia, not by Bukarin or Rykov or others whose father were executed.

      Also, I did research at our library looking into the NY Times which is published and microfiched in our library. The NY Times newspaper covers news from 1860. All the great events are there. The lead up to WWI, the lead up toWWII and the shamless way the NY helped America enter both wars. All the reports of the day are there. I studied Trotsky and Stalin and the NY Times. But most of all, I tried to make sense out of the Russian Revolution and what it was about. They had lots of enemies right from the start because they allowed themselves to accept any tom, dick and harry from anywhere in the world. As a result, they were infiltrated by hundreds of very smart intellectuals that essentially worked for an invisible government outside of their ranks.
      One could argue that this was the normal give and take in the struggle for the hearts and souls of Russia under a bulshevik government, but when you realize how many people ended up dead by unknown sabateurs and how many things went wrong through no fault of Lenin, it becomes obvious that there was another hand at work. South American leaders have all become acquainted with that black hand. One day, A leader like Fidel Castro is riding high with your people; the next day, you are disappeared never to be seen again. Castro survived but many others have not. Even Stalin is said to have been murdered. If you want to see General Noriega, you can visit him still. But, seriously, nobody is going to write a history of what happened in this area. The US is never gonna tell how many people they murdered in El Salvador, in Panama, in Nicaragua etc. etc. etc. More importantly, Google or Wikpedia is not going to spell out this history for you. You just have to piece together the sundried events and made a good faith guess at what happened.

      In the case of Stalin, and the Communist Revolution, the west has always tried to surround that event with mass murder, dictatorship, unspeakable torture and every obscenity man could imagine. But, when you read these trials, you realize what Stalin was doing and what Trotsky was up to. Stalin was trying to run a state based pm a marriage between Labor and Capital while the US and those bedbugs, the NEOCONS, were trying to destroy communism as they are today.

      These trials are ample evidence of who did what. I know what Stalin and Lenin tried to achieve and I know what the west tried to do and is today still doing.

    • asp

      you hit the nail on the head , joao
      …and another thing , danials, link us up with these referances, no body has time to go searching for information that im sure im just going to feel is the discovery of stalins prosocution notes

      god ive been sent on far too many wild goose chases on the internet from one idiots conspiricy therory to the next one, always with disapointing results. you have shown absolutly no information that makes me think you will be any differant

      hey simps, if you have been on here for any period of time you would see i go off on people who attack me for no reason

    • João da Silva

      Jack Daniels
      [quote]PS: I am always kicked off of sites. I suspect it is because we have so much freedom of thought and speech. No?[/quote]

      Now you are playing the role of a victim. Nobody is going to kick you off this site, just because you are coming out with some alternative conspiracy theories. As long as you come out with some [i]logical[/i] explanations of deeds and misdeeds of Stalin the people are willing to listen. So far what we have seen is your glued on to one or two books and insisting that Stalin was not really a dictator, but a great world leader and asking us all to buy the books. That leads me to believe that you are really the author and your real name is Prof.Igor Panarin.

      Having expressed my opinion [i]freely[/i] and without any fear of being expelled from this site, let me ask you a couple of questions:1) How do you justify Fidel Castro & his family holding on to the power without free elections. Some sort of Commie Messiahs ? 2) How do you justify the “NEWCOM” Chavez altering the constitution in Venezuela to get 3rd, 4th and Nth mandate.

      Jack, you better come out with some tangible evidences to substantiate your charges against various parties including ASP, instead of demanding that we all read the books recommended by you. It seems you are even against Google.

      Let me tell ya something, Jack. These days it has become fashionable to project oneself as a COMMIE and you are just riding that wave.

    • …..

      Simpleton and his over simplification of everything!
      Canˢ۪t rate your comments, they make no sense. But you still feel hated?

      Gimp, it’s a simple equation: You have to be rated to be hated, and you don’t rate.

      Costinha

    • JACK DANIELS

      Let Stalin Live
      Asp:

      Jees! didn’t anybody even look up the book? I have only found it once in the Library of Congress. You guys should read it.It’s actually a primer on how the CIA or the NEOCONS operated to undermine and take over a country. You guys must be real History Buffs. Using Google is imaginary. Might I suggestt Wikpedia? I wonder how many hits I would get for the identity of the Real Santa Clause?

      If you ever read the book, ask yourself
      (1) who killed all those people?
      (2) is this mind boggling or not?
      (3) Why did the US claim that Stalin killed them all?
      (4) Why did the US ssay they were purge trials?
      PS About Google:
      Was there any mention in Google about this book and about the persons who testified to killing Kirov?
      Was there any mention of the Gorky familty who were murdered also by defendents in the trials of the Trotskyites?

      8) 8) 😉

      PS: I am always kicked off of sites. I suspect it is because we have so much freedom of thought and speech. No?

    • João da Silva

      Simpleton
      [quote]And you you sly ol’tard JDS, forcing me to actually go look up your name droppings -[/quote]

      By any chance, are you addressing this remark to me, Simp? Any criticisms about my humble self may be directed to good ole ch.c. or “asp”. 😀

    • Simpleton

      Oops
      In being so hasty and terse I forgot to include the justly due “Wise” in front of “ol’tard”, but I trust someone with respect of us all will understand.

    • Simpleton

      And Costinha
      Please don’t retort with your classic “Pooof”y cum back regarding my mentioning windage factors.

    • Simpleton

      Given enough
      Jack Daniels and a bit of a loving prod in the right place makes everything possible. Our asp turns out to be the venom spitting type – cudo’s, you BF’d that juvenile deliquent (JD) espousing the communistic benevolence of a time long past. Costa backing out of any thing, withdrawing foguete’d forward complements or the opposite – now that’s quite a turn of events And you you sly ol’tard JDS, forcing me to actually go look up your name droppings – wow – and the scary part was not the resemblence in the historic records – it was the painting and what appears in my mirror. The part about VCW studying Kant was cool too.

      ch – don’t worry about the missle being aimed directly at you / you not being warned, it’s those that hit a bit up wind and then the cloud that drifts your way and lingers that will get you – can’t stay in most of those 15 year old bunkers forever, they weren’t designed for it.

      Enjoy all you Beaches ( Bottoms up!)

    • João da Silva

      Ch.c
      [quote]You should know that until 15 years ago, ALL Swiss houses and condos & commercial buildings and even municipal/states buildings
      were built with a ground bunker strong enough to resist nuclear bombs attacks ! [/quote]

      I did[i] not[/i] know about the bunkers in Switzerland, though I have seen the “Nuclear Shelters” in the U.S. What exactly happened to them, now that the cold war is over. Would be interesting to find out.

      [quote]Aside of this, I really insulted them…on my second e-mail. I swear ! [/quote]

      You are fully capable of insulting anybody and so I believe it. Probably the clerk who received it is consulting [i]hi/her[/i] boss who in turn is consulting higher ups. 😀 DonÀ‚´t forget that when you get old you get bold!!!!

      [quote]Is America not aa free speech country ? Lets see ! smile[/quote]

      I think still it is. At least my experience has shown. Brazil too, if you know how to keep your stiff upper lip. 😀 😉

    • ch.c.

      Joao….Joao….Joao on your “I hope you have an underground bunker to hide in. ”
      You should know that until 15 years ago, ALL Swiss houses and condos & commercial buildings and even municipal/states buildings
      were built with a ground bunker strong enough to resist nuclear bombs attacks !

      Very true !

      Thus to get me, they better dont warn me. And hit me with a missile…during my sleep !

      What else could they do ?

      Aside of this, I really insulted them…on my second e-mail. I swear !
      I cant copy and show you my e-mail because it was done through their World CIA factbook site !
      Thus no copy. You would laugh at what I wrote. No doubt !
      Is America not aa free speech country ? Lets see ! smile
      Time will tell…if you dont hear from me again !

      😉 😉 😉 😉

    • João da Silva

      [quote]On your comments regarding communism, I too have to withdraw my Claps! [/quote]

      Costa, my dear fellow, you must be a direct descendant of Von Clausewitz. 😉 😀

    • ……….

      My Dear Friend JACK DANIELS – Part 2
      On your comments regarding communism, I too have to withdraw my Claps!

      Crap,

      Costinha

      PS: Simpleton…. Up Yours!

    • asp

      your bullshit theories dont even deserve an educated responce
      you make a mockery of the truth

      its like the idiots that say the holocaust didnt happen , or that a missle hit the pentagon on 911 not a plane…

      there are a whole lot of french people reading a book saying a missle hit the pentagon and they are beleiving it.you cant say shit to these people, they have their mind made up like you do

      any argument i could put out is just going to be answered by you as saying its capatlist jewish lies (im not jewish by the way i just can smell bullshit when i hear it) . the only decent answer to tell you is that you are full of shit

      the whole world agrees that stalins is shit and even the soviets condemned him. this is the guy that signed a peace treaty with the nazi’s to not go into poland and let them go in hoping that the nazi’s wouldnt invade russia

      yeah, kicked chan kai chek out so mao could kill 20,000,000 in his back to the campo experiment….oh yeah that is really cool and upstanding

      man you are full of shit, your ideas are like dropping turds plopped on the ground, they are coming from your ass hole

    • asp

      you havent proved shit to me
      you are touting a book,and,hiding behind it like its fact

      anyone who sticks up for stalin has shit for brains, wake up

      to atribute the truth as its jewish capitilist lies just reveals what chump you are

      you go ahead and beleive your little book based on stalins prosecution notes, and,ill beleive the colaborated world truth about it. your credibility is pure dog shit to me

      simpleton, the clap is in your ass, fuck you too

    • JACK DANIELS

      asp MY ASP
      I quoted a book that proves who caused the famines in Ukraine and Russia and who it was that caused all the calamities that occurred throughout the state between 1917 and 35? If you don’t like that book, tell me why but don’t give me the dribble everyone hears to argue your case. This book incriminated the US and other covert operators and many of those on Trial who were executed admitted their guilt. Are you saying they were lying or forced to confess or that their “corraborated” testimonies were staged? That is what the west has always tried to imply by labeling these trials as a sham. Not you or anyone else will admit that what the West was really doing is trying to make a mockery of the truth. They were covering up the truth by character assasination. I have read lots of things that prove to me beyond a shadow of a doubt that what happened in these trials was true and certifiable. You and the US and England killed all those people, not Stalin.

      As for the war, you also were behind that and all the people that died in it were because of what you did, not Stalin. You were once again trying to destroy communism.I suspect that pretty soon you will be blaming everything that happened in the past year on communism. Stop acting like a jerk and prove to me that Stalin failed his people.He got them the bomb; he helped Mao kick the Chaiang Kai Chek Puppet out of China, and, before you killed him, he sealed up Russia as much as possible and brought peace to most of Russia. You could not tie his shoe laces.All you can do is cry “he was another Hitler.” Isn’t that what they said about Noriega? About Allende? about Argentina’s finest? about Arbenz? They were terrible Hitler characters?

    • João da Silva

      Ch.c
      [quote]I sent them 2 e-mails in the last 6 weeks…just to see if they would answer and/or correct their numbers.
      NO ANSWER.[/quote]

      Their answer may be slow to come, but when they do respond, it will be with a Hellfire missile.
      I hope you have an underground bunker to hide in. 😉

      Cheers

    • Simpleton

      Even notice
      Seems like Cost-In-Ho’s has gotten into the Jack Daniels and come up with one heck of a case of the “clap” (X15). The snake (asp) is clearly beside heshe and communicably has come up with a small case himself (X3). Stay away from the JD folks, that stale bottle of social communicable ills spilling out is no good for anyone’s health. If you just can’t, then be sure to wear your propaganda-camisinha, there are bitter pills enough to go around but no one should be forced to swallow.

    • asp

      yeah, why even have the cia anymore ( they all have been sent to bolivia, venezuela and equador)
      they seem like a joke . i mean they are undercover spies for gods sake and they keep getting sighted in bolivia , equador and venezuela usualy discovered within weeks of each other.

      the soviets , however , knew how to do it right.i did hear straight from an ex kgb agent interveiwed on brazilian tv , he casualy mentioned that in the cold war , they had spies in the military, the media, the congress, and in the universities in brazil. now those guys did it right, no one and i do mean NO ONE ever complains that they were running rampant in south america. arnt spies suposed to be invisible ? talk about brazil, they were there in spades in the 30’s

      thanks for the statistics correction , joao

      its really funny, jack, if i google up who killed kirov, i doesnt matter if i produce 1000 that say stalin had him killed, you will dismiss it as capatalist jewish lies. wow, what a neat trick…that only will be swallowed by you, it aint getting down my throat…

      man, you are incredible, most anti capitalists , especialy here in south america,are reading off the stale soviet union propaganda page with fidels snot all over it…oh man, but you have taken it an extra mile, you are reading right off stalins propaganda page…you must have gotten hold of his prosecution notes from that trial…the rest of the world has understood the truth , even the soviets, but , you are a die in the whool stalinist….that takes the cake

      but, you are so welcome here,ive seen the highest amount of cockeyed world theories here , it especialy came out at obama’s election ,,you are just part of a large gallery of kooks bringing in their world outlook…mostly college educated…you fit right in

    • ch.c.

      With a big laugh on CIA…yeah, the cia is absolutly running rampant in Venezuela !!!!!!
      Ohhhh yeahhhhh……. including with their IRREFUTABLE PROOFS OF WMD IN IRAQ !
      Ohhhh yeahhhhh…with their opposition to offshore/tax havens countries…..while being OFFICIALLY the World Largest Offshore
      Money CENTER !

      This Agency should change its name to CDA, CLA or keep CIA
      CDA….Central Disinformation Agency
      CLA….Central Lying Agency
      CIA….Central Idiots Agency

      A short true story on Central Idiots Agency…..
      As per the World CIA factbook, for Switzerland, they show for 2008, total imports at US$ 210 billion, exports at US$ 170 billion.
      Meaning US$ 40 billion Trade DEFICIT!
      CORRECT ?
      Well…we had our Historical Highest Trade…SURPLUS at around…. US$ 17 billion.
      I sent them 2 e-mails in the last 6 weeks…just to see if they would answer and/or correct their numbers.
      NO ANSWER. NO CHANGE MADE YET IN THEIR TOILET PAPER FACTBOOK RECORDS !

      Just another one from the same toilet paper roll :
      the Brazil Actual GDP was US$ 1,305 trillion for 2007
      their 2008 Actual GDP estimates went to 1,588 trillion for 2008

      Or an increase of 22 % !

      Viva America
      Viva Ohhlala. We aint see nothing yet !
      😀 😉 😀 😉 😀 😉 😀 😉 😀 😉 😀 😉 😀 😉 😀 😉 😀 😉

      Last but not least :
      As you may know or not, your Bear Hug Idiot and his gang lieutenants the Ex Bimbo Dilma and the ex sugarcane worker Mantega are in the USA now.
      Here is what SHE said “Talking to investors, Cabinet Chief Dilma Rousseff emphasized earlier today that the Brazilian economy will resume growth this quarter. Growth will accelerate in the second quarter, Rousseff said without elaborating”

      GREAT NEWS ISNT IT ???????? 😉

      But…but…but…..same day : “Latin AmericaÀ¢€™s economy may contract 4 percent this year, the most since at least 1980, as consumer confidence in BrazilÀ¢€™s gross domestic product may drop 4.5 percent, It is hard to handicap the magnitude or the duration of the current downturn in Latin America, Gray Newman and four other economists for Latin America at Morgan Stanley wrote in todayÀ¢€™s report. À¢€œWe are concerned that it will suffer — along with many other emerging economies — from much more limited space to engage in counter-cyclical policy.”

      “Morgan StanleyÀ¢€™s forecast for a contraction in Brazil, Latin AmericaÀ¢€™s largest economy, would mark the biggest drop in the countryÀ¢€™s GDP in at least 61 years, according to figures by the national statistic agency, whose annual GDP series starts in 1948. BNP Paribas SA economists say BrazilÀ¢€™s GDP may shrink 1.5 percent this year, while economists surveyed by the central bank forecast a 0.59 percent expansion this year, according to the median estimate of the survey published today.”

      😮 😮 😮 😮 Ohhlala, Ohhlala !

      Information……Disinformation ?

      😀 😉 😀 😉 😀 😉 😀 😉 😀 😉

    • asp

      stalin a great leader?
      all right jack,clap clap clap , take a bow let it all hang out….stalin a great leader…anything ever written against him is just a jewish ,capatalist lie…

      get a grip buddy, even the soviets regected stalin…you are losing credibllity by the minute…by the second

      stalin a great leader……oh man ha ha ha ha ha ha ha …you got any more of your capatalistic critiques, because you are hilarious…and i need a laugh

      comunism, never will work, never did

    • JACK DANIELS

      Stalin was a great leader…
      asp:

      There is a history of lies especially when history is written for unsuspecting Americans by Neocons and Jews. There are even a lot of American professors that pump the garbage out that you just pumped out about Stalin and communism. The truth is that I know better.
      Have you ever read the purge trials where Stalin killed off all of his partners so that he could become the unchallenged heavyweight of communism. Have you read the professors who preach that Stalin murdered millions using famines? This is all a crock.

      In 1938, the last of the so called Purge Trials happened. These trials were written in English for our consumption and they tell us a story of the depravity of the west and how they were involved in the murder of millions of Russians in an effort to destroy Communism.

      In the following book:
      8 Report of Court Proceedings in the case of the Anti-Soviet À¢€œBloc of Rights and Trotyskyites À¢€œ heard before the Military Collegium of the Supreme Court of the USSR Moscow March 2-13, 1938, Verbatim Report, Published by the Peoples Commissariat of Justice of the USSR Moscow 1938

      covert spies, the 38 or so defendants and ringleaders, were behind the attempted destruction of the Bolshevik government. These people had been sent by the US, Germany, and Great Britain to destroy the communist government and the harder they tried, the more people they killed. When they couldn’t kill of successive Bolshevik government, they started killing Russians and manipulating agencies. The trials are the proof of their depravity and the blow by blow account of the murders they were guilty of. They attempted to set up bases in Ukraine and Poland; they had generals ready for a coup; they had corrupted leaders of various satellite states…the harm they did is all accounted for in these trials. They tried to involve Japan and many other nations in their schemes and in the end, they made a fatal mistake when they murder Kirov and the great writers of the USSR and a great friend of J. Stalin.

      Ambassador Joseph Davies from the US attended the public trials in Moscow as well as many other ambassadors. They all attested that the trials were fair. As for the famines that killed millions of Ukrainians and Russians, it turned out the Trotskyites had been behind this in an effort to ruin communism and Stalin. These trials represent prima-facia evidence as opposed to all of the propaganda claiming that Stalin killed everyone and communism was discredited. If people could only see whose hand was behind what happened, capitalism would surely be discredited. It appears that the only way capitalism can win is by terrorizing the world and floating lies. You knowÀ¢€¦lies like how much you care about life, liberty and happiness?

      By the way, the only reason, I suspect, that Stalin became leader of Russia was because these same thugs that were tried in these so called Purge trials destroyed many of the leaders with high explosives. on several occasions, when all the leaders were holding meetings, one of the Trotskyite/Neocon spies killed everyone with a bomb. You can see these accounts in the NY Times of the day. .It seems that the real communist leaders that were left were the ones that were either covert spies or people like Stalin and Molitov.

      Notwithstanding, the US let it be known after these trials were Purge Trials designed to get rid of Stalinˢ۪s enemies. They were held to prove to the people of Russia that capitalist forces had been behind many of the troubles from 1917 onward. The west used the trials to discredit communism. But to be clear, the trials achieved their aim of getting rid of a lot of the westˢ۪s criminals like the ones that were behind the overthrow of the Arbenz government or those involved in Guatemala, El Salvador, etc. All you need do is to read the sworn statements of the accused and to read each criminalˢ۪s testimony to see who killed all those millions. It is there in Black and White.

    • João da Silva

      asp
      [quote]yeah, the cia is absolutly running rampant in venuzuela,they are everywhere and creating havoc ennormously. but, as usual they are some incompetent f**ks, after all, the usa ambasdor has been kicked out , all the opisition tv stations have been closed down, now the ports and airports of the opisition states in venezuela, god those cia guys are really pretty bad , they cant get any damn job done anymore.[/quote]

      You are right vizinho. If Allen F.Dulles was alive today, he would have been ashamed of the performance of his disciples. 😉

      BTW, the casualty figures of various world conflicts you have mentioned are around 20% below the real figures. Maybe, our Swiss blogger would be good enough to correct them. 😉

    • asp

      well, great analysis , jack , but you left out the other half of the story….
      the part about 40,000,000 people dying in world war 2……20,000,000 people died under stalins regime in comunist soviet union….20,000,000 people died in mao’s volta a campo campain…6,000,000 died under the khemer rougue in cambodia, thanks to usa involvement in viet man, yet those figures speak to the brutal reality of comunist ” elimination of the opisition ” tactics

      most armed conflicts in the last 50 years have involved fundimentalist islamic groups ( i saw this fact , just cant link it up now , but, do the research), that , yes, usa invasion of iraq is as dirty low down as it can get and bestows the crown of imperialism all over it. how many iraqis have died from it? i dont know the exact figure but the iraq iran war killed 1,000,000 people. i dont think its as high as that….

      the afghanastan civil war killed 1,000,000 people…

      the congo is a holocaust and middle passage put together…so many people are raped enslaved killed and destroyed over tin mines so you and me can comunicate on a computor and listen to our sound equipment …is that the usa’s fault or all of our fault? i dont ever hear these types of world analysis critiques include the congo ( you can go back to lumumba if you want to , but, che’s dirty little imperialistic finger prints are all over that time too)

      the whole world is dirty , jack, real dirty…people faught their dirty little wars during the cold war, taking out thier own class and political divisions against each other, and , freely and happily invited the usa and the soviet union to participate…and , these dirty little wars were faught so we all didnt have to go up in a world nuclear war blaze of combustion…everyone is dirty…

      do you think brazil military needed the usa to fight comunism ? they had been fighting it since 1935, using torture and persecution…they didnt need the usa , they just got tacit agreement.

      by the way, comunism does really suck…if you want a son of a bitch pointing his finger in your chest and saying you cant start your own business , i suggest you go ahead and have it

      chavez ? he is a democraticly elected president, and now has been elected to be able to run for life…..i have no desire for anyone to asasinate him ,or overthrow him. i say let the will of the venezuelan people speak…i just think any thinking brazilian should know he supports farc

      yeah, the cia is absolutly running rampant in venuzuela,they are everywhere and creating havoc ennormously. but, as usual they are some incompetent fucks, after all, the usa ambasdor has been kicked out , all the opisition tv stations have been closed down, now the ports and airports of the opisition states in venezuela, god those cia guys are really pretty bad , they cant get any damn job done anymore

    • João da Silva

      [quote]And now, they want to reinvent the the UN Charter and Project itself into UNASUL[/quote]

      Jack, my hats off to you for calling the new bloc by its correct name “UNASUL”. You must be pretty familiar with our language.

    • …….

      AugustusÀ¢€¦
      Mr. Chavez, the President of Venezuela, is not a dictator by any measure!

      Just because the US does not like Mr. Chavez strategies, americans have attempted to assassinate him at least once, call his government a À¢€œregimeÀ¢€Â even though he was À¢€œdemocraticallyÀ¢€Â elected by the Venezuelan people, tried to create chaos, discord and disruption in that country, and so forth. Even though I donÀ¢€™t agree with Mr. Chaves means, I do fully understand his reasons.

      In short, what is happening in Venezuela is the classical CIA intervention, to first dehumanize a people, then demonize them, and then eliminate them. A similar american tactic with Iran.

      Augustus, you are way off on this one.

      Costinha

    • …….

      My Dear Friend JACK DANIELS.
      Standing Ovation:

      Clap..Clap..Clap..Clap..Clap..Clap..Clap..Clap..Clap..Clap..Clap..Clap..Clap..Clap.. and Clap!

      You Tha Man… Costinha

    • JACK DANIELS

      IS THE UN FIASCO AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT IS WANTED
      The model of the UN and it’s structure and purpose are admirable; the reality is very sick. Power is vested in the Security Council and in covert forces that operate beneath the radar. The rule of Law is uniformly ignored and the US does what it wants. The Charter says “if you have any differences, discuss them. Don’t take the law into your own hands…Don’t wage war. Work it out in the UN…” On the other hand, George Bush and his right wing wacks as well as other presidents have used invisible forces to wage war and to say “We don’t talk to terrorrrist…” The long and short of this policy…”screw world peace and screw you.And screw any international treaty that stops us.” We’ll torture you, we’ll kill you with drones, we’ll spy on you, we’ll listen to your most private conversations, well rob you, well force you…we’ll do what we want and if you don’t like it, tough.” This has been American foreign policy since the inception of the Charter.

      And now, they want to reinvent the the UN Charter and Project itself into UNASUL and forget its history in Nicaragua, Chile, Panama, the attempted assanation of Mr. Chavez, … Where does it end? These unions like that of the OAS are frought with trouble and any Defense council should be questioned when the US or one of its puppets is involved. One should never forget the past and the sadistic treatment and greed of some. And lets get real. The UN is a war machine today because of the US. You can’t seriously think that the US is not trying to extend its total influence in South America? Hasn’t Eisenhouer, Nixon, Reagan, and the Bush’s taught you anything?

    • tom nyc

      WTF!!!!
      Almost universal condemnation !?!? After the the captured FARC laptops were released Correa and Chavez were exposed as the incompetent fools they are,an were treated like lepers in the worldwide commnity (and justly so). Correa hasn”t come out from under his rock since! And as for beligerency te Ecuadorian and venezuelan armies combined wouldn”t amount to an afternoons worth of work for the Columbian army. And to think it took THREE fascist morons to write this drivel-they”re even more stupid than the “journalist” morons we have here

    • asp

      with statements like equador’s president, correa “its ok to be freinds with farc…”
      …and, chavez’s admiration and obvious support of farc, i cant blame columbia for being extremly wary of these leaders

      i dont think any brazilian can underestimate the damage farc contributes to daily brazilian life in brazilian big cities and on the borders .

      while they didnt cause the brazilian problems with the drug gangs, they are serious players in this on going horror show of gun running , drug traficing , burning buses, police battles and lost bullets that are slaughtering innocent civilians

    • ……..

      JoÀƒ£oÀ¢€¦ You probably heard
      À¢€œAbsolute Power Corrupts Absolutely,À¢€Â as the case of the US. TheyÀ¢€™ve been dominant and rogue way too long, and have abused that position just as former empires (i.e. The Roman Empire).

      Inevitable, the US is going down and now see their influence and relevance, diminishing around the world. Why power to Venezuela? Keep them gringos occupied with trivial matters, while Brasil and others solidify their positions.

      Costinha

      PS: OK, you got meÀ¢€¦ call it UNASUL, UNALESTE, UNAOESTE, but pleaseÀ¢€¦..not UNANORTE.

    • João da Silva

      [quote]The only problem with Unasur…[/quote]

      Though I am happy to hear opinion, I am disappointed in you for you are insisting in calling this bloc UNASUR. My dear fellow, it is UNA[i]SUL[/i].

      [quote]In my opinion…. more power to Venezuela! [/quote]

      Please explain why we should give more power to them? 😉

    • …..

      The only problem with Unasur…
      Is the heavy hand of the americans in the Colombian internal affairs. In essence, the Colombian government has become a US of A puppet.

      In my opinion…. more power to Venezuela!

      Costinha

    • Simpleton

      Jumbles and typos
      User Sirs. Usuals. Interdopers. When will the international craving for what these bloc party jerks are already organizing themselves to supply end? Isn’t developing the natural Brasil (under)economy for drug marketing enough FARCing around with things? USSR observationists are wanting a seat to peak in on things only to ensure USA doesn’t somehow underhandedly, from a non-participatory role, gain some “control” or undue sway over the affairs? Serious countries in the region will get serious but it doesn’t look like there’s going to be enough of them any time soon. Brasil should just do and follow the path forward and up as it is doing and tell the others to FARC off once they have their overwelming match for the sukoi’s in place, crews trained and material support infrastructure stocked.

    • João da Silva

      Augustus
      From the names of the authors, I can easily make out that they are some foreign interlopers messing into our domestic affairs. Besides, our friend Prof.Ch.c has been warning us constantly about these folks from COHA. Therefore I request you exempt me from commenting.

      Another thing that irritates me about these “Interlopers” is that they keep on referring to this new bloc as “UNASUR”, whereas the correct terminology is “UNASUL”. That shows how disrespectful they are towards our language. 🙁

    • Augustus

      ASP
      What else could one have expected from the Venezuelan dictator?
      At least I will concede that the Beast In Chief from Caracas had the courage to admit his close ties with FARC…
      NOW…. IF the beast admited THIS MUCH… Shouldn’t we wonder what else is not being disclosed in connection with this issue?

    • asp

      correa “its ok to be freinds with the farc…”
      well my god if that isnt the most incriminating statement about correas relationship with farc i dont know what is…

      i mean wtf, the guy is saying its ok to be freinds with one sob destabalizing element in south america. a bunch of drug traficing , gunrunning, kidnapping , terrorist scum bags

      there are so many facts on the table that the farc is deeply entwined with activities that are decemating brazil’s largest cities, and, kidnapping innocent young people off the borders ( ive seen two seperate reports about this from family members in brazil)

      i try to be pacient with some of these leftest leaders to see if they can actualy help their people , but, idiocy like this defintly makes correa look like one stupid ideologicle chump

      i wouldnt trust someone who thinks its ok to be freinds with farc as far as could throw a bus with my hands chained to a tree

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