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Brazil's New Middle Class Hasn't Shrunk the Inequality Gap PDF Print E-mail
2008 - November 2008
Written by Katie Dickson   
Monday, 08 December 2008 20:28

A Brazilian favelaThe past two decades have witnessed a series of political and economic rollercoaster rides all over Latin America. However, with economic "stability" being used as a tagline for positive growth and suitable political fervor, a novel way of life has been emerging that is affecting millions of citizens who now consider themselves members of a new middle class. 

This "Great Global Middle Class" has been illuminated perhaps more brightly in Latin America than anywhere else, due to its longstanding and hard-fought struggle with income inequality and socially repressive regimes.

Brazil, pointed to as a showcase for both its economic boom and the vast inequality that still persists in parts of the country, has become the new face of this emerging middle class. For the first time, many of the region's poorer citizens have made the inter-class transition and are now able to buy high-ticket consumer goods such as televisions, DVD players, motor vehicles, and personal computers.

Never in their wildest dreams did these disfavored Brazilians, wedged in the hapless trenches of urban favelas, believe that they could imagine themselves as part of the middle class.

As Rogério Schmitt, a political consultant at Tendências Consultoria in São Paulo, noted in an interview with the BBC, "Brazilian society has always been a frozen society. People who were born poor, die poor. People who were born middle-class, will die middle-class. That's beginning to change and this is probably one of the biggest social transformations that we have had in Brazil since the end of slavery in the 19th Century."

Many economists agree that Latin America is indeed heading in a positive financial direction, but this trend is not the only development catching the eye of the international community. The rise of "new leftist" leaders, such as the strong-willed, if not somewhat eccentric, Hugo Chávez of Venezuela and the embattled indigenous spokesman Evo Morales of Bolivia, not only can be found preaching their ideas of social democracy, but also putting it into action in the form of constitutional amendments incorporating key social programs.

However, when analyzing these changes to the hemispheric landscape, one key question that arises is: What started this trend? Was it the economic boom that led to the expansion of the pre-existing middle class, or did leftist leaders successfully spread the Bolivarian ideology and commit themselves to energizing the poorer regions of Latin America through the medium of a new, more socially minded middle class?

Conceivably, if the answer is known, a more rapid pace of growth and development in the region could be made possible, and through a combined opening of society, the future of Latin America would no longer be left completely up to chance.

Throughout the 20th century, volatile commodity markets and bouts of high inflation have plagued Latin American economies. As a result, external debt owed to developed nations - much of it to the U.S. - began to mount, averaging almost 50% of the region's GDP in 1980.

At this point, the need for a debt management initiative came to be seen as imperative to the future stability of the region. Most of Latin America by now has abandoned Import Substitution Industrialization (ISI)-based economic policies and has become more open and export-oriented, relentlessly following the neo-liberal strategies recommended by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank, which in the end tended to leave the region more vulnerable to economic shock than ever.

Some would argue that Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) has also played a major role in helping the region create formidable export industries and solid financial institutions. For example, in the report Foreign Investment in Latin America and the Caribbean (2004) prepared by José Luis Machinea, Executive Secretary of the Economic Commission for Latin America and the Caribbean (ECLAC), FDI in Latin America and the Caribbean rose 44% in 2004 to reach US$ 56.4 billion.

This was the first year that FDI in the region had positively risen since 1999. Now, seven years after the turn of the century, the economic outlook for Latin America continues to impress investors around the world. "Foreign direct investment will go back to the highest levels seen in the 1970s," predicts Citibank Brazil President José Monforte, and it will gravitate toward telecommunications, energy, automotives and durable goods.

A Boost in Consumerism

The former president of Brazil, Fernando Henrique Cardoso, has pointed out that this new middle class is very different from the one Latin America experienced in the 1940s and 1970s, in that it is more dependent on the market than on the state. His assumption seems to be that this is a good thing, but why?

The tide is rising for nearly all economic sectors in the region, particularly those which are resource-based, and as a result, these seemingly meager increases in personal income are resonating, but with Latin Americans dwelling at the bottom of the economic ladder.

The Brazilian government, for example, raised the minimum wage again in April, this time by 7%. This allowed monthly earnings to increase from US$ 193 to US$ 207. This extra income is supposed to help the population to begin planning for the future, rather than just living exhaustive day-to-day lives; it also enhances their ability to purchase small luxury items that before they could never even dream of owning.

A 2005 study conducted by the Fernand Braudel Institute surveyed four favelas in the city of São Paulo and found that all of the households contained color televisions, one-half owned cell phones, and almost 30% had a functioning automobile.

More Brazilians have started to take out mortgages thanks to the relatively low interest rates that resulted from a new generation of public financial institutions, which strive to maintain low levels of inflation through fiscal mechanisms.

Increasing air-travel - growing at approximately 6.6% annually (second only to China) - is another indicator of the economic growth being witnessed throughout the region.

Boeing reports that Latin America is now being seen as an attractive growth area for the aviation industry because of the long distances between major cities in the region, poor existing ground transportation links and a sizeable boost in the number of prospective people able to afford air fares.

The conclusion that Latin America, as a whole, is heading in a optimistic economic direction has little cause to be disputed. But, has overall economic growth done enough to, in turn, shrink the large existing income gap, and show the vast number of people living in poverty that a price must be paid to forge their own path toward prosperity?

Income Inequality

Unfortunately, the direct answer to the above queries, for the most part, is no.

As IMF Managing Director Rodrigo de Rato notes, despite recent successes in macroeconomic management, such as the transformation of the financial credit sectors (in terms of their ability to sustain external economic shocks), as well as the impressive gains from rising commodity prices, the income inequality gap in a number of Latin American countries has either failed to improve, or done so almost imperceptibly.

The IMF 2007 October World Economic Outlook, entitled "Globalization and Inequality," offers some newly available data on income and consumption, showing that inequality - as measured, for example, by the widely used Gini coefficient - has risen over the past two decades in most regions, such as in developing Asia, developed Europe, and certainly in Latin America.

However, despite this observed rise in relative inequality, per capita incomes have grown across virtually all regions and for all segments of the population, including the poorest. The Economist reported that between 2000 and 2005, the number of households with an annual income of US$ 5,900 - US$ 22,000 grew from 14.5 million to 22.3 million just in Mexico and Brazil alone.

In addition, Spain's Banco Santander estimates that 15 million people throughout Latin America have moved into the blossoming middle class between 2002 and 2006. As a result, the poor are now better off in absolute terms, although in most cases incomes have risen at a relatively faster pace for those who are already wealthy.

Recently the international community has discovered an evolving trend that may have helped spur the formation of a new middle class, which is occurring throughout Latin America: the rise of several leftist political movements which have now taken office and are beginning to promulgate an avowed system of democratic socialism.

Consolidation

Along with a wide variety of economic difficulties which took place at the tail end of the 20th century, corrupt elections, military coups and U.S.-sponsored or tolerated dictators time and again seemed to overpower any solid prospect for democratic stability. Unless recalcitrant regimes wanted to run the risk of economic blockades and CIA assassination attempts, it was either "Washington's way or the highway."

However, much of the deepening of democracy being witnessed today was made possible due to the fact that for the first time since the end of the Cold War, Washington no longer has been able to prevent left-leaning leaders from coming to power, mostly in part because its attention has been occupied elsewhere, primarily in Iraq and Afghanistan.

In the meantime, the governments of Venezuela, Costa Rica, Argentina, Uruguay and Bolivia have all declared that they will no longer send students to the School of the Americas (now named the Western Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation) - the infamous police and military training center in Fort Benning, Georgia, where many of the region's most notorious killers learned the latest in "counterterrorism" techniques, and soon directed them, at least in the past, against campesinos in El Salvador and auto workers in Argentina.

Several theories have attempted to respond to the question of why democracy - as championed by the U.S. and other developed states -  has failed, in any number of instances, to become an ingrained part of Latin American society. Some see it as a matter of chronic inherited economic disadvantages burdening a given regional nation, while others claim that the lack of political and social stability in the region originates purely from an unfair distribution of wealth and resources, leading to a disengaged civil society.

However, as Guillermo O'Donnell and Eric Selbin have hypothesized, it may actually be a combination of both. They assert that a deficiency in economic and social development as well as a belief in democratic practices seems to be keeping Latin America from fully institutionalizing or consolidating such desiderata.

The lack of an abiding confidence in democracy itself is a common problem among many citizens in the region, who have witnessed a cyclical pattern of failed regimes and resurrected successors throughout the past century. The 2006 AmericasBarometer, conducted by the Latin American Public Opinion Project (LAPOP), surveyed the health of democratic processes throughout the Western Hemisphere. The following are some of the most salient results pertaining to democratic consolidation:

A strong indicator of the prospects for democratic stability in a given country is citizens' belief in the legitimacy of their governments and their willingness to respect the right to political opposition.

By that standard, the highest scoring countries (on a 0-100 scale) are Canada (68), the United States (64), Costa Rica (50), Uruguay (46) and Mexico (41). At the low end are Nicaragua (25), Haiti (24), Paraguay (20), Bolivia (20) and Ecuador (12).


Economic conditions play a strong role in determining how much Latin Americans trust their political systems. Respondents who believe that their personal economic situation is poor or that the national economy is performing poorly express far less trust in their political system than those who see their personal and/or national economy as performing well.

A Shift to the Left

The push for a more authentic democracy in Latin America has not gone unnoticed; rather, it has spurred a new form of political governance which, although it may not follow a North American or European ideal, has gained some popularity among a number of nations.

Since the 1998 election of Hugo Chávez as president, there has been a dramatic rise in the discussion of the suitability of democratic socialism as one of the region's political systems of choice. In launching the Bolivarian Revolution, with its goal of redistributing wealth and improving living standards for his nation as well as the region, Hugo Chávez has become an irrepressible presence in the region and the world, for better or worse.

In 2005, Bolivians, in electing Evo Morales as their nation's first indigenous president, chose a leader who also professed that he too was a "democratic socialist" and a close ally of Venezuela. Morales ran for office on an agenda focused on the nationalization of oil and natural gas industries.

Shortly after taking office, he issued a decree nationalizing Bolivia's hydrocarbon resources. In Nicaragua, the Sandinistas made an electoral comeback in 2006, when for a second time their leader, Daniel Ortega, was elected president of Nicaragua.

In the same general period, Ecuador, Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina have also seen the election of center-left governments that, while not exactly filling the same pair of shoes, nor being inherently socialist in nature, are relatively supportive of Hugo Chávez and are willing to distance themselves from Washington to one degree or another.

Popularity of Democratic Socialism

An encouraging product coming from the limited spread of democratic socialist theory and practice in the region is the targeted social programs that deal directly with the problem of poverty. These began to be seen during the 1990s with Mexico's Progresa, a program that gave small stipends straight to the poor on the condition that parents agree to send their children to school.

Under the name Oportunidades, the program was vastly expanded under President Vicente Fox after 2000, to cover the whole of Mexico. This approach was copied and amplified by Brazil in its Bolsa Família program, which now reaches one in four Brazilian families.

The kind of democratic socialist elements expressed above usually go hand in hand with an established participatory system, which aims to bring more direct representation to its citizens. Unlike in the U.S., where legislators are elected as representatives of the populace, participatory democracy, or "direct democracy," is supposed to give ordinary citizens a larger, more personal voice in the decision-making process.

If successful, this may leave the door open for a more energized civil society - something that, as mentioned before, is normally necessary for democratic consolidation. It is easy to see why this form of government is so readily accepted among many Latin Americans, even though "socialism" as an ideology, more often than not, possesses an attached negative connotation.

In addition, democratic socialism's positive qualities closely resemble those of populism, which also aims to bring improved living standards and some sense of common connection to the citizen base.

Populism, in its modern incarnation, has played an important role in the political history of Latin America, dating back to the 1930s, if not before. It is commonly identified with charismatic leaders such as Juan Domingo Perón, former president of Argentina, the late Prime Minister Maurice Bishop of Grenada, and today with Hugo Chávez.

However, the more recent pattern that has emerged in Latin American populism has been socialist in context, and appeals to the bulk of the poor by promising redistributive social policies and state control of the nation's energy resources, as seen in the case of Venezuela and Bolivia.

Nevertheless, populism in Latin America has been criticized by the international financial establishments for the irresponsible fiscal policies of many of its leaders, but, on the other hand, has also been defended for having allowed historically weak states to maximize their cohesion and present a solid front against their would-be enemies and to use their assets to achieve social order through moderate policies of mobilization and modernization.

During periods of relative hopelessness, strong-willed populists at least kept alive the vision of what the poor might one day attain, but many still wonder how long it will take for their resources to run dry before they are allowed to benefit from them.

Implications for the Future

Regardless of a persistent income inequality gap, the consensus among many Latin Americans is that life is getting better, and for those who may not have yet experienced such benefits, a change in attitude towards the future has made all the difference in terms of political legitimacy.

Believing in their role (seen with the indigenous in Bolivia and Ecuador) as agents of change and makers of their own destiny is something not to be minimized. Although this newly enfranchised middle class may not look the same as it does in developed countries, those who belong to it will certainly be happy to experience reliable electricity and waste disposal, or to buy digital music players for their grandchildren, for example.

This process is bringing an entirely different dynamic to the local and national political scene. A middle class that breaks away from its traditional definition of being self-absorbed, to be replaced by being partial to a just society that features material equality is important not only for economic productivity, but for establishing humane relations.

Since many people in the middle class in fact consider themselves to be members of the "working class," many of them also make up a large percentage of the voting population. It is this element of the electorate which is providing the impact for the creation of left-leaning parties.

Now, either through increased civil society participation - as fostered by democratic socialism - or by means of economic freedom, citizens have the ability to hold their government and its officials more accountable than in the past.

Likewise, the emergence of a middle class in Latin America has the potential to accelerate some aspects of state reform, while improving the rule of law, which is perhaps the most important factor now underway and is one area in which progress is measurable.

Institutionalized political corruption has infected the region for decades. At the end of 2006, for example, a fifth of the members in the Brazilian Congress were under investigation for malfeasance (which didn't stop them from voting to raise their salaries by 91% for the next Congress).

However one must take note that democracy, which may seem to offer a quick fix, is in itself an ongoing process that is still at doubt and it may take years, if not decades, for it to be fully consolidated in Latin America.

Conclusion

Democratic socialism, although not an American archetype, must be seen as a contending form of democratic expression that is now taking the stage in Latin America, and will surely develop as the middle class grows and demands more of the same social programs and services which political leaders of the poor routinely call for.

Now, it is up to these new leftist leaders to prove to their home constituencies as well as to the world that their policies are more than just a popular quick fix or a self-serving platform for re-election.

Moreover, it is the responsibility of the Latin American electorate to hold government officials accountable for their actions, and to continue to build solid institutions so that the fragile, if not failed, democracies from the past do not come back to haunt them.

Economic progress in the past decade has helped give the region a sense of legitimacy as well as extra funds for the improvement of the social sector, which allows for some of the benefits generally associated with the middle class to become more widely available.

As for the question of what came first, the emerging middle class or democratic socialism, the actual answer would appear to be less relevant than the assurances offered by all sides, that this cycle can be counted on to produce an improved society as well as a welcomed increase in exercisable democratic options and economic prospects.

Analysis prepared by COHA Research Associate Katie Dickson. This article was first published in December 2007. The Council on Hemispheric Affairs (COHA) - www.coha.org - is a think tank established in 1975 to discuss and promote inter-American relationship. Email: coha@coha.org.



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Comments (19)Add Comment
Manipulation of Income Levels does warrant flaunting “Showcases” of an “advancing” Middle Class
written by Augustus, December 09, 2008
The following "propaganda" is both highly amusing and disagreeable:
This "Great Global Middle Class" has been illuminated perhaps more brightly in Latin America than anywhere else, due to its longstanding and hard-fought struggle with income inequality and socially repressive regimes. Brazil, pointed to as a showcase for both its economic boom and the vast inequality that still persists in parts of the country, has become the new face of this emerging middle class
It is seems nearly shameful the persistence of the Labor Administration in underestimating the intelligence of critics/observers within and outside Brazil by its continued self-delusional and self-promotional claims of a glorious advance of the idyllic middle class. As already mentioned during a previous editorial which originally made this unbelievable claim, the sheer adjustment of figures (now lower) designed to indicate the “magic number” when groups reach the Middle Class will never represent the actual success one should realistically strive to attain… Clearly such unsophisticated methodology seems to be designed for a multi-purpose bragging by populist, uneducated president in order to achieve two important goals: one domestic and the other international.

Domestically, the (puppy-like named) President is likely to follow the example of his horrific, insufferable Venezuelan associate by toying with a possible constitutional amendment designed to allow Brazilian Presidents a third run for the presidency (a rather fashionable current trend in the region). Internationally the egocentric low-class “ruler” may intend to be portrayed as a champion of the valiant battle against poverty; thus utilizing this fallacy as yet another argument for increased recognition within the United Nations (always striving for that permanent seat) as well as among the G7 members (possibly to attain a dream of appearing more “patrician” – as if “Pernambuco” could be ever be seen as the Loire or Rhine Valleys)
Another View of the Future
written by Ric, December 09, 2008
What I see for the future is a descent into anarchy, as the financial crisis deepens.

We have seen France, Greece, and the other places we hear about. Then there are places like Paragominas with thousands on a rampage that most never hear about. All those poor people watching the idle rich with their novella lifestyles on TV are going to be really upset. In most of the world there is neither the morality of the people nor the will and strength of the authorities to prevent riots, looting, revenge and chaos.

But that's just my opinion, and I'm often wrong. Maybe "Democratic Socialism" will save the day. Maybe it won't, maybe it's just a euphanism for failed policies of the past previously known by other terms, like the Artist Formerly Known as Prince.
...
written by asp, December 09, 2008
"The rise of "new leftist" leaders, such as the strong-willed, if not somewhat eccentric, Hugo Chávez of Venezuela and the embattled indigenous spokesman Evo Morales of Bolivia, not only can be found preaching their ideas of social democracy, but also putting it into action in the form of constitutional amendments incorporating key social programs.

Since the 1998 election of Hugo Chávez as president, there has been a dramatic rise in the discussion of the suitability of democratic socialism as one of the region's political systems of choice. In launching the Bolivarian Revolution, with its goal of redistributing wealth and improving living standards for his nation as well as the region, Hugo Chávez has become an irrepressible presence in the region and the world, for better or worse.

In 2005, Bolivians, in electing Evo Morales as their nation's first indigenous president, chose a leader who also professed that he too was a "democratic socialist" and a close ally of Venezuela. Morales ran for office on an agenda focused on the nationalization of oil and natural gas industries.

Shortly after taking office, he issued a decree nationalizing Bolivia's hydrocarbon resources. In Nicaragua, the Sandinistas made an electoral comeback in 2006, when for a second time their leader, Daniel Ortega, was elected president of Nicaragua. "

excuse me, but, where is the information that chavez supports farc, brutily cracks down on the oposition, closes tv and radio stations ?

where is the information that crime is up in caracas, and, there are empty food shelfs in supermarkets ala cuba

where is the information that chaves , morales and correa blame the cia at every turn, kick out usa ambassodors, and, correa let a luxury camp for farc officials exist in equadors borders with visits from international students romanticising scum and drug dealers ?

are they really helping the people ? has anyone here seen that documentary about old beautiful bolivian indian women getting in a long line to get socialist cards , and , were then sent out into the street to be ordered to remove gigantic boulders with out gloves that even my back would give out rapidly ?is this good for the people ? i woudnt wish that on any ones mother...

i have nothing against social democracy.i really want capitilism with a concience. does anyone , after what has happened to the world economy, endorce the greed is good policies that lead us to the econimic mess we are in now ?

but, there is a differance from social democratic leaders and leaders who are getting playbook signals from fidel, who spout the stale soviet union anti american propaganda pages with fidels snot all over it. who use anti imperialism rhetoric to get elected.blame the cia at every turn...

the american government didnt just stop leftist leaders. they were trying to meet the soviet union at every turn in the globe at that time of the cold war. when the soviet union colapsed , they just didnt care what happened. of course they tried to influence business, hell, even china is trying to influence business in south america, even iran , for gosh sakes, but, many times we saw south america say a strong no to alcra , and, exert its own will to its destiny.

there are things in this report that are flawed






are now able to buy high-ticket consumer goods such as televisions, DVD players, motor vehicles, and personal computers.
written by ch.c., December 09, 2008
Ohhh yesssss....and paying over 50 % interests rates, the World Highest !
Be proud !

And for income of these "apparent middle class" since most stats are made in US$, guess what the average will be by year end for the 2008 stats. DOWN AROUND 30 % OR SO FROM 2007 !

Better yet :
The official average income as per IBGE is 1200 Brl...per month. Or US$ 500.- these days.
But this average is taken ONLY in the 6 metropolitans most wealthy regions, excluding all the others regions.
Still better :
These Brl 1200.- monthly average is only for registered workers. It also happens that ONLY 40 % of the workers are registered, the other 60 % are NOT registered and earning on average a lot less than the registered workers. And that these 60 % NON registered workers generate around 40 % of the national GDP as per official estimates !

Conclusion : yesss there is wealth in Brazil, owned by a small minority. But even the teachers and policemen are POORLY paid pitting them barely at the middle income level. And they are also the ones WHO CANT AFFORD PAYING CASH for a cheap DVD, TV set, home appliances, home furniture etc etc. Meaning their only recourse is paying these 50 % interests rate on whatever they purchase.
Even the police corruption INCOME is not enough for a decent and acceptable life with dignity !
Therefore what do they do ? More corruption and red tape income !

And if in Brazil you no longer have corrupted elections, you still have VOTE BUYING PRACTICES ! Short memory ? It is of course all done
with CASH coming from Caïxas 3,4 or 4 !! And from where these Caîxas purses are filled with cash remains a COUNTRY SECRET...OF COURSE !
Hmmmmmm.

And knowing that Brazil is nearly the World Worst on income inequality, one can only come out and say that the majority are earning MUCH less than the average Brl 1200.- income, good only for 6 metropolitan regions and only for the 40 % registered workers.

FACTS :
the majority of Brazilians WORKERS, registered ot not, earns less than 900.- Brl NATIONWIDE per month...usually for a family of 3, 4 or 5 !
Or US$ 360.- for 3,4 or 5 family members...using actual exchange rate !
And if the wife also works, then one may add US$ 100.- to 200.- for the whole family !
And the living costs in Brazil are NOT CHEAP AT ALL...EVEN BEFORE BUYING GOODS ON MONTHLY INSTALLEMENTS MAKING THEM VERY EXPENSIVE DUE TO INTERESTS RATES CHARGED !

The I-Pods and I-Phone prices in Brazil are the World Most Expensive...if paid CASH ! Just think about the real price if paid in installements !!!!!!
Whoooaaaaa ! Whoooffffff ! A whole month of GROSS salary for the majority low income workers if paid cash and far more if paid in installments !

Hip...hip Lula, hip...hip Lulaa, hip...hip Lulaaa !
...
written by João da Silva, December 09, 2008
Dear Augustus,Ric, ASP & Ch.C,

The entire thing is in a f**king mess as my neighbor "ASP" would say in his impeccably colorful English. smilies/cheesy.gif

But that's just my opinion, and I'm often wrong. Maybe "Democratic Socialism" will save the day.


Ric, you are not wrong all that often and please stop being too modest. And do you really think that f**king "Democratic Socialism" will save the day ? BTW, what the f**k is this "Democratic Socialism"? A kind of new disease?

are now able to buy high-ticket consumer goods such as televisions, DVD players, motor vehicles, and personal computers.


That was about 3 months ago. It is no longer valid, Mon Ami.

Domestically, the (puppy-like named) President is likely to follow the example of his horrific, insufferable Venezuelan associate by toying with a possible constitutional amendment designed to allow Brazilian Presidents a third run for the presidency (a rather fashionable current trend in the region). Internationally the egocentric low-class “ruler” may intend to be portrayed as a champion of the valiant battle against poverty; thus utilizing this fallacy as yet another argument for increased recognition within the United Nations (always striving for that permanent seat) as well as among the G7 members (possibly to attain a dream of appearing more “patrician” – as if “Pernambuco” could be ever be seen as the Loire or Rhine Valleys)


Spoken like a true Opposition Leader, Milord. I think it may ultimately fall on your large shoulders to negotiate for a permanent seat for us in U.N. as you are located closer to its HQ. smilies/wink.gif

Ya all will forgive me for using too many f**king colorful words to describe my f**king inner feelings. Too much influence by our dear f**king neighbor. smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/cool.gif
To asp !
written by ch.c., December 10, 2008
You are dead right and I applaude your comments !

If you pay closer attention, even to what you wrote, one "detail" comes out : the new leftists leaders ALL COME FROM SOUTH AND CENTER AMERICA ONLY !!!!
None from Africa, Asia or the Middle East !

The only main difference I have with you is with the "new" leftists...because looking at South and Center America history, these "new" are in fact Noooo different in their thinkings, theories, policies, visions, cheatings, lying and hidings than the "older" leftists, except that these days they have been elected by their population !

POPULISM has a great success time and again but only in South And Center America....ONLY !
And when do they succeed the most ? during times of high basic commodities prices...since money is there to finance their POPULISM theories.
And when do they succeed the least ? At the wake up call...when basic commodities prices are low. Numbers become numbers...they can no longer lie about...TOO MUCH !

The sad reality is also that Nooooo South & Center America bull markets periods were due to the country government leaders, BUT ALWAYS...due to EXTERNAL DEMANDS ONLY !

Have things changed ? All latinos pretend yessss...this time is different... it is sustainable. Their problems is that they said the same, time and again, during all their previous bull markets !
Just to be proven wrong by the reality that followed !

Just think about it !

Stupid question to all : HAVE THINGS CHANGED THIS TIME FUNDAMENTALLY ?
I bet that all the latinos will say YESSS !!!!

Let me tell you a stupid thing : wars are always different from another war, but they remain wars ! Right ?
So do I think for South and Center America, things are different for every economic cycles but the results will always be ENDING IN FAILURES FOR YOUR REGIONS....IN VIEW OF YOUR MENTALITY OF NOT RECOGNIZING THE FUNDAMENTAL WEAKNESS OF YOUR ECONOMIC POLICIES...AND CORRECTING THEM WITH DEEP CHANGES !

Until then nothing has fundamentally changed and NOTHING CAN BE THEN SUSTAINABLE....FOR THE BETTER !!!

Again, just think about it.
If you count on the China-India scam demand theory...for your own success, you get it all wrong !
After all China has grown at about 10 % for the last 20 years !
After all India has grown at about 7-8 % for nearly 20 years !

Had these high growths rates avoided South America failures.....in the past ? Noooo !
Why should it...suddenly...this time ??????

Just think about it.....once more !

Hey...hey ! smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/wink.gif
im listening, ch c
written by asp, December 10, 2008
i note what you are saying

i just see those leaders like chavez, morales, correa , ortega etc making these scary sweeping mandates that i dont see in brazil, thankfully. but, your facts cut through a lot of things

joao!!! yeah,i understand you , visinho...and,i feel a little shame influencing such an educated gentleman like yourself...blame it on 8 years in new york ( even though the estimed augustus isnt aflicted with using foul language, but, he can floweringly dispatch someone with his educated words very quickly and viciosly if he wants to)

but, you have to admint, sometime those words just make you feel better, they can capture the essence of what you feel, and, want to express in the gut ( i sure saw a lot of bad words bandied on this forum before i came in ahhhhhhhh)
ASP
written by Augustus, December 10, 2008
ASP After reading your comments about Chavez and his sordid bunch of low-life gansters, I could not decide whether you support or oppose him...
The rise of "new leftist" leaders, such as the strong-willed, if not somewhat eccentric, Hugo Chávez of Venezuela and the embattled indigenous spokesman Evo Morales of Bolivia, not only can be found preaching their ideas of social democracy, but also putting it into action in the form of constitutional amendments incorporating key social programs.
smilies/angry.gif
I consider all of them tyrannical, hypocrite thieves and liers...
(if you were to ask me, of course- LOL) smilies/grin.gif

If one would like to see REAL "Democratic Socilism" (which represents a MOSTLY egalitarian society within the context of a partiamentary democracy, I would point you towards the Scandinavian Countries: Sweden, Norway, Danmark, and Finland

As for your use of BAD Languange vis-a-vis living in New York City - I've been living in Manhattance for WELL OVER 8 years (LOL) and I do not know anyone who REGULARLY/constantly use bad language in public... WHERE DID YOU LIVE AND HAND OUT??? MY GOODNESS! The South Bronx? The Lower East Side? East Harlem? LOL
I NEVER GO THERE!!!
Anyway, at least I full endorse your preferred location in Brazil smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif - which is a highly civilized region of the country (even though JOAO lives there - LOL) smilies/wink.gif
Augustus
written by João da Silva, December 10, 2008
(even though JOAO lives there - LOL)


Thanks. I am one of the few that is organizing our last defense against the invading Cariocas/New Yorkers. Looking forward to asp joining us to thwart your efforts. May be, ASP could help me to cause a massive landslide while you are here and passing by SC-401. smilies/cheesy.gif
augustus, those were quotes from the article i wanted to criticise
written by asp, December 11, 2008
...i lived in new york from 1978 until 86..its was wild and wholly then. not like now...i lived in hells kitchen most of the time...and, 42nd street was a serious hub of crime and action i traversed 4 to 6 times a day

learning how to tell people to get off your toes was just regular day to day interaction back then...its really toned down now, you can take your family there and everything
ASP - Old Manhattan Chronicles
written by Augustus, December 11, 2008
You arrived in NYC slightly before me, but I can tell we co-existed here at the end of your stay. I know EXACTLY what you are talking about!
Upon my arrival - the very first day! - I was coerced by a fellow visitor to go to a spot which he considered "the center of the world": the corner of 42ns Street & 5th Avenue!!!! Imagine what a spoiled privileged boy - such as I was back then - may have thought at that moment, particularly when my companion insisted to walk on 42nd Street from 5th all the way to 8th Avenue! To mention that I was PETRIFIED is a major understatement, as we had to bypass the crowded strip of drug dealers (which then OPENLY offered their various merchandize with impunity), pimps, prostitutes and the occasional gangs passing by loudly threatening anyone they saw fit… The impressions from this first evening walk through what appeared to be a modern version of “hell”, will stay will me forever…

Indeed Hells Kitchen (and interestingly the name continues being used) was NOT a misnomer… If there were such thing as “Hell” (which you must know I never believed – even back then), 42nd Street could have been, until the mid 1990’s, the first branch of such diabolic establishment on Earth. As you know, the entire place could not possibly be more different today, in view of the significant gentrification it has undergone, for even DISNEY is now located in that very same strip, where groups of families and tourists walk about unperturbed…

Would you be planning any trip up here in the near future?
JOAO! Do I detect the hint of an ungracious (potential) Host?
written by Augustus, December 11, 2008
Are you implying that I would NOT be welcome to your lovely state? LOL
I'm deeply offended... smilies/sad.gif

Interestingly, I'm contemplating the REMOTE possibility of a visit to the mother land at some point during the Southern Hemisphere winter (the only time I can go there). Naturally, if I were to have the energy for such a major ordeal, I would be visiting Rio & perhaps my beloved Pauliceia... As such, you do not have to worry for it would be exceedingly unlikely that I would venture below the Sao Paulo-Parana state border smilies/tongue.gif
Augustus
written by João da Silva, December 11, 2008
Are you implying that I would NOT be welcome to your lovely state? LOL
I'm deeply offended...


You get offended too easily, Milord. I meant it as a joke.! As for your visit to your Motherland during the winter time, I concur fully with your reasons. In general, in the fall it does not rain that heavily in our state and you don't have to worry about mudslides caused by nature. I would never ever imagine causing a man made one during the visit of an aristocrat such as your good Imperial Self. smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif
...
written by asp, December 11, 2008
i was in new york a year ago on business, not sure when ill get back...i love passing through...new york marks you for life..

yeah, the deuce (42nd street ) is differant today. i often think they ought to have a disney display , up there now on one block , of the "old " 42 nd street, with actors playing dope peddlers, prostitutes (lets hear it for the old minnisota strip up eigth ave), gang members, all the lost derilects that got kicked out of the neighborhoods they came from because they were the pits of the pits and too violent ( i did read that).just to give people an idea of how it used to be in the "old days",the atmosphere, the smell ( i actualy saw a guy take down his pants and take a crap at 42nd and eigth ave) it could be a fantastic attraction
Democratic Socialism
written by dnbaiacu, December 11, 2008
The syncretism of Communism and Democracy
Planned long ago.

HEIL NEW WORLD ORDER!!! smilies/angry.gif smilies/angry.gif
Rickie Dickie… Tell Us Something We Don’t Know!
written by ..., December 12, 2008
You often use the word “DESCENT.” We all know that you often engage in such activity… Let me explain:

My hunch is that every time you get together with your boyfriend (s), you always descent upon them with your mouth opened. As such, I’m inclined to classify you as a DECENT DICKIE DESCENTER….

Costinha
COSTA - LOL
written by Augustus, December 15, 2008
You tell him, Costinha! lol
Perhaps now, that you are back, Ricky will finally behave himself!
Ricky has been out of control, particularly before the election (attacking Obama). Somehow you seem better "poised" to put him in "check" smilies/wink.gif
Descent Into Anarchy II
written by Ric, December 16, 2008
Igarapé-Mirim, a few days ago.

Woodburn, Oregon. Woodburn has one of the few remaining west coast drag strips. Across the street is a golf course. A few years ago I had to participate in a golf event while the races were going on. It was really hard not to chuck the clubs and go across the street.

So some jerk puts a bomb in a bank and kills two people. That's anarchy.

Coming soon to an area near you!
RICK // FOLLOWING UP ON YOUR TRAVELS THROUGH THE AMAZON
written by Augustus, December 16, 2008
Mr. Adventurer (LOL)
Regarding my earlier question about your possible visit to the area in the border of Mato Grosso & Para...
You must have noted at the top of the BRAZZ.MAGG section there is a map of visitors which displays the world containing RED DOTS representing the visitors... the Provider is FEEDJIT (Live traffic map). While I'm sure that that map does not provide exact locations, it must refer to some KIND OF RELAY STATION which happens to be the closest to users accessing the site.
Well, with THAT said, there is a SPOT right at a place called "Matupa" and one of the locations is between MATUPA and Guaranta do Norte
on BR-163 (EXACTLY where that federal road meats MT-419).
Since MY BLOG happens to have the SAME visitor
and
Since I cannot expect many residents of the Amazon jungle to be accessing BOTH BRAZZ & My glog... IT HAS TO BE YOU smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif
Please check it out and let me know

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