Comments for In the Globalization Going on in LatAm, Brazil Is Last in Line at http://brazzil.com , comment 1 to 94 out of 20 comments http://brazzil.com Sun, 22 Nov 2009 05:38:10 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/173-november-2006/9746.html#comment-19647 Se vai ficar por aqui é melhor dar uma olhada nesses últimos artigos e ver o tipo de propaganda anti-brasileira que é feita. O administrador do site sabe disso e não faz nada. São mensagens de racistas e pessoas nem um pouco interessadas em discutir saudavelmente qualquer coisa, apenas ofenderão e destruirão quem puderem. - A brazilian Tue, 26 Dec 2006 13:46:18 +0100 http://brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/173-november-2006/9746.html#comment-19640 Ou seja, "eesitee" - Ric Tue, 26 Dec 2006 12:27:27 +0100 http://brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/173-november-2006/9746.html#comment-19639 Brasileiros, falamos somente o Tupi-Guaraní e deixemos tanto o português como tambem o inglês, especialmente palavras estrangeiras como "site". - Ric Tue, 26 Dec 2006 12:25:56 +0100 http://brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/173-november-2006/9746.html#comment-19294 Brasileiros, falemos somente o português e deixemos esses gringos se virarem com tradutores pela rede mundial, se assim quiserem. Assim podemos conversar livremente e comentar as asnices aqui escritas por eles. Esse site não pode ser sério ao permitir coisas como bem exemplificados nesses comentários. Isso não é apenas ofensivo de uma forma inocente, mas sim proposital. O intuito desse site é denegrir a imagem do Brasil e de seu povo, portanto gastar tempo e saliva argumentando é inútil. Escrevamos somente o português para que outros brasileiros não se iludam ao visitar o site, e deixemo-los na escuridão de sua própria ignorância. - A brazilian Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:31:28 +0100 http://brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/173-november-2006/9746.html#comment-19186 Actually it would be better if Brasil would exercise some independence and start by throwing out the NGO parasites which exist principally (after linging their pockets) to do the bidding and provide mettle for the US and other English speaking countries. Thanks to the lack of 'globalization' Brasil is not in the rush that the US and sadly to say Europe is to being the head's of huge gulags in the name of 'rule of law' as came out today. The 'beacon of freedom' leads the world in imprisoning it's own citizens. That is not to say that Brasil does not bow to the pseudo-moralist nonsense as demonstrated by the Sao Paolo fashion show banning teenage model's so as to follow Milan and Spain's leftist moralist interloping (or as recently demonstrated in the London travel mart's 'vitality of middle age fashion show's) to ban everything that individuals have naturally drifted to fot thousand's of years (or is it a bunch of frustrated middleage yaps that wish to see everyonhe else miserable in the name of what is 'good' fo them). Time to put globalization back where it belongs, back in the beltway and in that cesspool in Brussel's and allow the world some room to breathe from all these prohibitions. I will cheerfully take my chances with less 'enlightenment'! - Steve1 Sun, 10 Dec 2006 14:53:21 +0100 http://brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/173-november-2006/9746.html#comment-19117 [quote]Ah, please, let's not get back to that again... read back my posts, ok? That has already been answered. Who do you think you are fooling? [/quote] The story about immitating like the Japan did? What exactly will they be immitating by producing simple software? They aren't producing cheap computer parts. [quote]No, I don't think differently. As well as the western europeans, germans etc. That's what the world do all the time. They are always looking for cheaper products, cheaper technologies and also cheaper workers. And the workers are always looking for higher salaries. The balance of those factors is what determines the prices in the market and moves people towards making the economy growth. Isn't it funny that the countries where that happens have the best salaries and the lowest prices for products? One exception to this rule is Brazil: there are lots of people, like you, who voluntarily want to pay more for products and services and voluntarily want to receive less for their work. Very funny. [/quote] You are out of the topic again. How does that justifies Brazil to become some source of cheap labor? Who wins with that? Brazil? Do you the situation in here will improve with that? Do you think that competing in price with cheap labor countries such as India will give anyone a future? You mixed a lot of things in there, you are just stubborn, you don't want to admit you are wrong. [quote]You like to say you proved this and proved that. I wonder, if you have proved something, you would need to repeat yourself over and over.[/quote] I repeat myself because you keep changing the subject and repeating things. [quote]A fact. A fact is that the countries where people have most access to technology in their daily lives create the best products and techies and make more money on them. Examples? Plenty of them: the US, Western Europe, Japan, South Korea, etc. [/quote] Do you have any idea of what you are talking about? What data do you have that brazilians have less access to technology? What relationship a consumer market have with the ability of producing technology? How universities and education affects it? [b]Learners can get what they need in order to learn and produce technology[/b]. [quote]I thought you didn't see the point in bringing external websites so that readers could check the real prices. You are contradicting yourself. [/quote] ?? [quote]Again, you said you proved it. But I sent two links of laptops costing more than R$ 10.000,00 and one is a PC, and they are nothing special, nothing that wold cost more than US$ 1,500 in the US.[/quote] [b]SO WHAT!? THOSE WERE TWO MODELS!!? DOES IT MEAN THAT ALL LAPTOPS COST THAT!? ARE YOU STUPID?[/b] Until when will you repeat this flawed reasoning? [quote]. You only got to prove that you are a liar and misinformer. And no, low-profile notebooks costing between R$ 2.000,00 and R$ 3.000,00 (the kind that was median in the US 2 years ago) are not affordable. In a country where the average income of a family is about R$ 900/month, working 2 to 4 months in order to buy a low profile laptop is not an option. Middle class has access to 2 or 3 years old technology and the poor have none.[/quote] People can buy things in 12x or 24x in here. A lower income family, with R$ 900 could buy a very cheap (outdated) computer and pay it in many times. A salesman, as in your example, would be able to buy a laptop without a problem paying on cash. [quote]Yes, I worked in IT industry in Brazil. No, my first salary as a junior was about R$ 1.500 (not much different of the values today, as I see). And my last salary there was higher than your claimed R$ 4.000,00 to R$ 5.000,00/month. Contrary to what you say, I say I was an exception. By that time I thought it was big [/quote] So that probably was a [b]very long[/b] time ago because the values are below the practiced in here. Was it in 1995? Right when the Real was established? - A brazilian Fri, 08 Dec 2006 14:12:02 +0100 http://brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/173-november-2006/9746.html#comment-19110 [quote]Exporting software or exporting cheap labor? There's a huge difference in export software when you are Microsoft and sell your products worldwide or when you are the owner of a sweatshop.[/quote] Ah, please, let's not get back to that again... read back my posts, ok? That has already been answered. Who do you think you are fooling? [quote]The dream of american corporations is that the rest of the world is formed by outsourcing consultancies, so they can pick those who charge less. Competing on price only doesn't give you a future. Am I lying? Do you think differently?[/quote] No, I don't think differently. As well as the western europeans, germans etc. That's what the world do all the time. They are always looking for cheaper products, cheaper technologies and also cheaper workers. And the workers are always looking for higher salaries. The balance of those factors is what determines the prices in the market and moves people towards making the economy growth. Isn't it funny that the countries where that happens have the best salaries and the lowest prices for products? One exception to this rule is Brazil: there are lots of people, like you, who voluntarily want to pay more for products and services and voluntarily want to receive less for their work. Very funny. [quote]Not sure if you noticed, but the topic was about people not being able to buy parts so they can learn and produce technology. I proved you can find cheap parts to be used for learning purposes.[/quote] You like to say you proved this and proved that. I wonder, if you have proved something, you would need to repeat yourself over and over. Also, you worry too much about focusing the discussion on your crazy subjects, and don't allow any correlations that prove you wrong to come to talk. Again, let's not get back to this. That has already been answered and you didn't show your arguments. Again, who do you think you fool? [quote]People don't need the very latest in order to learn and that's a fact. All your examples are of "the very latest" of everything, and I disagree. Programming, for example, is about concepts and you can learn them in a very outdated computer.[/quote] A fact. A fact is that the countries where people have most access to technology in their daily lives create the best products and techies and make more money on them. Examples? Plenty of them: the US, Western Europe, Japan, South Korea, etc. [quote]You said I was a misinformer. Now you are contradicting yourself. [/quote] I thought you didn't see the point in bringing external websites so that readers could check the real prices. You are contradicting yourself. [quote]This has nothing to do with is being discussed. You are in some sort of little war of your own to make point out of pure stubborness. What comparing prices have to do with the discussion you started yourself? It was proved over and over again that it was wrong. Of course there will be things more expensive, like Apple products, some types cars that aren't produced here, so what? Among the many false statements you made in here it's a fact that the brazilians IT workers make at least 2x the value you said and computers don't cost R$ 10000 as anyone can check out in those links you passed. [/quote] Again, you said you proved it. But I sent two links of laptops costing more than R$ 10.000,00 and one is a PC, and they are nothing special, nothing that wold cost more than US$ 1,500 in the US. I'm not the one who's selling those laptops for that price, it's brazilian shops. You only got to prove that you are a liar and misinformer. And no, low-profile notebooks costing between R$ 2.000,00 and R$ 3.000,00 (the kind that was median in the US 2 years ago) are not affordable. In a country where the average income of a family is about R$ 900/month, working 2 to 4 months in order to buy a low profile laptop is not an option. Middle class has access to 2 or 3 years old technology and the poor have none. That's not the same situation as in the US, and not even as in South Korea. [quote]End of story, you are some immigrant that subjected yourself to some indignant situation and now want to make it look like it was worth it. That's the only explanation to such bashing to your own country, spreading lies and misconceptions. The salary of IT workers you cited only shows you never worked in IT in Brazil before, completely out of the reality.[/quote] At the beginning that was funny, but now it's getting boring. You simply make too many assumptions about me. Yes, I worked in IT industry in Brazil. No, my first salary as a junior was about R$ 1.500 (not much different of the values today, as I see). And my last salary there was higher than your claimed R$ 4.000,00 to R$ 5.000,00/month. Contrary to what you say, I say I was an exception. By that time I thought it was big hehehe - Brazilian expat Fri, 08 Dec 2006 13:21:51 +0100 http://brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/173-november-2006/9746.html#comment-19102 I will only answer you if you explain us the logic you used to get to that conclusion. We are waiting and we are all ears . - A brazilian Fri, 08 Dec 2006 08:57:58 +0100 http://brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/173-november-2006/9746.html#comment-19092 If you are that incredible rarity, a Brazilian programmer who can actually follow a functional specification and produce code that works reliably, do you need a job? I would be willing to pay a huge premium for such a rare skill! - me Fri, 08 Dec 2006 00:55:26 +0100 http://brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/173-november-2006/9746.html#comment-19088 [quote]They don't you stupid. But they are making tens of billions of dollars every year just exporting software. Any stats will point you that. I didn't create them. [/quote] Exporting software or exporting cheap labor? There's a huge difference in export software when you are Microsoft and sell your products worldwide or when you are the owner of a sweatshop. What kinds of applications do they make? Simple of high technology? What are they copying from the americans, since you implied it by your example of Japan? What are they learning with it? What's so difficult in simple applications any person can make? The dream of american corporations is that the rest of the world is formed by outsourcing consultancies, so they can pick those who charge less. Competing on price only doesn't give you a future. Am I lying? Do you think differently? [quote]It's not misinforming. I myself gave them the links. Liar, don't put words in my mouth.[/quote] You said I was a misinformer. Now you are contradicting yourself. [quote]Hahahah, you just proved that you are an idiot that would buy a video board without knowing its specs[/quote] Not sure if you noticed, but the topic was about people not being able to buy parts so they can learn and produce technology. I proved you can find cheap parts to be used for learning purposes. I don't think all american faculties and schools have only the top of the top of computers, even there there might be outdated ones. You are crazy. This is extremely boring, you don't want to admit that you are wrong. [quote]Of course I cannot afford them. I'm not rich. ... That's my point.[/quote] People don't need the very latest in order to learn [b]and that's a fact[/b]. All your examples are of "the very latest" of everything, and I disagree. Programming, for example, is about concepts and you can learn them in a very outdated computer. You are wrong and you don't want to admit it. [quote]ONE ISOLATED CASE? Moron, all of the cases shown here are overpriced. Including the links you sent. You may fool brazilians with your cheap talking but not europeans or americans. Get over with it. I would point more cases: [/quote] This has nothing to do with is being discussed. You are in some sort of little war of your own to make point out of pure stubborness. What comparing prices have to do with the discussion you started yourself? It was proved over and over again that it was wrong. Of course there will be things more expensive, like Apple products, some types cars that aren't produced here, so what? Among the many false statements you made in here it's a fact that the [b]brazilians IT workers make at least 2x the value you said and computers don't cost R$ 10000[/b] as anyone can check out in those links you passed. Conclusion: a student can get what it needs in order to study and learn. [quote]Your defense of Brazil is pathetic. You just make us all look like fools or liars. On my turn, I defend most things that happen in the US. Not all. And I cite the stupid billions of dollars spent to keep those inefficient farmers here as a nonsense that shouldn't be followed. In either case, the poor people are the ones who lose the most, as poor americans have their cost of living boosted higher and poor brazilians don't have access to technology. [/quote] I am not defending brazil, I am just clearing up some lies of yours. I think I have corrected them. Anyone reading this thread will have a better idea of what it is like in here. And brazilians, middle class and above, [b]do have access to technology[/b] and that was proven. End of story, you are some immigrant that subjected yourself to some indignant situation and now want to make it look like it was worth it. That's the only explanation to such bashing to your own country, spreading lies and misconceptions. The salary of IT workers you cited only shows you never worked in IT in Brazil before, completely out of the reality. - A brazilian Thu, 07 Dec 2006 22:09:44 +0100 http://brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/173-november-2006/9746.html#comment-19086 [quote]If they believe India is drawning in dollars and everyone is getting rich then they didn't travel enough.[/quote] They don't you stupid. But they are making tens of billions of dollars every year just exporting software. Any stats will point you that. I didn't create them. [quote]How directing people to Dell's website and telling about average salary in Sao Paulo for IT workers is misinforming? [/quote] It's not misinforming. I myself gave them the links. Liar, don't put words in my mouth. [quote]You said absurd things like the salary being 1300 and computers costing over 10000. I proved you both are incorrect. I proved you a starter can get a new video board by 200. I proved you a lower income family can get a computer for less than 1000.[/quote] Hahahah, you just proved that you are an idiot that would buy a video board without knowing its specs. [quote]And there are cars costing more than a million dollars, can you afford it? Wow, you must be poor then!! smilies/smiley.gif I ask for the last time WHAT'S YOUR POINT?[/quote] Of course I cannot afford them. I'm not rich. But even living as an average middle class american I own a car that would cost me R$ 300.000,00 in Brazil. Poor americans drive cars that would cost R$ 100.000,00 in Brazil. Teenagers buy those Motorola Razor cell phones around here, while just execs use them in Brazil (they didn't grow up, I guess). People can afford the latest technology very easily, and technology is cheap around here. That makes it possible for them to keep the pace to look for better jobs constantly and makes it possible for managers and entepreneurs to grasp on better uses of a technology, or better products, just because they are in direct contact with them. Isn't it funny that the most rich country on earth, that is also growing at 4% to 5% per year rates can be like that even importing everything from everywhere in the world and selling everything at a low price? That's my point. And no, if taxes are reduced to american levels in Brazil, brazilians won't buy as much as americans. But that would be a start, as more people could afford computers and cars, making their lives better. Or Brazil could start by reducing taxes on imports for machinery to be used in businesses, like the chinese and indians do. Brazil do neither... and will lose the race... quite simply. [quote]You seem to point out ONE ISOLATED case of overpriced stuff and use it as a "proof". I repeat, want to see affordable PCs, check out Dell's site. And they aren't even the cheapest.[/quote] ONE ISOLATED CASE? Moron, all of the cases shown here are overpriced. Including the links you sent. You may fool brazilians with your cheap talking but not europeans or americans. Get over with it. I would point more cases: http://www.americanas.com.br http://www.submarino.com.br http://www.chevrolet.com.br and many more... any foreigner will see that cars and hardware are way too expensive in Brazil. [quote]I have the money to afford decent PCs and furniture, I don't need the government to give me anything. [/quote] How the government let that happen!? A guy like you, who defend that people can't have access to cheaper products because they don't need it (in your opinion, of course), should not be allowed to purchase something you don't need. I will try to talk to my friends in the government to correct that situation. I'm sure you don't need more than a 10-year old computer and a wooden bench to work, and that your salary is so high that you could pay more taxes. Your defense of Brazil is pathetic. You just make us all look like fools or liars. On my turn, I defend most things that happen in the US. Not all. And I cite the stupid billions of dollars spent to keep those inefficient farmers here as a nonsense that shouldn't be followed. In either case, the poor people are the ones who lose the most, as poor americans have their cost of living boosted higher and poor brazilians don't have access to technology. - Brazilian expat Thu, 07 Dec 2006 21:42:41 +0100 http://brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/173-november-2006/9746.html#comment-19073 The study is faulty. The index is rated on incomings and outgoings of a nation as per people and economics. It mentions FTA's. That indicates that any country can have large movements of these catagories with even just one other county and it is designated as gloablised. This risks identifying regionalism with globalism. Disclaier: I haven't read the actual study/report. - Christo-F Thu, 07 Dec 2006 14:40:48 +0100 http://brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/173-november-2006/9746.html#comment-19072 As Americans flee the cities for the suburbs, many are failing to leave poverty behind. The suburban poor outnumbered their inner-city counterparts for the first time last year, with more than 12 million suburban residents living in poverty, according to a study of the nation's 100 largest metropolitan areas released Thursday. "Economies are regional now," said Alan Berube, who co-wrote the report for the Brookings Institution, a Washington think tank. "Where you see increases in city poverty, in almost every metropolitan area, you also see increases in suburban poverty." Nationally, the poverty rate leveled off last year at 12.6 percent after increasing every year since the decade began. It was a period when the country went through a recession and an uneven recovery that is still sputtering in parts of the Northeast and Midwest. "Looking back at the 1970s, you would have seen cities suffering and suburbs staying the same," said Berube, research director at the Brookings Institution's Metropolitan Policy Program. "But the story is different today." Berube said several factors are contributing to an increase in suburban poverty: _Suburbs are adding people much faster than cities, making it inevitable that the number of poor people living in suburbs would eventually surpass those living in cities. _The poverty rate in large cities (18.8 percent) is still higher than it is in the suburbs (9.4 percent). But the overall number of people living in poverty is higher in the suburbs in part because of population growth. _America's suburbs are becoming more diverse, racially and economically. "There's poverty really everywhere in metropolitan areas because there are low-wage jobs everywhere," Berube said. _Recent immigrants are increasingly bypassing cities and moving directly to suburbs, especially in the South and West. Those immigrants, on average, have lower incomes than people born in the United States. Berube and research analyst Elizabeth Kneebone studied poverty figures for the 100 largest metropolitan areas, measuring changes from 1999 to 2005, the most recent data available. In 1999, the number of poor people living in cities and suburbs was roughly even, at about 10.3 million apiece, according to the report. Last year, the suburban poor outnumbered their urban counterparts by about 1.2 million. The federal government defined the poverty level as $15,577 for a family of three in 2005. "Traditionally, cities have been viewed as home to poor populations, surrounded by middle- and upper-income suburbs," the report said. "This 'tipping' of poor populations to the suburbs represents a signal development that upends historical notions about who lives in cities and suburbs." Marc H. Morial, president and CEO of the National Urban League, said many of the same social and economic problems that have plagued cities for years are now affecting suburbs: struggling schools, rising crime and low-paying jobs. "I call it the urbanization of the suburbs," Morial said. "I hope this says to people that the way to confront poverty is not to wall it off and concentrate it," Morial said. "You really need policies to eliminate it." Cleveland was the city with the highest poverty rate last year, at 32.4 percent, while San Jose had the lowest, at 9.7 percent. Suburban McAllen, Texas, at the southern tip of the state, was the suburb with the highest poverty rate last year, at 43.9 percent, while suburban Des Moines, Iowa, had the lowest, at 3.7 percent. - Tanaka Thu, 07 Dec 2006 14:16:33 +0100 http://brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/173-november-2006/9746.html#comment-19071 [quote]Ad hominem. Stereotype. Most of those people have traveled to more than 10 different countries... fortunately they don't do as you do, otherwise they would think every japanese is a kamikaze and every brazilian is a liar and a cheater by your comments... [/quote] If they believe India is drawning in dollars and everyone is getting rich then they didn't travel enough. :) Remember this topic started because you used India as an example and I proved to you that outsourcing is nothing more than cheap labor. Technology is where the money is and India is not there. [quote]You certainly don't care, as well as most brazilians. But I care, and I have brazilian friends who care. And you haven't proved anything. Just that you are a liar and a misinformer.[/quote] How directing people to Dell's website and telling about average salary in Sao Paulo for IT workers is misinforming? [quote]Are you afraid of it? Well, you said the prices were affordable in Brazil. You said there weren't laptops for more than R$ 10.000,00 for sale in there. You said there are good video boards for as low as R$ 200. Well, let's bring the prices then, let's bring the sources, let the readers know what we are talking [/quote] I already did it. You seem to point out ONE ISOLATED case of overpriced stuff and use it as a "proof". I repeat, want to see affordable PCs, check out Dell's site. And they aren't even the cheapest. [quote]Not perfect for someone wanting to learn Autocad to compete in the global market however. As I said, there are several different people with several different professions in the world. And just because both you or me or anyone else are not able to grasp what one and every person in their individual [/quote] It's good enough for learning purposes. For all tasks, not just programming. Get over it. [quote]And again, if the government is to decide what kind of environment one needs to learn programming... well, it should give you a 10-year old Pentium 166 with 64MB of RAM and Windows 98, as well as a wooden bench for you. You don't need more than that to learn programming anyway... [/quote] I have the money to afford decent PCs and furniture, I don't need the government to give me anything. [quote]Readers, take a look here: http://www.dell.com.br. It's easy to navigate in the site even if you don't know portuguese. Divide the price by 2.2 and you'll have the price in dollars. [/quote] 1 - Such prices are affordable; 2 - You can a PC for less than a 1000; 3 - What's your point again? You said absurd things like the salary being 1300 and computers costing over 10000. I proved you both are incorrect. I proved you a starter can get a new video board by 200. I proved you a lower income family can get a computer for less than 1000. Give up, man. [quote]Again, you are misinformed. There are PCs costing more than R$ 10.000,00 as well.[/quote] And there are cars costing more than a million dollars, can you afford it? Wow, you must be poor then!! :) I ask for the last time [b]WHAT'S YOUR POINT?[/b] - A brazilian Thu, 07 Dec 2006 13:03:47 +0100 http://brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/173-november-2006/9746.html#comment-19068 [quote]WHO CARES? What's your point!? Weren't you saying that people has no access to technology. I proved you were wrong! End of story.[/quote] You certainly don't care, as well as most brazilians. But I care, and I have brazilian friends who care. And you haven't proved anything. Just that you are a liar and a misinformer. [quote]Give up! Now you will try to compare prices on computer parts? What for? [/quote] Are you afraid of it? Well, you said the prices were affordable in Brazil. You said there weren't laptops for more than R$ 10.000,00 for sale in there. You said there are good video boards for as low as R$ 200. Well, let's bring the prices then, let's bring the sources, let the readers know what we are talking about. Thanks for bringing it, it makes it even easier for me to indicate them that the huge average salary that you are talking about is also a lie... it's very funny. You say the prices are lower and salaries are higher than they actually are in Brazil... while you actually learn less and pay more for your things :lol: Afterall, if that doesn't make sense, why did you bring prices of computer parts here anyway? You could have just dropped it... [quote]So what!? For someone that's learning, an aspiring programmer, it's PERFECT. It supports the latest versions of the graphical APIs used in the industry!! [/quote] Not perfect for someone wanting to learn Autocad to compete in the global market however. As I said, there are several different people with several different professions in the world. And just because both you or me or anyone else are not able to grasp what one and every person in their individual professions need, we cannot say what's necessary or not. And again, if the government is to decide what kind of environment one needs to learn programming... well, it should give you a 10-year old Pentium 166 with 64MB of RAM and Windows 98, as well as a wooden bench for you. You don't need more than that to learn programming anyway... [quote]Anyone interested in knowing "how much" a PC or notebook costs please check out the brazilian Dell website. You will find lots different prices and models in there. Remembering that Dell is higher price than other lesser known brands, so assume you can find even cheaper in other places of Brazil.[/quote] Those models were already old in the US and Europe 1 1/2 year ago. The ones that were not cost more than US$ 2,000. Quite good for such a poor country... Readers, take a look here: http://www.dell.com.br. It's easy to navigate in the site even if you don't know portuguese. Divide the price by 2.2 and you'll have the price in dollars. [quote]Apple sucks and Brazil is 100% PC because of their price. I ask you again, what's your point? Your completely lost it, you don't even know what you are talking about anymore. [/quote] Again, you are misinformed. There are PCs costing more than R$ 10.000,00 as well. Take a look: http://www.fnac.com.br/Product.aspx?idProduct=0000046819598&idDept=7113&src= - Brazilian expat Thu, 07 Dec 2006 11:51:02 +0100 http://brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/173-november-2006/9746.html#comment-19067 Hey, what about arguing instead of just insulting me? Can't you show some decent arguments without attacking me? Let me put some things clear to you here: no, I'm not illegal. Don't assume things about me, don't be pathetic. I work in software industry, not cleaning toilets. I simply love this country, despite the fact that there are democrats and Michigan people like e harmony or Michael Moore trying to ruin it. That's the real danger. There are also other problems, like the high taxes on food imports, but contrary to you, I'm not passionate to defend them just because they are something peculiar to the country that I love. However, there is something here that you won't ever understand: if everything else goes bad, if everything fails, I can go clean toilets and make a decent living, comparable to upper middle class in Brazil. I have the chance to buy things in order to learn new skills and get a better job, always. That would be simply impossible in Brazil. In Brazil, however, one has a chance of working to the government via 'Concurso Público'. That's a fairly safe job which you won't find in the United States. However, that implies that one will be poor for the rest of his life. Decent, but poor. And today a public job is not that safe, as the government is not hiring 'estatutários' anymore. That means a government trying to cut costs can fire workers very easily, without the need for all those 'sindicâncias'. Let's talk about India and China. Both are not good models. India restricts economical freedom a lot, and China restricts both freedom of speech and economic freedom. Both have very high import taxes, and as such, keep their people even more far away from the best technology. Still, they offer some incentives for companies that want to produce technology there, and that shy, tiny incentive renders them billions. Brazil don't even do that. India and China may not be the winners in the long run, but Brazil certainly are in the losers' side. Outsourcing is just one side of this game. But make no mistake, US and european companies outsourced a lot of jobs to Japan in the 1950s and 1960s, in order to produce electronic components. American automakers outsourced some assembly lines to Japan in the 1950s, particularly those to produce Jeeps for the Korean war. Go read about Ohnism, ok? [quote]Hahaha, yes, they must really know Brazil and all about the world. Aren't americans famous for their profound knowledge in geography and world history?[/quote] Ad hominem. Stereotype. Most of those people have traveled to more than 10 different countries... fortunately they don't do as you do, otherwise they would think every japanese is a kamikaze and every brazilian is a liar and a cheater by your comments... - Brazilian expat Thu, 07 Dec 2006 11:49:49 +0100 http://brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/173-november-2006/9746.html#comment-19065 [quote]How do you think a brazilian trained monkey will have an idea of making a better cell phone, or GPS, or whatever, when he doesn't even know what's that? [/quote] The same way americans trained monkeys do. Tell me, did you clean too many toilets in there? I think you are all upset because I showed you a reality of Brazil that you were excluded from. So, did you cross the border illegaly to flip burgers and clean toilets? And now you are trying to convince yourself that being someone else's carpet is better than anything else in Brazil? Hahahaha. - A brazilian Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:52:56 +0100 http://brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/173-november-2006/9746.html#comment-19064 [quote]As you started it, let me tell you, I just showed this thread to some american friends and they are astounded by how idiot you can be.[/quote] Hahaha, yes, they must really know Brazil and all about the world. Aren't americans famous for their profound knowledge in geography and world history? [quote]Listen, dumbhead, the japanese did just like India and China are doing right now. They copied everything. They made things cheaper and at inferior quality in the beginning.[/quote] Did I say otherwise? Japan managed to surpass the US in many areas and that's it. They didn't start some outsourcing business as you were implying that "is needed". I will only believe India has a future of technology producer and influencer when I see Indian companies around selling their stuff. You know, products not cheap labor. [quote]Didn't you say top laptops? How much would be a laptop with 2GB of RAM in Brazil and a GeForce 7600? [/quote] [b]WHO CARES?[/b] What's your point!? Weren't you saying that people has no access to technology. [b]I proved you were wrong![/b] End of story. Give up! Now you will try to compare prices on computer parts? What for? [quote]Do you know how much is a crappy GeForce 7300LE (the cheapest and least powerful of all GeForce 7 models) [/quote] So what!? [b]For someone that's learning, an aspiring programmer, it's PERFECT[/b]. It supports the latest versions of the graphical APIs used in the industry!! "Brazilian Expat" you are a loser. You probably went to the US to make little money, subjecting yourself to crappy jobs in order to survive (at least in the beginning), and now you are trying to justify to your conscience that you did the right thing because Brazil "it's so much worse". You tried to paint things here in bad color, I proved you are wrong. Anyone interested in knowing "how much" a PC or notebook costs please check out the brazilian Dell website. You will find lots different prices and models in there. Remembering that Dell is higher price than other lesser known brands, so assume you can find even cheaper in other places of Brazil. Brazilian Expat, so is Dell a liar too? [quote]'A brazilian', did you mean that not even Apple notebooks cost as much as R$ 10.000,00? What about this splendid Macbook for R$ 11.759,00 (US$ 5,345.00)? [/quote] Apple sucks and Brazil is 100% PC because of their price. [b]I ask you again, what's your point?[/b] Your completely lost it, you don't even know what you are talking about anymore. Apple has such a small market share that I don't think we are losing anything. - A brazilian Thu, 07 Dec 2006 10:47:07 +0100 http://brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/173-november-2006/9746.html#comment-19061 This idea of Brazilian govern to distribuit $100 real lap tops is a bad idea becuase people from slum that do not know English are landing here. - Tanaka Thu, 07 Dec 2006 06:10:09 +0100 http://brazzil.com/home-mainmenu-1/173-november-2006/9746.html#comment-19056 [quote]You may or may not be Brazilian, but my intuition tells me you're not.[/quote] hauheuaheuehu, isso é muito divertido! Tua intuição tá errada, velhinho... ó aqui pra vc ó: _|_. E a minha? Tá certa? Você é do Michigan, certo? Só não sei ainda se Detroit ou Flint, nessas cidades tá cheio de burro com titica na cachola mesmo... parecem todos teus clones, pensam igualzinho a você... É melhor aprender a amar este país, não há nada melhor que ele na Terra... acostume-se com isso (e antes que esse bando de ignorante que tenho vergonha de chamar de compatriota venha falar alguma merda (pra usar um termo bem alemão), é claro que o "este país" de que falei... não é o Brasil... hehehehe) - Brazilian expat Wed, 06 Dec 2006 23:50:45 +0100