Lula Ridicules Free Market and Sees Self as Don Quixote Amid Cassandras

    Lula speech

    Lula speech Commenting on the international economic crisis during a trip to Rio, Brazilian president Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva said that sometimes he feels like a lonely soul being an optimist when the whole world seems to be blue and depressed.

    "Now and then I feel like a Don Quixote. Sometimes I feel alone attempting to preach optimism," said Lula to an audience of intellectuals and artists gathered for the launching of the Audiovisual Fund.

    Lula compared the market to a teenager who boasts of having become independent only to rush back to their parents home when he gets his first belly ache.

    "When the market had the belly ache, which was an unbearable diarrhea, who they called to save it? The State that they decried for 20 years. That's why the market needs oversight and regulation," affirmed Lula.

    The president then went on with an analogy that brought some malaise to the audience when Lula used quite an off-color language:

    "Imagine if one of you were a doctor and had to see a sick patient. What would you tell him. Look, comrade, you have a problem, but medicine has already advanced a lot, science has already advanced a lot, we're going to give you some medicine, you are going to get well again? Or you would say: F–k you? Would you say that to a patient of yours? You wouldn't," he observed, getting a few embarrassed laughs in return.

    According to the president, the country has no reason to despair: "The analysts on duty keep saying that we need to cut expenditures, but you can't do this in a country where everything still has to be done. The bigger the crisis, the bigger should be the investment."
     
    He believes Brazil can easily overcome the crisis though: "We have a financial system capable of giving lessons and we are not involved with subprime loans." He reminded his audience that Brazil has US$ 207 billion in reserves and a public debt of 26% of its Gross Domestic Product (GDP), "while in Italy this rate is 106% and in the USA, almost 70%".

    "Brazil diversified its exports. We made the decision that we would not depend on a single block in the world. The trouble is that the world has a GDP of US$ 65 trillion, while the financial market's GDP had US$ 650 trillion. This difference disappeared. Is it possible that all this money that disappeared is in the Cayman Islands? If it were the case, the island would have already been sunk. My neurons cannot understand," he observed.

    The president made fun of those he called the colonized section of the elite, who, according to him, was impressed with American president-elect Barack Obama announcement that he will create millions of jobs in the US.

    "A portion of the elite is still colonized. When Obama said that, many people commented: "What a fantastic thing." But I would like to remind you that this year alone Brazil has already generated 2.149 million jobs," Lula stated.

    The Brazilian president said that he believes that the current crisis is worse than the 1929 Depression, which is considered as the most serious crisis capitalism ever had. Whatever the case, Lula reasons, Brazil cannot lose courage.

    "We cannot cower in times of crisis," observed the Brazilian leader. "The worse the crisis is the more we are going to invest because this creates jobs and generates income. We cannot allow that the economy's Ferris wheel stop going around."

    Lula has been recommending to governors and mayors that they keep on investing.

    "No president would sign the release of funds for this audiovisual project in a crisis period, but I am doing exactly the opposite. I am recommending to state governors and mayors that they do not stop investing not even a cent," he added.

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    • Show Comments (51)

    • dnbaiacu

      Augustus
      post your website address please. I failed to mark it.
      I want to see this essay you are talking about.

    • dnbaiacu

      Joao… On Lloyd
      I enjoyed his essay also. I agree that Lula has “done his job”.. He has to enamor the masses with social programs and get them accostomed to “dependency” which will “buy their allegiance” even under the most morally compromising (due to come) circumstances.
      When one is “poor” economically (which is usually relative to the other barrio mais nobre) BUT content, one is in a better position to not be manipulated idealogically by a system intent on “feeding you” in exchange for your “allegiance”. Which will ultimately demand some sort of “spiritual” compromise. It is the health of your spiritual soul that will determine longevity and finality of your material wretchedness. If that is “corrupted” . And sold to be maintained “corrupted” , there is no longer any hope.
      For the “powers that be” controlling you with an economically oppressive situation , keeping you “dependent” is not enough. They want to buy your “consciousness”. ” I feed you.. You do as I say. Believe as I would have you believe.”
      Most of the poor are afflicted by their own vices. 😥 Sorry , but this is true. Eliminate some of these vices and the next generation may have a chance at not wanting to be “spoonfed” by the system that eventually will ask mental and spiritual allegiance.
      Brazil,, particularly the Northeast will just SLIDE right on into the program. Have the masses on “one accord”. Much easier to control. 😉
      In retrospect what Lula is accomplishing was previously financed by the $30 billion loan that was subsequently “paid off” to create an “investment grade level” that subsequently lured even MORE into debt. 😥
      So now you owe or are literally being “fed” by the system. Not a situation to “back out of ” so easily. Therefore facilitating the annexing of your soul “voluntarily” to the SYSTEM. 😥
      A lot simpler to do in Brazil where the culture is generally PASSIVE. A situation nutured by the Catholic church.
      This process is a little harder to do in the U.S . But is being accomplished quite effectively. Albeit with more of a “distraction”, “surprise” and “attack” effect. Equally “culturally compatible. Do you see the little show we are being forced to attend as to whether the auto industry will be bailed out? But Americans are a little more analytical and critical of things. So the “show” is necessary to minimize the potential of an outright revolt. To my knowledge a process such as this would never take place in Brazil. The public isn’t interested.. They want the “novela” aspect of politics. The corruption “after the fact” on the news. And gripe and complain about there is nothing they can do about it. 😉
      Thankyou Catholic church and syncretism. !
      On Haiti…..
      Brazil is syphoning off some money from the invovlment somewhere. Someone is CAPITALIZING off of it. Haiti will never be liberated on this side of Armagedon because it is a BLACK country.. A DARK BLACK country. TOO CLOSE to the U.S for comfort! Why everyone stays in denial about this is beyond me.??? 🙁 😮 🙁 😮 🙁 It is what it is.. Call it as you see it. Race is an issue in the U.S. Money is made and intimate barriers are maintained keeping it “institutionalized” overall.
      If one final Hurricane were to completely destroy Haiti once and for all , the elite of Washington would not shed a tear.. …. KATRINA
      Better let the “mongrels”of Brazil pretend they are “helping”. To date U.N peace keeping are just a form of “welfare” anyway.. We all know this. Why is the question being asked!
      We should be asking who is really getting paid???
      The Brazilian presence is just and extension and example of wasteful federal beaurocracy to create jobs for and elite class and their progeny.. Nothing more, nothing less.
      Haiti will stay Haiti, without education. They are just being “policed” and participants in co-dependency. The Brazilian elite dependent on “beaurocratic fluff”. And Haite being dependent on being fed and policed.
      Depressing…. Alll of it! 😥

    • Falupa

      HaHaHa! This is hilarious. Don Quixote, huh? I don’t know what to think about this. I don’t believe that he has said anything that can resemble a more ridiculous comment than this.

    • dnbaiacu

      Lula Translation
      [quote]Lula has been recommending to governors and mayors that they keep on investing[/quote]

      Keep selling yourselves to the system.
      It remains to be seen what this “new system” will accomplish. .??????
      I find it interesting how Brazil is becoming a “bargain” again (albeit under the table) I wonder how much of a part that will play in its future???? Some Brazilians went back home a little to soon it appears. They should have waited until the dollar is completely trashed. But I guess if you don’t have a job in the U.S what good is that to you at this moment? Over a half a million jobs lost in November. No end in sight to the madness. 😥 😮 😮 😮
      You have to learn to synchronize YOUR plans with THEIRS. ( the powers that be)
      KNOWLEDGE is a BLESSING

    • Augustus

      Lloyd Cata – Where did you go?
      After ALL the effort to answer his questions with my views Mr. Lloyd Cata either disappers or remains silent….
      I’m disappointed…

    • asp

      joao, they opened up some lanes
      but, who knows if rains might close it up again….

      yes,ive seen those other wonderful beaches, but, with out a car, i only get there occasionaly

      but, since 3 years ago, with the investment of some sao paulo money, my beach transformed from a beach of families and celulite ( which was great for raising my kid) to a young peoples playground….to my delight…

    • Augustus

      DNB – YOUR REQUEST
      This is the address you have requested
      http://augustus-99.blogspot.com/
      Feel free to leave any comments, at any secition…. Simmilar to this site, you can place remarks at any separate entry (at the bottom)
      Cheers

    • forrest allen brown

      AND WHAT HAVE WE LEARNED IN THIS LINE
      i am better of than all of you as i dont have to put up

      with any form of government and there lies ,
      peoples of apointed offices wanting to rob me

      as a boat nick all i have to do is make sure my cash

      flow is in a place where no government can get to it
      so far it is easy to do

      Be DEAF when people tell YOU
      that you cannot fulfill your dreams!

    • Augustus

      JOAO – An Improved version of 1964 text now available at my blog (along with a speculative alternate Universe where such event never occurred…
      JOAO
      Immediately after concluding my entry on the Coup dÀ¢€™Àƒ©tat, I decided to further revise it AND create yet another “MULTIVERSE” related essay, where I have endeavored to conjecture the immense impact which a failed or NON-existing Brazilian revolution might have upon the entire planet (today).

      As customary, I would appreciate if you were in a position to indulge with your invaluable opinion and/or criticism… 8)

      DNB – your comments would also be very welcome, should you consider granting me a few minutes of your time… 🙂

    • João da Silva

      asp
      [quote]but, i apreciete your referance to the past couple of good days down here. i did have one of those marvelous beach days that i am lucky to be near where i live. i swear, ive been to some incredible beaches in the last 6 months on some business trips, and where i live, when the sun does shine……its unbeleivible…..you know , the beach near open shopping ….ive probably seen you there , right ?[/quote]

      I know where your hideout is, kiddo! I think that I have seen you ,though you might not have seen me!! The last time I condescended to visit your “Open Shopping”, I could only see the Gringos speaking in their “Strange” lingo (though well behaved). I pretended that I didn’t understand a word of what they were saying. Of course I could spot you out easily because of your colorful language ( 😀 )

      Glad that you had a good week end. That spot you live is very nice. Further up, you have some fantastic beaches too. You must have visited them all. Just make sure that you are prepared for another bout of bad weather starting Wednesday.I hope the Island does not get submerged. 😥

      BTW, I read today that they cleared the stretch of the “Highway” that was covered by the landslide on your way home from the airport.Is it true?

    • João da Silva

      Augustus
      Your last two comments on our glorious revolution of 64 are very interesting and I am glad that you brought this subject up, though I would prefer you not to call it “Coup detat” or “Dictatorship”.Lets go one by one.

      [quote]The 1964 Brazilian coup d’Àƒ©tat was conducted by the Brazilian military in late March 1964 against President JoÀƒ£o Goulart, who had recently succeed the (allegedly deranged) democratically elected JÀƒ¢nio Quadros (a.k.a. Jango) in 1963. (I seem to recall my Grand Mother several years later explaining that Mr. Goulart had resigned due to À¢€œstrange issuesÀ¢€Â hinting some sort of À¢€œparanormalÀ¢€Â and/or mythological/ritualistic mattersÀ¢€¦ Very strange indeed! LOL)[/quote]

      Your Grandma was perfectly correct, except that Mr.Goulart did NOT resign due to stange “issues”. It was Janio. Of course, I pardon you for confusing JoÀƒ£o with Janio (though it really offends me). What your beloved Grandma failed (or she did and it did not get into your dumb head) was at that time a)the inflation rate was low b) the unemployment rate was very HIGH, without any perspective for the educated people to have decent jobs, let alone well paid.c) Jango , the brother-in-law of Brizola trying to bring in Peronismo (Brizola was a big land owner) into Brazil, which was not acceptable to good Brazilians like your Grandma. d) There was a big “PanelaÀƒ§o” in Rio during that period and probably our grandma also participated in it!!

      In short, it was the middle class and the “Commoners” joining together to question the “Caudilhismo”.

      [quote]The crux of the issue lies in the fact that Jango, in all fairness to the upper-level, rightwing military elements of the time, was undoubtedly a À¢€œclosetÀ¢€Â socialist during the height of the cold war, around the time of the Cuban missile crises.[/quote]

      No. They were not “Closet” socialists. They were just “Caudilhos” who wanted to control the “Povo” and they really did not have any ideological affliation. They just wanted to keep the “Commoners” at the right place and shut the mouth of educated middle class Brazilians.

      [quote]The coup thrust Brazil into a military dictatorship lasting until the election of Tancredo Neves in 1985 [/quote]

      It was not a “Dictatorship”, but a “Government”.

      [quote]According to Senator Jarbas Passarinho, Minister of Labor during the dictatorship, the 1964 coup dÀ‚´etat “avoided the imminent communist threat represented by several world and local manifestations, such as: military insubordination in 1963 in Brasilia, mariners in 1964; Fidel CastroÀ‚´s, Che GuevaraÀ‚´s, China, Soviet Union and Cold War”.[/quote]

      It was not Senator Jarbas Passarinho in 1964, but Col.Passarinho. A great Brasilian intellectual. Officer and gentleman. Hope the history will recognize his role in focusing on keeping the Reds at bay during those difficult times. He had acknowledged a few years ago that CIA had nothing to do with the “Change of regime” in 64 and indeed it was a homegrown revolution. The Brasilians of current time should thank him for the freedom they enjoy. BUT….BUT…., we forget to read about our past history. Ie. We have short memory. 🙁

      BTW, I would like to thank you for the great comments you made about 1964 revolution. Your Grandma would be proud of you.

    • Augustus

      THE BRAZILIAN COUP DÀ¢€™ETAT OF 1964 // FINAL REMARKS – by Augustus Severus
      [u][i][b]FINAL REMARK[/b][/i][/u]
      Although most Brazilians may disagree with my position, I am nearly convinced that, in the event the Brazilian military, with the support of the CIA, had NOT interfered in 1964, Mr. Quadros or an eventual successor would sooner rather than later have followed Cuba into the Neo-Trotskyite WEB set up by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (with the complete, unwavering support and endorsement of the Brazilian Communist Party along with the personal “guidance” of Mr. LuÀƒ­s Carlos Prestes.

      Furthermore, despite the obvious fact that Brazil was not a major country during the early and middle portions of the Twentieth Century (even less significant than today), if the USSR had successfully accomplished in securing BrazilÀ¢€™s entry into the Eastern Bloc during the 1960À¢€™s, the USSR might not have falling, for history would have unfolded so differently (possibly with all of South America turning RED by the mid-1970À¢€™s) thus enhancing Soviet Power and influence in Africa and Asia and automatically rendering North America and its Western-European allies nearly isolated. Possibly in a parallel universe where such events DID take place, planet Earth would most likely have turned into a (mostly) Soviet ProtectorateÀ¢€¦

    • Augustus

      ASP / JOAO – THE BRAZILIAN COUP DÀ¢€™ETAT OF 1964
      The 1964 Brazilian coup d’Àƒ©tat was conducted by the Brazilian military in late March 1964 against President JoÀƒ£o Goulart, who had recently succeed the (allegedly deranged) democratically elected JÀƒ¢nio Quadros (a.k.a. Jango) in 1963. (I seem to recall my Grand Mother several years later explaining that Mr. Goulart had resigned due to À¢€œstrange issuesÀ¢€Â hinting some sort of À¢€œparanormalÀ¢€Â and/or mythological/ritualistic mattersÀ¢€¦ Very strange indeed! LOL)

      The entire ordeal really started in 1963 when Military forces (army/navy/air force) À¢€œpersuadedÀ¢€Â Jango into a compromise, with the congress, where his powers would be reduced through the approval of a constitutional amendment changing Brazil to a parliamentary democracy with Jango as a weakened head of state. Yet, Jango tricked the military by re-instating the presidential system almost immediately thereafter by calling a À¢€œReferendumÀ¢€Â, which he allegedly won (I could not confirm this information).

      The crux of the issue lies in the fact that Jango, in all fairness to the upper-level, rightwing military elements of the time, was undoubtedly a À¢€œclosetÀ¢€Â socialist during the height of the cold war, around the time of the Cuban missile crises. In fact, Jango was politically isolated, in view of his tragic misjudgment (in fact, also a series of contradictory missteps) of conducting a completely independent (and potentially dangerous) foreign policy. Because he openly criticized the Bay of Pigs invasion by the US, while at the same time also (openly) criticizing the Cuban regime of Fidel Castro during the Cuban Missile Crisis, Mr. Quadros appeared misleading to BOTH Washington and Moscow! Such naÀƒ¯vetÀƒ©, during a time when the Bi-Polar Geo-political game was on the brink of another World War, along with the pending Domino theory suggesting that all Latin American countries would fall one after another in case Brazil followed Cuba. In all fairness to the US administration, NATO commanders and Top Brazilian Military of the time I OPENLY concur with this view today (and ever since the time when I was studying this fascinating episode while pursuing my Political Science degree in the United States)

      The coup thrust Brazil into a military dictatorship lasting until the election of Tancredo Neves in 1985

      [b]ADDITIONAL HISTORICAL CONTEXT /// HISTORICAL VIEWS BY VARIOUS EXPERTS AND/OR ACTUAL OBSERVERS[/b]
      [quote]JosÀƒ© Guilherme Merquior, a Brazilian diplomat and sociologist, defined the causes of the 1964 coup as “governmental instability, disintegration of the party system, virtual paralysis of the legislative branch, erroneous attitudes by president Goulart (if not none at all) towards presidential succession; the threat represented by a poorly-planned agrarian reform; military restlessness towards government tolerance to insubordination; and a growing radicalism, by both left and right wings (…) all compounded by high inflation and, naturally, the frightening phantom of the Cuban Revolution.[31]

      According to Celso Castro of the FundaÀƒ§Àƒ£o GetÀƒºlio Vargas, the perception of a communist threat in Brazil became increasingly tangible until it reached its climax with the 1935 Revolt. He cites events contributing to a growing anti-communism in the armed forces, such as: the Russian Revolution of 1917, the foundation of a communist party in Brazil (1922), the conversion to communism of “tenentista” leader LuÀƒ­s Carlos Prestes (1930), and his departure to the Soviet Union; the appearance (March of 1935) of the AlianÀƒ§a Nacional Libertadora, dominated by communists, the sergeants’ revolt (1963), the sailors’ revolt, JÀƒ¢nio Quadros giving a medal to Che Guevara, Goulart’s trip to China, and the reestablishment of diplomatic relations with the Soviet Union by Quadros. These were perceived by the military as being threats to the status quo. [32] Castro further argues that the 1964 coup was supported by some important sectors of society: two conservative parties (PSD and UDN), the business elite, large land owners, the media and the Catholic church, as well as the governors of important states such as Rio de Janeiro, Minas Gerais and SÀƒ£o Paulo.[33]

      According to Senator Jarbas Passarinho, Minister of Labor during the dictatorship, the 1964 coup dÀ‚´etat “avoided the imminent communist threat represented by several world and local manifestations, such as: military insubordination in 1963 in Brasilia, mariners in 1964; Fidel CastroÀ‚´s, Che GuevaraÀ‚´s, China, Soviet Union and Cold War”.[34][/quote]

    • asp

      sorry to you, joao,for my language, augustus does put things much better…
      but, when someone like lloyd, who sounds inteligent and well worded, starts dropping “the empire this”, “the empire that…”, it has all the effect for me of someone laying a nice hot juicy turd in the room…all the good education cant hide the horrible stench of narrow minded ideolodgy that has led unbelivible amounts of people to their death. it brings out the bad words

      and, 22 years of putting up with that philosophy, which also ,by the way , forced me to reseach and grow much more than if i never came to south america , has put up a bs antenna. most americans cant say anything because they have no idea that their government did overthrow democraticly eleceted governments, the hight of hipocracy,but, the story that is missing down here is the whole story. the other side that included the soviet union involvement in brazil , well back into the early thirties, the strange fascination and admiration of fidel castro and his revolution that put a repressive dictator for decades in power in cuba. the actual training in cuba,of various people from south america to lead armed revolutions. the lack of condemnation and fight against farc…

      all sides were dirty in the cold war….i want the truth…i can concemn what the usa did , but, i can also condemn the soviet union and cuba. i can also condemn the people on both sides of the conflict from each little country that invited these large powers in to help them perspectivly .they are equaly responsible….every body was dirty

      but, i apreciete your referance to the past couple of good days down here. i did have one of those marvelous beach days that i am lucky to be near where i live. i swear, ive been to some incredible beaches in the last 6 months on some business trips, and where i live, when the sun does shine……its unbeleivible…..you know , the beach near open shopping ….ive probably seen you there , right ?

    • João da Silva

      Augustus
      [quote]Consequently, Mr. Lloyd cata, presuming you are NOT (yet) thoroughly dismayed and/or have not yet registered my name under your official Ideological Opponents (LOL), time permitting, I would be delighted to indulge you on any additional topic.[/quote]

      A fitting conclusion to your customarily classic analysis of the pathetic situation in our continent which is likely to get darker very soon with or without the help of Marxists, Leninists, Maoists, Trotskyists,etc;, because you eloquently described in your answer to Dr.CataÀ‚´s Query 1. Had your essay been read as a speech in the House of Lords in the British Parliament , you would have received a standing ovation at the end. 😀

      I do not visualize Lloyd automatically classifying you as his “idealogical opponent” as he never during his brief appearances in this site portrayed himself as a supporter of any leftist ideology. I have always found him to bow to logical explanations for he is a truly a well meaning visionary. I hope he finds time to participate further in this intelligent debate before the editors make this article “disappear”.

      I also observe that our fellow blogger ASP has come out in his colorful language ( Probably he is more cheerful now because of a long awaited rainless week end, which we all deserved!) making some very interesting points. I think in a nutshell, he was ratifying our line of thoughts, especially your answer to “Query 1”.

      As for Haiti, Lloyd is correct. Our original mission started well and went haywire after a few months. Though we do not get [i]any[/i] news, from what I know, we were welcome as liberators and now they do not want us there. However, members of our Army Medical Corps did a some good work in rescue work after the hurricane.

      Now it would be interesting to hear from our Guru in Conspiracy theories 😉

    • Augustus

      ASP – BRAVO!!!
      [quote]the hypocracy is suffocating and pathetic. why cant the left come up with some new line of thinking. they need to just f**king jetison the whole “empire”,” impreialistic” hypocracy crap . abandon the whole marxist concept , its a flawed peice of shit, and, come up with something new and real to deal with the problems that face south america and the world[/quote]

      I FULLY SECOND / THIRD & AD INFINITUM (TH) (LOL) ..THE ABOVE

      ENOUGH ALREADY OF MARXIST IDEOLOGY!
      Even tough I must confess that I DEEPLY miss the good old USSR…lol
      THE NEW ISLAMIC ENEMY IS FAR MORE DANGEROUS 😉

      CHEERS

    • asp

      what a croc , lloyd
      your whole premise is taken from some stale soviet union propeganda anti american page, with the snot of fidel all over it

      che gueveira was an imperialist to the core. what is the definition of imperialism ? the dictionary sais the action overt or couvert to detirminr the destiny of a country by another country

      gueveira was using soviet union recources , and, the marxist fidel infra structure to go to africa and try to determine , couvertly ,the destiny of those countries . insulting anyone that wouldnt follow his blood quest for marxist domination…he was as much a fucking imperialist as any american government

      and,besides all this ,having the gauling arrogance to be angry at the soviet union for backing off nuclear war in the cuba missle crisis , this mother fucker thought nuclear destruction of the world was more important than inteligent detaunt. this is one meglomaniac , extremly self aborved with his own image son of a bitch. when the soviet union stopped funding these things, he went to boliva to imperialisticly try to determine their destiny, only to be hunted down like the dog he was and killed

      people like you rail against the “empire” and seem to think this marxist socialism is some kind of alternative (this is not what you are directly saying, but, blaming the “empire ” for all the ills of south america automaticly plays into this direction), when in fact, your historical alternatives to the “empire”,are ridled with some of the major blood baths of the history of the world in their cleansing of the oposition in the name of their ideolodgy. to top it off, the major players from these ideolodgies are turning capatilistic to the core

      people like you just cant look at the major failure of these ideolodgies. all you can do is rail at the “empire” while the failures are swept under the rug not to be acknowledged at all

      so you get polititions in south america winning elections screaming about american imperialism, blaming the cia , kicking american ambasodors out, doing everything except look into the mirror to face the truths and the corruptions that really are plauging the area. never really condeming entities like farc , who are causing a lot of decay and destruction in brazil, but, who spout the same anti american imperialist , anti capatalist, crap they got off the stale soviet union page

      the hypocracy is suffocating and pathetic. why cant the left come up with some new line of thinking. they need to just fucking jetison the whole “empire”,” impreialistic” hypocracy crap . abandon the whole marxist concept , its a flawed peice of shit, and, come up with something new and real to deal with the problems that face south america and the world.

      something to face the corruption and lies and hypocracy. something that can really force multi national corporations to deal with the real needs of the people

      i mean comon, how much longer are people going to keep blaming the cia (or however they perceive what they think is america trying to conquer their perspective countries) at every nook and crany…..pathetic

    • João da Silva

      Lloyd Cata
      [quote]OK….are we to assume that he gets to run again, and does that give Chavez ammunition to run again? [/quote]

      At this point of time, we can assume that with 80% certainty.

    • Augustus

      Query NO.4 (Mr.Lloyd) – CONTINUED /// 4B: VENEZUELA, CUBA and À¢€œThe Disagreeable Bolivarian GangÀ¢€Â // 4C: CHE GUEVARA (and revolutionaries)
      4.B)
      [quote]Is it not true that Brazil has benefitted from the capitalist policies, and the destruction of indigenous peoples from Argentina to Venezuela?[/quote]
      Firstly I must bring to your attention that, as far as I know, unlike all other country in the À¢€œAmericasÀ¢€Â À¢€“ there were little or no Indigenous peoples in Argentina (and Uruguay). Most likely the Vice Roy responsible for administering Argentina for the Castilian Crown may have successfully engaged in a systematic extermination of the great majority of the natives from Argentina (as in Southern/Southeastern Brazil)
      As for THAT country À¢€“ which answers by the name of Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela, I would scarcely expect that Brazil would have had the interest or the means from deriving any À¢€œbenefitÀ¢€Â from any exploitation of the Venezuelan Natives (with the sole possible exception of some recent migration to RORAIMA from members of the very bottom of Brazilian Socio-Economic Strata À¢€“ those À¢€œgarimpeirosÀ¢€Â-a sort of Miner-RangerÀ¢€Â have been responsible for some massacres of a particular sub group of South American natives which inhabit both sides of the porous Brazilian À¢€“ Venezuelan border À¢€“ in essence itÀ¢€™s simply not economically sound and nearly unfeasible to engage into any successful À¢€œexploitationÀ¢€Â of the residents of so remote & inaccessible deep jungleÀ¢€¦

      4.C)
      [quote]Many people, in many countries, know the name of Che Guevara, but how many know that he was a highly respected doctor before embarking on the revolutionary path? How many know how he came to be the foremost revolutionary against colonialism, oppression, and enslavement of Latino peoples? Perhaps only one now; a dying Fidel Castro. How in your schools do they teach of Simon Bolivar? Is he accorded any respect among your so-called intellectuals? [/quote]
      Unfortunately I have no time for commenting on this FASCINATING topic
      Suffice to sayÀ¢€¦.
      Although I give some credit to Che Guevara by providing some À¢€œconsciousnessÀ¢€™ to the Oppressed members of South American Lower classes, I strongly object ANY left-wing and/or religious revolutionariesÀ¢€¦
      I consider Che Guevara (as well as the current Ecuadoran president) as TRAITORS to their social class
      I have ALWAYS despised, condemned, opposed Cuba and its TOTALITARIAN RULER
      (IÀ¢€™m very sorry if my anti-revolutionary standpoint disappoints you.

      Consequently, Mr. Lloyd cata, presuming you are NOT (yet) thoroughly dismayed and/or have not yet registered my name under your official Ideological Opponents (LOL), time permitting, I would be delighted to indulge you on any additional topic.

    • Augustus

      Query NO.4 (Mr.Lloyd): 4.A BOLIVIA – (4B & 4C To follow separately
      4.A
      [quote]For many in Latin America Bolivian history begins with the Bolivarian Revolution. Indeed many in Latin America have their freedom due to this event.[/quote]
      Perhaps by quoting sections of early essays on these topics, which containing my VERY specific views on these INTOLERABLE neo-Revolutionary and nearly terrorist countries, might shed sufficient light for you regarding my views on these countriesÀ¢€¦
      [quote] [b]Inconsistency // Partiality // Error in Judgment
      written by Augustus, September 12, 2008 [/b]The sad truth remain that I’m not at all surprised with the inconsistent Brazilian behavior, vis-ÀƒÂ -vis different behavior in connection with falling governments in neighboring nations; this clearly represents a shameful partiality towards to Left-Wing À¢€œrulerÀ¢€Â of the oppressed Bolivians (the residents of its more civilized Eastern provinces).
      I dare say that such behavior is even more shameful, if one asks me; for the act of supporting any government, particularly one with totalitarian proclivities, lacking full support of the majority of its people represents nothing short of a partial, dishonorable interference in the internal affairs of neighboring statesÀ¢€¦ a very bad judgment call [/quote]
      [quote][b]BOLIVIAN TURMOIL À¢€“ MY VIEWS[/b] Ever since the Bolivian people shocked the world by electing Evo Morales as their leader, PETROBRAS and the Brazilian government have been struggling against the wave of nationalizations and property seizures which significantly impacted existing contracts among various international companies, including Brazilian; thus generating excessive controversy within the Brazilian polity in light of substantial investments by PETROBRAS, while at the same time conveniently forgetting that the previous Brazilian administrations had taken nearly identical steps – decades ago À¢€“ when the famous national slogan À¢€œo petroleo eÀ¢€™ nossoÀ¢€Â was created and publicized (as a clear tool of the Military DictatorshipÀ¢€™s Propaganda). As such, while one may understand international objections to nationalist seizures and disruptions when emanating from Western Countries with standard, traditional free/capitalist economies, one can hardly accept the same type of reaction & objection from Brazil À¢€“ as it represents sheer hypocrisy!
      In connection with the recent developments in Bolivia regarding disruptions in gas supply to Brazil and Argentina, one might at first sight make the presumption that the Bolivian À¢€œrulersÀ¢€Â should manage this issue with due diligence À¢€“ in other words with military coercion À¢€“ against the provincial protesters in Santa Cruz against the very same government Brazil criticized during the nationalization period À¢€“ I dare say, again, that I perceive such inconsistent approach as sheer hypocrisy!
      …………………………………………………………………………
      Because of their inherent weakness and lack of cohesion, since the election of Hugo Morales, the region has fallen indirectly under Venezuelaˢ۪s strong influence (if not control), thus becoming Hugo Chavezˢ۪s main tool to achieve its plan to drive South America towards the dangerous, failed path of Marxism under the modified slogans of Bolivarian Justice.

      Consequently, I would strongly advise the Brazilian people to bite the bullet and lend its FULL support against the rebels of Santa Cruz, whose interests, in the end, would coincide with those of most Brazilians, Argentineans, and even the rest of BoliviaÀ¢€™s immediate neighborsÀ¢€¦ In fact, I would dare say that full independence of Santa Cruz Province from the shackles of an incompetent government (guided by Caracas) is an issue that should not be dismissed! Going further, I will have the courage (and audacity) to question the very viability of a continued À¢€œweak & inconsistentÀ¢€Â Bolivian state, which lacks common identity as well as a common purpose! I truly wonder whether the residents of the region might not be À¢€œbetter servedÀ¢€Â in the event the À¢€œfactious nation of BoliviaÀ¢€Â were to be dismembered and, having its original territory inevitably re-distributed to Chile, Peru, Argentina, Paraguay and Brazil (following a Regional Conference on the Matter to establish full details of Bolivian re-distribution and incorporation)À¢€¦ [/quote]

    • Augustus

      Query NO.3 (Mr.Lloyd): Your comments on Haiti
      [quote]]. If there is one area where he has mis-stepped it is with respect to Haiti. The present involvement of Brazilian troops in Haiti is an abomination, an occupation, and totally consistent with US empirical policy throughout the Third World[/quote]
      Unfortunately, I must confess with great embarrassment that I remain ignorant regarding the relevant details pertaining to Brazilˢ۪s performance in its very first United Nations Military assignment.
      While I would not be surprised to find that the Brazilian Military has proved to be ineffective in Haiti, I was actually under the (apparently incorrect) impression that BrazilÀ¢€™s presence in Hair had been mostly À¢€œpositiveÀ¢€Â, particularly in light of the unusual (and unexpected) favorable historical view which Haitians (used to/ or) tend to have about Brazil and BraziliansÀ¢€¦
      As such, wisdom would dictate that I should refrain from expressing views and conducting analysis on a subject where the À¢€œanalystÀ¢€Â has insufficient data. ( 😉 ). Consequently I must entirely defer to your good self (and to JOAO) on this particular subject matterÀ¢€¦

    • Augustus

      Query NO.2 (Mr.Lloyd): Lulaˢ۪s so-called International Programs / Mercosul / Globalization / Imperialism
      [b]Mr. Lloyd / JOAO [/b]
      [img]Internationally, President Lula has indeed led the emergence of the developing nations in the struggle against globalization and imperial hegemony. While careful not to alienate the capitalist money markets, he has championed fair trade and the growth of Mercosul as a trading entity equal to the US and EU.[/img]
      2.A
      Regarding this particular topic, while I will concur that the À¢€œBrazilian RulerÀ¢€Â appears to have championed some common topics regarding education, HIV-AIDS, poverty, sanitation, along with various economic-development related issues À¢€“ particularly engaging India, South Africa into Economic Forums while attempting to assist and cooperate with Ghana, Angola, Mozambique and a few others, I dare say that the overwhelming majority of these programs represent nothing other than the pursuit of À¢€œgood oldÀ¢€Â National interestsÀ¢€Â outlined under Hidden Agendas. I truly question the underlying sincerity of this À¢€œLulaÀ¢€Â (which name, quite frankly appears better suited to a domestic canineÀ¢€¦
      2.B
      As for your references to Mercosul, a few years ago I counted myself among one of its advocates. Yet, because the economies of the member countries (e.g. Argentina and Brazil) are too fundamentally similar (thus making them competitive), and insufficiently powerful (LET ALONE the absence of a strong currency À¢€“ even with the self delusional discussion of a À¢€œLatin American single currency, ALONG WITH the omnipresent shadows of endemic corruption, suspicion, and opposing Agendas), I cannot foresee a REALISTIC, practical solution for making this idyllic Organization feasible in the long run
      2.C
      As for your comments regarding an alleged À¢€œstruggle against globalization and imperial hegemonyÀ¢€Â, any unrealistic endeavor to conduct a discussion on these topics would unavoidably lead us scampering about the vast swamps of political and philosophical incompatibility, for IÀ¢€™m an unwavering Advocate of an unavoidable Globalist Economy, which ideally would lead Humanity to a Single Economy for Planet Earth. Regarding you clear opposition towards Imperial inclinations, please note that what you appears to consider À¢€œImperialÀ¢€Â lies at the very core of my Political IdeologyÀ¢€¦ If you were to pay a visit to my Blog, you would undoubtedly be dismayed by the very description outlined underneath my Name. It should suffice to explain that I consider myself as À¢€œan avid Admirer of the Glorious Nineteenth Century EmpiresÀ¢€Â and that my blog represents À¢€œa refuge for any and all À¢€˜lost soulsÀ¢€™ who remain longing for the glorious days of the Great European Empires (and/or its minor South American equivalent in Brazil) of the Nineteenth Century À¢€“ the apex of Reason, Science and Western CivilizationÀ¢€¦ I rest my case!

    • Augustus

      Query NO.1 (Mr.Lloyd): LULA & his so-called domestic agenda // views on Endemic Corruption, extreme inequality and Concealed Racism
      [b]Mr. Lloyd / JOAO [/b]
      [quote]I have always expressed admiration for President Lula, although he has tried -IMHO- to chart a middle course in the domestic situation when I would have preferred a bolder approach. For example; he allowed his political cronies to corrupt the Fomme Zero program. He failed to use his ‘presidency’ to stop corruption in his own party. I really believe he wanted to do better on this, and I think later, maybe in his memoirs, he will admit this as one of his regrets [/quote]
      Although I daresay that the Brazilian President (or, using his own unforgivable words À¢€œBrazilian RulerÀ¢€Â) appears to have, to a certain extent well intended objectives for the citizens of his country À¢€“ particularly those belonging to his original Social Stratum; and despite my personal belief that the À¢€œFome ZeroÀ¢€Â program was intrinsically sound, IÀ¢€™m afraid I consider this gentlemen and specially his party (as well as the entire Brazilian political system) so exceedingly corrupt and intolerably cumbersome, that itÀ¢€™s at best unlikely that any such Program (even those few exceptions which can be identified as intrinsically sensible) to be highly unlikely to be effective. In addition, among the highly dishonest Brazilian Polity, you may concede that the Labor Party embodies all negative characteristics one generally expects from Latin American politics: 1) Corruption 2) Corruption 3) Corruption 4) À¢€¦ ad infinitum ALONG WITH an entire separate list: A) Populism B) ignorance C) Self-Delusion D) Injustice E) Regionalism (the domestic version of nationalism) F) NaÀƒ¯vetÀƒ©, and G) A highly unusual, specific and complex culture (popular & political) which, despite its considerable diversity, and its relatively long 500 years of history À¢€“ precludes most of its citizens from perceiving (let along understanding) extremely serious fundamental issues À¢€“ such as Racism based on Centuries of Slavery – which despite its overbearing weight and omnipresence, most Brazilians not only are unable to detect, but consider it non-existent (some may even take offense by the formulation of any question regarding this extremely sad and old Brazilian issueÀ¢€¦)

    • Augustus

      OVERTURE – Answering (some) questions formulated by Mr.Lloyd cata (duly endorsed by JOAO)
      [b]Mr. Lloyd / JOAO[/b]
      Firstly it is Imperative that my first direct correspondence with you should incorporate from the outset my preliminary recognition for your apparently sincere pursuit of knowledge regarding issues impacting Latin America, which in the current (necessary) globalist contest; for most allegedly À¢€œlocalÀ¢€Â issues are nowadays likely to impact not only our entire planet, but possibly also the entire Solar System. Likewise, I must congratulate your valiant effort to express views with a certain detachment, thereby leading me to presume you may genuinely endeavor to be unbiased. Nevertheless, because I consider inescapable for any well intentioned Human Being to fail in any attempt to divorce oneÀ¢€™s expectations, outlook, questions or even passing remarks (of minor consequence) from his/her underlying political ideology, moral convictions and adherence to the various remaining À¢€œancient mythological creedsÀ¢€Â (a.k.a. À¢€œWorld ReligionsÀ¢€Â), I dare anticipate that most of my À¢€œanswersÀ¢€Â to your considerable large rostrum of queries regarding Brazilian domestic and foreign policy appear bound to meet with your disapproval and/or trigger disappointment, discomfort or even dismayÀ¢€¦ Indeed, if one takes into account many of your implied values and subjective remarks À¢€“ along with the very structure you utilized to formulate your questions, I have concluded that our À¢€œWeltanschauumÀ¢€Â, ideologies and Universal Perspectives appear to be in diametrically opposed ends of the Socio-Political & Philosophical spectrumsÀ¢€¦

      Nevertheless, in light of the extensive number of queries you seem to have posted, along with my limited amount of time available at present, I shall endeavor to address some of your inquiries, separately:

    • observer

      Remember his “approval” rating was not always that high, I believe at one point it languished in the 30 percent range as a very large scandal came close to him and he went on TV begging for his political life…Lucky Lula, the Teflon president

    • Lloyd cata

      JoÀƒ£o
      I also look forward to Augustus and DnB comments, especially concerning Brazil action with its neighbors, the situation with Haiti (which I note is not much discussed in the media), and Brazil / Cuba relations

      [b]”he will certainly not admit any regrets, because his record is unblemished”[/b]

      OK….are we to assume that he gets to run again, and does that give Chavez ammunition to run again?

    • João da Silva

      Lloyd Cata
      Thanks, Lloyd, for taking time off to write a thought provoking essay. Although I would like to hear the opinion of other bloggers on your comments, especially of Augustus and DnB, I wish to make a brief observation on the following point you have written.

      [quote]I have always expressed admiration for President Lula, although he has tried -IMHO- to chart a middle course in the domestic
      situation when I would have preferred a bolder approach. For example; he allowed his political cronies to corrupt the Fomme
      Zero program. He failed to use his ‘presidency’ to stop corruption in his own party. I really believe he wanted to do better
      on this, and I think later, maybe in his memoirs, he will admit this as one of his regrets.[/quote]

      Many in my circle of friends and relatives are not disappointed with him, because we knew exactly what was going to happen. You say “he could have done”, but we say ” he never intended doing”. In spite of his “supposed failings” he has 70% over all approval rating among the Brazilians in general and 81% in the North and North East regions of the country. If at all he writes his memoirs, he will certainly not admit any regrets, because his record is unblemished and a large majority approves of all his actions and decisions.

      Thanks again for addressing your comments to me. Time to hear alternative viewpoints.

    • Lloyd cata

      …and I shall leave you for now with this….
      Terror is the child of desperation. Do you not see it in the eyes of the animal backed into a corner with nowhere to turn?
      Understanding is the child of dialogue. Do you not see it in the eyes of children in their quest for a future in peace?
      It is for the present leadership to see that it is a desperation for dialogue which leads to the understanding of terror.
      Otherwise you are left with a dead animal in the corner and a horrible mess to clean up…that is unless the animal succeeds in killing you first!

    • Lloyd cata

      Bolivia
      so we come to the question of Bolivia. No small question in the context of Latin America and the Empirical Agenda. We find
      common roots and analogies with the other nations thrown into the pot of colonisation, slavery, poverty, and despair. For
      many in Latin America Bolivian history begins with the Bolivarian Revolution. Indeed many in Latin America have their
      freedom due to this event. For this defiance the Bolivian people have paid a high price in Blood and tears. Brazils
      complicity and assistance in helping the Empire to accomplish its objectives in Bolivia is without question. Many
      Brazilians did assist the Empire in crushing the Bolivians as well as others throughout the hemisphere. Such is the nature of the present disputes, of long standing, between Brasil and its neighbors. The oligarchs in Brazil still remain entrenched in the economies and societies of its neighbors. Is it not true that Brazil has benefitted from the capitalist policies, and the destruction of indigenous peoples from Argentina to Venezuela? Is it no wonder that these people should want to not only throw off the chains of empirical slavery, but also the hand of those who assisted in their condition? Many people, in many countries, know the name of Che Guevara, but how many know that he was a highly respected doctor before embarking on the revolutionary path? How many know how he came to be the foremost revolutionary against colonialism, oppression, and enslavement of Latino peoples? Perhaps only one now; a dying Fidel Castro. How in your schools do they teach of Simon Bolivar? Is he accorded any respect among your so-called intellectuals?
      Please excuse me, as I have been taught that it is not polite to answer a question with a question. It is only through asking the correct questions that we attempt to solve issues and demand answers. Where there is no insight and therefore no light we cannot begin to decide which direction is best. So in this instance Brazil must answer for its past dealings wit its neighbors before giving argument that it has any right to anything beyond its own borders. Even in clarity of Brazils misdeeds and culpability in the affairs of its neighbors and theit societies, you say, “it was not me! Why should I pay the price?” Is that not what all the capitalists of the Empire say? “Slavery was not my idea. If I benefit it is only through ‘historical context’.” And here is the point of the global dispute, even now, “why should I return that which was stolen and now through my ownership have built into a capitalist economic platform? Did I not follow the rules of capitalist formation with the use of cheap labor and cheaper resources to build an empire of which I and my fellows can be proud and pass on to our heirs? Did I not work hard to build something from my own imagination where before there was nothing of any concern to me or anyone of my position?” And here is the question that trumps all others, “Can the peoples who were forcibly removed from the land on which they prospered for 5,000 years now refute my claim of 100 years or 600 yeats of colonization? “Where is my justice for giving them work when their hands were as empty as their heads?” Fairness is not blameless, so it is no wonder that these people find comfort in the axioms of Bertram Russell, the godless scriptor of human infallability. They cannot reconcile their godless past and present with their future. Only the renunciation of their own conscience will allow them to continue in their avarice, greed, and degradation of others. Continue they must, even in their scientific literature, to designate the true inheritors of the land as too imperfect and too illiterate to handle their own affairs.
      Therefore it is to their own good that we detain, enslave, and thrust them into the ferver of our capitalist ideals. Is it no wonder that the Chinese Communists have now become the envy of capitalists everywhere? Has this argument changed in 600 years? Let’s look once more at the Brazilian occupation of Haiti, llok at its disputes with its neighbors; Argentina, Paraguay, uraguay, Venezuela, etc. Look at the Brazilian “investments” in these areas and tell me they are not modeled after and a direct result of the colonial and capitalistic practices of the Empire. There is no space on the ledger for nationality, ethics, fairness, or God. Until there is, these men will continue to fight for the resources and labor which they did not inherit.

    • Lloyd cata

      Gambling with your future…Look to your past…History is a great teacher, but common sense is best
      JoÀƒ£o
      I have always expressed admiration for President Lula, although he has tried -IMHO- to chart a middle course in the domestic
      situation when I would have preferred a bolder approach. For example; he allowed his political cronies to corrupt the Fomme
      Zero program. He failed to use his ‘presidency’ to stop corruption in his own party. I really believe he wanted to do better
      on this, and I think later, maybe in his memoirs, he will admit this as one of his regrets. Fomme Zero was for me Lulas
      commitment to rebuilding Brazil from the ground up. At least a first step and acknowledgement that in a society with so much
      agricultural wealth hunger was not acceptable. There was much excitement, even in the business community, until it became
      just another political corrupution scheme. I still hope that after his presidency he will return to this ideal much the same
      way that President Carter has done with Habitat for Humanity here in the US and around the world. Unfortunately, we do not
      see the commitment to their ideals when they are in office, and it does not matter what leader, ideology, or country this is
      a clear example that politics is a practice removed from the interests of the people. Imagine what could be done if those
      ideals and commitments could be realized while in the presidency! Lula had an opportunity to break with the past in this
      respect and genuinely join with the private sector in changing the lives of millions of Brasileiros. The private sector was
      certainly ready to help Lula in this effort, but lost interest after seeing Fomme Zero become another corrupt political
      platform. This is as much a ‘crime against humanity’ as any other war crimes. The living death of hunger and disease has
      been increased because Mr. Lula failed to select honest people to run the program and then failed to punish, severely, those
      who corrupted the program. The private sector and business community will still help if asked, but a real enthusuiasm that
      first greeted the program is lost for the present.
      Internationally, President Lula has indeed led the emergence of the developing nations in the struggle against globalization
      and imperial hegemony. While careful not to alienate the capitalist money markets, he has championed fair trade and the
      growth of Mercosul as a trading entity equal to the US and EU. His conservative approach to IMF and World Bank agendas has
      advanced his bid for a seat at the table of international finance and markets. He has not shied away from the responsibility
      of Brazil as the prize and the hope of Latin America. For this reason alone he is indeed the right leader, at the right
      time. Stability has been the focus of his tenure, even at the risk of appearing timid and ineffective, which I have noted
      here many times. Excusable only in light of the challenges and power of those beyond his control. If there is one area where
      he has mis-stepped it is with respect to Haiti. The present involvement of Brazilian troops in Haiti is an abomination, an
      occupation, and totally consistent with US empirical policy throughout the Third World. This is not the first time Brazil
      has allowed itself to be used as an instrument of Empirical designs. As Latin America looks to Brazil for leadership, also
      the nations of the Caribbean look to Brazil for understanding and assistance. As it stands Brazil is simply an occupier and
      enforcer of US and European policy in the region. This is not the first time Brazil has been used in this fashion, which
      brings me to the subject of Bolivia …(to follow – Part II)

    • VinnyCarioca

      Joao
      [quote]Vinny,my dear fellow, it is good to hear from you again.[/quote]
      Hello Joao. I’ve been real busy and admittedly don’t give this forum the time it deserves. I always take a minute here and there to see what the smart people are discussing in relation to my adopted second home and I can’t get enough of the priceless information ch.c provides.
      [quote]My question: Is Obama ready to talk to Raul?[/quote]
      I have no doubt that he is. Will he? Seriously doubt it at this point. One of the things I’m very proud of is the fact that I’m not hearing the vitriol from from my right-wing friends, family members, and business associates, regarding his election, that you heard when Bush was elected and re-elected. Everyone I talk to about it is supportive and truly hopes he does well for us. For President-elect Obama to take that step anytime soon would be detrimental to that sentiment. He said throughout the debates that he would be willing to meet with the president of Iran. But, when he visited Israel last month, the dovish Livni conveyed to him that doing that would project weakness and I believe he recognizes the value of that advice. Just a gut feeling, but, I think liberals will be very disappointed with him.

    • João da Silva

      VinnyCarioca
      [quote]Schwarzenegger was perceived as an outsider who was impervious to the corruptible forces of a state government that would feel very comfortable in Havana.[/quote]

      Vinny,my dear fellow, it is good to hear from you again. With the above statement of yours, you are reinforcing the theory of Dnb about the whole world going socialist under the guidance of the “movers and shakers” who have no loyalties towards any specific country. Arnie Schwarzenegger is (using DnbÀ‚´s favorite term) another “Laranja”.

      As for your statement about the ones feeling “comfortable” in Havana, I got a big kick reading it. Fidel and Raul are all ready to begin talks with your newly elected “Ruler”, though I doubt if Fidel is in a condition to talk. My question: Is Obama ready to talk to Raul?

    • VinnyCarioca

      dutch
      [quote]Why would you think an Austrian/body builder/actor that cannot even pronounce Kalifornia, would have any grasp of economics or the Eisenberg Principal Of Uncertainty for that matter. The surprise was that the electorate saw fit to elect him governor.[/quote]
      Well dutch, you have to understand the situation we Californians were in when the former governor, Gray Davis, was recalled. We were looking at a budget deficit four times what the former governor said it would be. The reason the citizens of California (what is equivalent to the 10th largest economy in the world) elected an Austrian/ body builder/actor/graduate of the Univ. of Wisconsin was because of the lack of confidence in the intelligentsia that occupies the state senate and assembly. Schwarzenegger was perceived as an outsider who was impervious to the corruptible forces of a state government that would feel very comfortable in Havana. Unfortunately he didn’t stay true to the ideals that got him elected and re-elected and we are back to “budget crisis” mode.

    • João da Silva

      Ch.C
      [quote]Funny you did not come back on :
      ” The police suspect 3,000 wagons and 210 locomotives were destroyed and used as raw materials by steelmakers such as Luxembourg-based ArcelorMittal and Dedini SA Acucar e Alcool Ltda., Globo said on its Jornal Nacional evening news show.”[/quote]

      I did not know about is, as I do not watch GloboÀ‚´s Jornal Nacional that often. I get most of the news from printed press. The news broadcast by all the national TV networks during the prime time is extremely boring and biased. As you may know that there is a ferocious battle going on between Globo and Record for audience rating ( and advertisement revenue). Each network goes and does its own”investigative” reporting without giving a chance for the accused to refute the charges.

      So I do not know under what circumstances, these companies bought (or stole) the 3000 wagons and subsequently sent them to the melting furnaces. For all we know, these wagons could have been too old and were sent to the scrap yard from where they bought as scrap metal and recycled it. You must remember reading that the destroyed steel structures of WTC towers were also recycled and there was an accusation that it was deliberately done to destroy any forensic evidence!

      So it is quite possible that soon the case against the two companies would quietly disappear and instead you will see many “Institutional” advertisements placed by them on Globo during soccer matches, car races, etc; 😉

    • dutch

      You cannot make a silk purse from a sow’s ear!
      Why would you think an Austrian/body builder/actor that cannot even pronounce Kalifornia, would have any grasp of economics or the Eisenberg Principal Of Uncertainty for that matter. The surprise was that the electorate saw fit to elect him governor. By the same token the electorate of Brazil saw fit to elect a “common man” President/Ruler of Brazil. Why would anyone expect a silk purse. He is not going to be quoting from the Divine Comedy anytime soon, though he will certainly be passing through.

    • VinnyCarioca

      A Good Analogy
      [quote]According to the president, the country has no reason to despair: “The analysts on duty keep saying that we need to cut expenditures, but you can’t do this in a country where everything still has to be done. The bigger the crisis, the bigger should be the investment.”[/quote]
      Two years ago, here in California, one of the smartest politicians (a state senator) I’ve ever seen told our governor that we are heading for a budget crisis that would cripple the state’s economy. Governor Schwarzenegger told McClintock that he was a “gloomy Gus” and that he (Schwarzenegger) was an “optimist” and that the people did not want to hear bad news. Just a few days ago, the “Governator” said that the State of California could run out of money in two months.
      http://cbs13.com/breakingnews/fiscal.state.emergency.2.877304.html

    • ch.c.

      “reckless spending”. ? No problem !
      Every investment spending in Brazil by mayors or governors has its 10-20 % CORRUPTION TAX…MINIMUM !

      That is why Lula said….keep spending ! He means…..send to the government a request for 2 large schools, HE WILL SIGN for freeing the money. And who cares if only one small school is built with cheap materials ?
      No one….of course !

      Funny you did not come back on :
      ” The police suspect 3,000 wagons and 210 locomotives were destroyed and used as raw materials by steelmakers such as Luxembourg-based ArcelorMittal and Dedini SA Acucar e Alcool Ltda., Globo said on its Jornal Nacional evening news show.”

      Who cares ? No one of course !
      In my view there will be more wagons and locomotives that will disappear shortly : the ones from Cia Vale !
      Dont worry….they will be transformed to build ethanol plants by….. Dedini SA Acucar e Alcool Ltda…and ArcelorMittal owned by your BRIC friend…INDIA !
      😉

    • João da Silva

      Ch.C
      [quote]Lula has been recommending to governors and mayors that they keep on investing[/quote]

      It is a different kind of “investing”, my dear fellow. It is an euphemism for blowing away the tax payers money or bluntly put “reckless spending”. He is still appealing to the Brazilians to keep on spending to keep the economy “G(r)owing”.

      [quote]MY EYE ! [/quote]

      I am glad that you have not learnt bad expression like “Sifu” from our big boss. Instead of “MY EYE”, I would have said “MY ARSE”. 😉

      Cheers. 😉

    • ch.c.

      Lula has been recommending to governors and mayors that they keep on investing
      WITH WHAT MONEY ?????? SMILES
      With the brazilian banks lending rates…by far far far far far the World Highest ?
      Has Lula Not complained about the financial crisis in the developed world ?
      Or does Lula means….what they stole through corruption…..must go and be invested….in Miami or New York Banks ?????

      When money leaves the country…..it does not mean necessarily from foreigners ! It is just the overall flow of money from foreigners & locals !

      Ohhhhh about things that “mysteriously” disappear in Brazil, here is a good one, may be you know it already :
      “TV Globo reported that BrazilÀ¢€™s biggest railroad operator and other companies are under investigation for misappropriation of government-owned rail wagons and locomotives. The police suspect 3,000 wagons and 210 locomotives were destroyed and used as raw materials by steelmakers such as Luxembourg-based ArcelorMittal and Dedini SA Acucar e Alcool Ltda., Globo said on its Jornal Nacional evening news show. The transactions took place in the past two years, according to the report. ALL didnÀ¢€™t return messages left “

      Guess now with what some of your ethanol plants are built with ?????

      AND OF COURSE THE SCAM LASTED 2 YEARS…WITHOUT APPARENTLY ANYONE KNOWING….OF COURSE !!!!
      Like if 3,000 wagons and 210 locomotives were destroyed and used as raw materials by steelmakers…could disappear like magic !!!!
      Who bets that no one will ever go in jail for more than a few weeks…at worst ?
      Normal….in Brazil ! Isnt it ?

      MY EYE !
      LAUGH….LAUGH….LAUGH….LAUGH….LAUGH !!!!!

      Ask Don Quichote at the Planalto Palacio.

    • dutch

      Perhaps Sancho Panza.

    • ch.c.

      We need to learn from the mistakes of others and be calm in the storm
      HOPEFULLY NO ONE ON EARTH WILL LEARN MISTAKES FROM BRAZILIAN TODAY FACTS !

      – The World Highest Interests rate after inflation….but still providing a weak currency !
      – One of the World Highest Crime Rate !
      – Ranked 125th out of 180 or so in the ranking…DOING BUSINESS !
      – 5 % PAVED ROADS…ONE OF THE WORLD LOWEST…despite Brazil is not a poor country but ranked as low middle income !
      – Vote buying scandals…end up in PARDON from Senators as much guilty as the ones they pardoned….in a secret vote….of course !
      – Needed 30 years to finally beat its truck production record ! 1977 – 2007
      – Deaths squads abound…with TOTAL impunity….of course
      – Took off 4 times 3 zeroes out if its currency in around 70 years. A World Record !
      – 400 % AVERAGE annual inflation rate over 5 or 6 decades ! Beaten only by….ZIMBABWE…..but I am not even sure !

      And what about if Brazil would COPY the success of others ?????????

    • dutch

      Gentleman? How could he be. He is no Harvard or Columbia graduate, he was not president of the Harvard Law Review. Lula is what he is, struting and swearing representing Brazil. He is from where he comes. He brings with him all his taste, perception, intellection. He is Brazil’s president; he represents Brazil; he is a symbol of Brazil, the height of Brazilian intellection, the height of Brazilian savoir faire. Is there no Brazilian Barak Obama? In this land of racial equality, where is the black man with such erudition, such class, such intellectual grace. For that matter what is the Brazilian equivalent of Harvard or Columbia. How can you produce such gentlemen if the institutions of learning do not exist; if the institutions of culture do not exist? Well Obama smokes in secret, perhaps he is vulgar in speech as well, perhaps he is merely a field hand, pretending to be the President of Harvard Law Review, perhaps he is a field hand, a house nigger pretending to be the President of the Unived States, I think not.

    • Joa

      Lula is following the Bush path. Spend spend spend. the problem is, IF, the crisis does hit Brazil how will we pay for it? We need to learn from the mistakes of others and be calm in the storm. As the lady before put it. we need to save for the rainy day. It could be coming. Bill Clinton left Bush a good economy, Bush told the patient f*Ck You…

    • ch.c.

      I hope ObamaÀ‚´s language is as colorful as LulaÀ‚´s.
      If you pay close attention to Lula thousands statements….you could as well say this was Chavez !
      And it could be quite dangerous !

      Joao
      You see how right I was yesterday about my warning on Large Banks/Brokers investments recommendations.
      Here are 2 for today, right the opposite, and quite bullish for Brazil !

      1) Morgan Stanley Says Emerging-Market Stocks May Jump 60% in 2009 (FUNNY isnt it from the Same Firm ?)
      http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=aOoRjmZlUlrw&refer=latin_america

      2) Brazilˢ۪s Bovespa May Rise to 66,500 by End-2009, Itau Says (who copied who ? Рsmile)
      http://bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=aUWXVQ8GXj.4&refer=latin_america

      😀 😉 😀 😉 😀 😉

    • João da Silva

      dnbaiacu
      [quote]Some Brazilians went back home a little to soon it appears. They should have waited until the dollar is completely trashed. But I guess if you don’t have a job in the U.S what good is that to you at this moment?[/quote]

      Many couldn’t have waited, because they were deported. It is very sad for those who paid for the “Coyotes” few thousand dollars to be smuggled into the U.S., when the exchange rate was over 3 Reais/$ and had to come back with few dollars in their pockets and exchange them for R$1.70, without any perspective of finding jobs here. I guess they can be called “Collateral Damage” in the “Melt Down”.

      Some years ago, I met an old American lady in your city and she remembered vividly, the consequences of the “Great Depression” in U.S. and the needs to “save for the rainy days”. Unfortunately the “Rulers” nor the people do not remember history or do not want to.

      The news coming out here about the jobs is not too encouraging either. BUT….BUT…., our president is just like the doctor he described. He is not going to tell the Brazilians that they are”Sifu”. 😀

      BTW, after his declarations, his popularity ratings went up to 70% all over the country and in the Northeast and North to 81%. Great isn’t ? Fortunately we have a leader who can guide us through these turbulent times. 8)

    • João da Silva

      Forrest
      [quote]joao
      after first of year will be going to REUNION ISLAND[/quote]

      Will Fatima be joining you for X-mas and New Year or you intend flying to PB or Rio?

    • Augustus

      JOAO
      Obama has WAY too much class to use this type of “colorful language”
      There are limits to what gentlemen can say – IN PUBLIC (in private it’s a whole separate issue) 8)

    • forrest allen brown

      we should he gets hit by a blade off the windmill
      sone of lula memememememememeIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

      he mUst be the smarest person on the planet according to himself

      will be glad to get fatima back to boat as i dont like to laugh alone .

      like lula likst drinking alaone and looking through the bottom of his glass

      think of grateness of himself.

      joao
      after first of year will be going to REUNION ISLAND

    • João da Silva

      Augustus
      [quote]”Imagine if one of you were a doctor and had to see a sick patient. What would you tell him. Look, comrade, you have a problem, but medicine has already advanced a lot, science has already advanced a lot, we’re going to give you some medicine, you are going to get well again? Or you would say: F–k you? Would you say that to a patient of yours? You wouldn’t,” he observed, getting a few embarrassed laughs in return.[/quote]

      To refresh your Portuguese, it is “Sifu”. 😉 This is the exact term used in his speech. 😉

      I hope ObamaÀ‚´s language is as colorful as LulaÀ‚´s. 😉

    • Augustus

      CH-C – CORRECT AGAIN
      [quote]You cheated and manipulated ! Now is the time to pay the bills ! [/quote]
      Under these circumstances, I can use my favorite brazilian expression (often used by my family members when trying to admonish me)
      NOW LULA IS GOING TO SEE “WHAT IS GOOD FOR COUGH”… 😀

    • ch.c.

      Lula Ridicules Free Market and Sees Self as Don Quixote Amid Cassandras ????
      Then developed nations should charge as much import taxes to Brazil, as Brazil charges import taxes from developed nations exports !!!!

      FINALLY….I CAN APPLAUDE LULA VIEWS AND OPINIONS

      And about “”When the market had the belly ache, which was an unbearable diarrhea, who they called to save it? The State that they decried for 20 years. That’s why the market needs oversight and regulation,” affirmed Lula. ” …what did Lula ?
      Well he banned the exports of rice. Some emerging nations did the same. Others emerging nations banned wheat exports.
      And the bimbo Fernandez wanted to raise the EXPORT prices on soyabeans.

      With what goal in mind ?
      Simple : to corner the market a lot more on the UPSIDE !!!!!!

      Filthy players….have always lost at their own tricky games and rules !

      Proven ONE MORE TIME !

      What follows a bubble is always a burst !
      Emerging nations commodities exporters are going to feel the pinch a lot more than they won during the bubble phase !

      I have no idea of whast next for commodities, but even if they stay at a trading band from actual prices for a while, it would be devastating for the commodities exporters countries !

      You cheated and manipulated ! Now is the time to pay the bills !

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