Brazzil

so the distribution of one book will jeoparadize brazil's cultural and political well being
how so? are brazilian really that stupid or you are just overly paranoid...are you a jew?
I think you should go back to US and put your efforts banning books over there, brazil is an open minded socity and we accept everyone's views....
PS : what do you think about the treatment of non jews in israel? any thoughts?

You know, everyone talks about Christian 'openness' and Christian values etc. As a Muslim, it sounds very appealing, until one looks at Christian History and all the mind-boggling massacres conducted by Christians eg Crusades, Holocaust, annihilation of indigineous Indians (apparently 120 million+).

instead of telling us how civilised you are, why don't you expand on the dark side of your Christian History

Last I knew you couldn't even take a Bible into Saudi Arabia. And, imagine a western Embassy distributing Bibles there. How long would that last?

And, when will the Muslim countries allow Evangelists to create Christian schools for all those lost souls!?!

As to this fellows comment about the Crusades, it was unfortunate but that happened 700 years ago...

And, last I knew, Hitler didn't kill Jews in the name of Christianity. There's a huge difference between a "christian" committing a crime and using religion to commit crimes.

BTW - this is not meant as an attack on your faith - just your comments!

--You know, everyone talks about Christian 'openness' and Christian values etc. As a Muslim, it sounds very appealing, until one looks at Christian History and all the mind-boggling massacres conducted by Christians ---

Yawn.

And here we go. Another uneducated blind-follower comparing current 21st century Islam, with Christianity from 300 years ago, or a madman during world war 2.

Well there my child, you seem to be completely ignoring the entire secular part of the world that is equally PISSED OFF with the antics of a rouge religion and their legions of ignorant followers. You see, most of us atheists were actually quite open minded to understanding the fears and trepidations of a culture striving for acceptance. We listened, and foolishly agreed, to liberal academics that said we had only ourselves to blame for the fanatics that permeate your faith. This is all changing. Liberal-bafflegab and doubletalk in this matter is being eclipsed by the reality we witness on a daily basis. We no longer need to listen to those who steer us wrong on our understanding of Islam (which includes those from your faith that constantly harp on about Islam being “the religion of peace”), we’ve be given several healthy doses of RECENT reality to come to our own conclusions. And sorry to say this, but please just piss OFF and leave us alone.

If you want to stick your head in the sand and waffle on about the Christians of the past, be my guest. Regardless of their history, I do not fear a follower of their God strapping explosives to themselves in this day and age. Yet as recently as last week, 17 followers of the “religion of peace” (Trade mark: loony planet) were arrested after planning a terrorist attack in one of the most liberal, secular and accepting nations on Earth: CANADA. I can’t seem to remember ANY other religious fanatics, whether Christian, Catholic, Jewish or Buddhist trying this in recent times.

Least we not forget the Danish cartoon riots. That alone was proof enough for most that we’re dealing with an incredibly delinquent and dangerously rouge religion, the followers of which – or at least a terrifyingly large percentage – being equally dangerous and insidious. They do not want to be left alone, they want to CHANGE western ideals. Again, please piss off.

Sure, there are followers of Islam that are not terrorists nor fanatics, but WHERE ARE THEY? They remain quite silent after terrorist attacks, and only rear their swords and open their mouths when, say, a cartoonist decides to make a valid political statement about the new LACK of freedom of expression in a multicultural society because of fools like you, and now HE, in HIS OWN COUNTRY needs to live in fear of being lynched by loonies. The Dutch filmmaker Van Gough wasn’t even given the chance to hide; he was murdered outright for making a political message about Islam. Even sadder, his death was celebrated by many in the “religion of Peace”.

You’ve all gone too far. If Brazil let’s this continue, the country will suffer as a consequence – this has been proven in every nation on earth that has opened it’s doors. Brazil should nip this in the bud, along with other nations that had their good faith and openness shoved back into their faces and take the stance that Australia is now taking.

Read on.

THREE CHEERS FOR AUSTRALIA

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown.

Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state and its laws were made by parliament.


"If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you," he said on national television.

"I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia, one the Australian law and another the Islamic law, that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option," Costello said.

Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country.


Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should "clear off".

"Basically, people who don't want to be Australians, and they don't want to live by Australian values and understand them, well then they can basically clear off," he said. Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.

Islam is just what Brasil needs! Since WWII, countries dominated by Islam, a quarter of the world's population? have generated about 500 itellectual and scientific patents. In the same length of time, South Korea, as tiny as it is, has listed over 5,000! Wow, on the outside, Brazil's ineptness and inability to progress will have prepared it well for Islam.

Oh, now it all makes sense! That's why the earlier articles about Brzil turning into a desert! The Arabs and Islam is coming.

Is this why the previous article about goats? I can't stop laughing. This is too good to be true!

"are brazilian really that stupid or you are just overly paranoid?"

Was that a rhetorical question?

"Are you a jew?"

Are you a muslim?

Idiot!

What's the difference if a person is a Jew or muslim. They are both idiots. Leave Brasil alone.

For the information of some people christians have massacred hundreds of millions and this was not 300 years ago, 150 million were massacred in ww1 and ww2.
tens of millions have been nassacrd since ww2 by anerican christians and recently tens of thousands are being massacred in iraq by the saviour of christianity President george bush who says god told him to invade.

trying to put the finger in brazil. let islam come, i want my 4 wives.

my countri have the most great biodiversiti in human races on world tath is wath we will do.we will prove to world tath is possible read a book and not be mesmerized .we are great and if ioy think one other religion is danger wath i will do with milions of persons on sate of bahia,the african reliogions we are in peace even with the evangelical exported byu united states to divide our countrie ,im afraid the evangelicals be on power,and like other evangelical president my president lead my people to war or a preventive wars.we have a lot of arabas living on the country its a secular population do you think they not read the alcorão :i am a catholic,my boss is maçon,hes wife is of candonble and hes sons is evangelicals and we not fight because all of us knows is stupid discuss about religion is diferents points of wiew and no changes.]

Iraq vs. Iran, Irag vs. Kuwait, Jordan vs. Palestinians, Lybia vs. Sudan, Egypt vs. Yemen, Syria vs. Jordan, Samalia vs. itself! Oh, please, this is a big world, and religions and despots need hobbies. Nobody's perfect, it's just that the stupid Chritians enjoy war on a larger scale than everyone else. Hrll, if you can afford a B-52 rather than a camel, can you blame them? 4 wives, sounds nice! Count me in!

DONT ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS? LET'S HAVE ANOTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WERE PEOPLE DON'T GIVE A s**t ABOUT HUMAN LIFE, STRAP BOMBS TO THEMSELVES TO BLOW UP WOMEN AND CHILDREN.GO FIGURE.

The critical difference between islamic and Christian wrong-doings is that Christians have killed in the name of their faith but no-where does Chrsitainity teach hatred and killing.

Muslims hate and kill others because islam teaches them to do this.

Muslims must take agood hard look at the morality of their teachings and have the courage to change.

Yeah, quite a peaceful religion, that Islam: a passage in the Koran instructs readers to pour molten metal down the throats of non-believers.

Can't these people just evolve already? What a bunch of derelects!

Yeah, quite a peaceful religion, that Islam: a passage in the Koran instructs readers to pour molten metal down the throats of non-believers.

Can't these people just evolve already? What a bunch of derelects!

True Christians have never been involved in the wars or killing santioned by the Catholic Church. True Christians if you remember died in the Coloseum of roam for their non-violent beliefs. The founder of true Christianity, Jesus Christ was Crusified for his non-violent beliefs.

Just who are these "so called Christians that you are all railing about?

THEY ARE CHRISTIANS IN NAME ONLY!

By the way, has anyone heard of someone named Saladin?

I think he was the Arab Crusader who started this land taking mess in the first place!

Ancient Babylon was involved in conquest long before the Roman Empire came to power.

Therefore a case can be made that Arabs have been killing, slaving, and taking much longer than Whites Christians!

I wrote this article. I am appalled that whenever Islam is criticized, Muslims and their defenders start talking about Israel and the crusades, in order to silence debate on Islam.

I in no way support Israeli policies over the Palestinians. However, this is a political and human righst issue. Israeli policies do not mean we cannot have a fair and frank discussion over Islam.

Secondly the crusades were violent acts done in the name of christ. However, the crusades did NOT happen until 450 years after Muslim arabs had started an unprovoked jihad and conquererd the middle east, iran, north africa etc. The first crusade was done by Islam...europe did not respond for 450 years until about 1100. Lets get the facts straight. It was Islam that attacked the world, not the other way around.

Proof positive of human authorship! God just sends a burst of fire at you and you're gone--these guys have to do it themselves!

Somebody please tell me what this guy is saying here!

Those Aussies got some guts!

First country to defeat Hitler and Germany in a battle during WWII. They did it while assigned to the British in North Africa.
First country to defeat the Japanese in a battle at Miline Bay.
They were country with the most casualties per capita during WW!, and they weren't even involved in it. They wiped out one third of the Japanese invasion force attacking Singapore with only 13 airplanes, when the British didn't even know there was a war going on. Yeah, they call themselves pacifists, but they know losers when they see them. That's more than Brazil can admit. Three more cheers for the Aussies!

christianity doesn't teach that all non-christians are "infidels" and must be converted to chritianity, islam does.

Here is a news article from yesterday about the Bali bombings in which 202 innocent people were murdered.

"Bali bombings God's will: Bashir
By Rob Taylor in Ngruki, Central Java
June 15, 2006
THOSE killed in the 2002 Bali bombings had been destined to die by God, radical Muslim cleric Abu Bakar Bashir said today.
The families they have left behind should now convert to Islam, he said.

Conversion would give the bereaved relatives "salvation and peace".

"For the Bali bomb families, those who are non-Muslims, my suggestion is just convert to Islam so they can be saved and find some peace from Allah," he said at his home inside his Ngruki Islamic boarding school near the city of Solo in Central Java.

Bashir was released from a Jakarta jail yesterday after serving 25 months for his association with the 2002 Bali bomb blasts, that killed 202 people among them 88 Australians.

But he denies any involvement in terrorism or allegations that he is the spiritual head of militant group Jemaah Islamiah.

He said the families of the dead should understand that they were killed by bombs, not bombers, and that it was "God's will".

Earlier Bashir called on Australian Prime Minister John Howard to convert to Islam or face eternity in hell."


I especially liked this quote:

" He said the families of the dead should understand that they were killed by bombs, not bombers, and that it was "God's will"."

So I guess that the U.S. can use this same excuse?

That the people in Iraq were killed by bombs, not the bombers?? That it was "gods will".

Islam a religion of peace? (Believe it or else!!)

"pure cultural exchanges are based upon mutual respect and reciprocity."

Good one doutor.

Wife Beating: Good Enough for Muhammad, Good Enough for You

Verse 4:34 of the Qur'an is a challenge for
contemporary Muslim apologists in the West.




The three major translations of the Qur'an from Arabic into English by Muslims were completed early in the 20th century. Though working independently, each translator came to the same conclusion concerning verse 4:34 - namely that it commands husbands to beat their wives in a manner that causes pain - if the circumstances agree. This agrees with the traditional interpretation that Islamic clerics have held since the time of Muhammad. After all, the Qur'an plainly states that men are in charge of women.

Enter the modern age, when wife-beating isn't as trendy as it used to be, and suddenly contemporary Muslim apologists living in Judeo-Christian societies are having epiphanies as to the original meaning of verse 4:34. Apparently the true intention of the verse was hidden from Islamic scholars and ordinary Muslims for fourteen centuries and it is only now coming to light that hitting a woman for any reason is "completely against Islam," which coincides, curiously enough, with the popular revulsion for such a practice (at least in the West).

Muhammad used the Arabic word 'idribuhunna' in the verse, which is derived from 'daraba' and usually does mean "to beat." Another derivation, however, means "to go abroad," which leaves our desperate apologist with an exit strategy, it seems. This is what Muhammad must have truly meant, they tell us. If a man can't get his little woman to come to her senses, then he should move out of his own house and back in with his parents until she does.

Sure, sure. This sounds like Islam, doesn't it? The religion that sprang out of the harsh Arabian Peninsula to lay waste to an ever-widening swath of homes, fields and hapless populations with shocking brutality, the religion that cannibalized entire cultures and turned vibrant people into terrorized, subordinate slaves and dhimmis... is really just intended to bring out the Alan Alda in your man after a hard day of pillaging.

But how realistic is it that Muhammad, who taught that women should be made to share their marital bed with three other wives at their husband's discretion (but stoned for adultery), who established the "triple talaq" rule that a woman can be thrown out of the house at any time, who did not disapprove of his men raping women captured in battle... how likely is it that Muhammad would be telling a man to move out of the house rather than use physical force to keep his woman in line?

Not likely. Not likely at all.

Fortunately, we don't have to guess at what Muhammad's position on wife-beating actually was and which meaning of 'daraba' he intended, since the Hadith records at least one instance in which he struck his own (underage) wife in the chest while she was lying in bed. This would be Aisha, his favorite wife, and he did so because she left the house without his permission. Now, if he treated his favorite wife this way, one can only imagine how he might have acted toward his other wives, concubines and slaves.

Naturally, the apologists leave this little tidbit out of their arguments. Neither do they educate their audience of another case that is recorded in one of Islam's most sacred books in which a woman came to Muhammad for help after being beaten so badly by her husband that "her skin was greener than her clothes." The prophet simply rebuked the woman and sent her back to her man with explicit instructions to have more sex.

Look, we're all in favor of Muslims bringing their religion out of the 7th century, but if this can only be done through strategic omission and fringe sophistry, then we have to ask what is the point of salvaging Islam? Why not just pick another religion that's closer to what you want Islam to be?

Oh, that's right the Religion of Peace threatens murder for anyone who leaves.

Never has this means of intimidation been more necessary than in the information age, when many Muslims are learning for the first time about the history and true teachings of their religion, and how poorly it contrasts with others.

[Additional Note (5-19-06) - Not all Western Muslims are as intent on disguising their religion with slight-of-hand. The multilingual site, IslamQA.com is quite blunt about the four conditions under which a husband may beat his wife:

Discipline. The husband has the right to discipline his wife if she disobeys him in something good, not if she disobeys him in something sinful, because Allaah has enjoined disciplining women by forsaking them in bed and by hitting them, when they do not obey.

The Hanafis mentioned four situations in which a husband is permitted to discipline his wife by hitting her. These are: not adorning herself when he wants her to; not responding when he calls her to bed and she is taahirah (pure, i.e., not menstruating); not praying; and going out of the house without his permission.


http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Articles/WifeBeating.htm

Simpyl the truth is told....for once !

By the way, who believes that the Muslims will accept the Bible translated from Portuguese into
Arabic ?

Knowing that the Muslims far outnumbers the Brazilians, this is millions of copies you should offer them !

Do you think that the Muslims will accept and appreciate such a gift ??????
So why do you ????
You are quite cheap, and without self esteem......contrary to the Muslims !

So you think the Ku Klux Klan and the Spanish Inquisition are bad?

So do we, but...
Put the Numbers in Perspective


More people are killed by Islamists each year than in all 350 years of the Spanish Inquisition combined. (source)

Islamic terrorists murder more people every day than the Ku Klux Klan has in the last 50 years. (source)

More civilians were killed by Muslim extremists in two hours on September 11th than in the 36 years of sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland. (source)

19 Muslim hijackers killed more innocents in two hours on September 11th than the number of American criminals put to death in the last 65 years. (source)

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Become a muslim and beat my wife? Wow! Islam offers hope to backwards peoples everywhere!

It's all about Iraq, isn't it?

Yep, it's all about Iraq and...

India and the Sudan and Algeria and Afghanistan and New York and Pakistan and Israel and Russia and Chechnya and the Philippines and Indonesia and Nigeria and England and Thailand and Spain and Egypt and Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia and Ingushetia and Dagestan and Turkey and Kabardino-Balkaria and Morocco and Yemen and Lebanon and France and Uzbekistan and Gaza and Tunisia and Kosovo and Bosnia and Mauritania and Kenya and Eritrea and Syria and Somalia and California and Kuwait and Virginia and Ethiopia and Iran and Jordan and United Arab Emirates and Louisiana and Texas and Tanzania and Germany and Pennsylvania and Belgium and Denmark and East Timor and Qatar and Maryland and Tajikistan and the Netherlands and Scotland and Chad and Canada and...

...and pretty much wherever Muslims believe their religion tells them to:

"Fight and slay the Unbelievers wherever ye find them. Seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war."
Qur'an, Sura 9:5

Remember, Christianity created the Western world, not the other way around. And Western civilization has a nasty habit of biting back at encrouchments, in a bad way. History has proven this. The further the Western world is antagonized by the muslims, the more wraith will build. Western anger may be safely behind the dam now, pray it doesn't break by the constant poking and jabbing by the muslim instigations of violence and intolerance.

It's the best way to educate people what a sick religion Islam is. All you have to do is take a bright yellow highlighter and mark all the passages that would offend any human with a sense of justice or compassion. There are many.

Highlight the ones that tell Muslims to kill non-believers, that make women equal to 1/4 the value of a man under the law, to make peace when they are in the minority and to fight to subjigate non-Muslims when they are in the majority. Just look at any Muslim majority country now. A non-Muslim cannot live in peace or speak their mind in any of them.

Don't fall for the whitewash propaganda from Muslims about how Islam is a "Religion of Peace". These web sites are great at exposing Islam for what it truly is:

http://www.faithfreedom.org

http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com

It's not a "religion" of privately held beliefs as most people understand the term "religion". It's more like an "ideology", like Communism that links beliefs with political control, social structure and legal system.

"are brazilian really that stupid or you are just overly paranoid?"

Was that a rhetorical question?

"Are you a jew?"

Are you a muslim?

Idiot!
Ok,,I am not muslim as the matter of fact I detest all religions, I believe
This world would be better off without religion. Now for me there is no difference
Between a suicide bomber and jew who move to west bank from such peaceful and prosperous countries such as Holland and Sweden risking his and his families life because he believes this land was given to them by god and the christen organization who funds millions of dollars to these jews, why? Because they are waiting for Jesus to come back and he would only come back if Israel under jews control. They are all religious fundamentalists and fanatics. They all should be eliminated

This is a threat all Brazilians- All people in SP- should be careful- islamist are terrorist- When can give the Bible and rosey in Islamic countries- this should be allowed

"DONT ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS? LET'S HAVE ANOTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WERE PEOPLE DON'T GIVE A s**t ABOUT HUMAN LIFE, STRAP BOMBS TO THEMSELVES TO BLOW UP WOMEN AND CHILDREN.GO FIGURE."
my question for all you f**k heads like this one...
What is the f**kin difference between smoking innocent women and children from a plane throwing bomb(which American and Israelis are doing for years) and by people blowing themselves up?….all of you are killing innocent people therefore all of you are f**kin murderers muslims, jews and christians , this world is better off without you religious fanatics

It's not a question of HOW you kill it's WHO and WHY.

The Muslim terrorists and the millions of Muslims who tacitly support them kill innocent civilians because they are of a different religion. Whenever Americans and Israelis purposefully kill innocent civilians because of their religion, it is equally wrong! But unless you're a conspiracy theorist, they are not doing this. (Unless you count those Marines who if found guilty will be COURT MARSHALLED).

Hamas, on the other hand, has it is written into their governing charter their goal of killing every last Jew and taking over Israel. Israel has the military power to destroy every Palestinian in less than a week, yet they don't do it! Give a Palestinian a nuke and see how long it takes her to blow up Israel.

Notice that the Muslim apologists seem to have stopped posting after we quoted from their nasty book...

I guess they counted on us being as ignorant and gullible as we were 5 years ago, before they declared open war, and we started studying up.

Do the persons recieving the Koran understand that if they drop it, or dispose of it in any way that they will jeopardize their very lives? Now THAT'S a 'peaceful religion! Give it back, or refuse it before something awful happens.

"True Christians have never been involved in the wars or killing santioned by the Catholic Church. True Christians if you remember died in the Coloseum of roam for their non-violent beliefs. The founder of true Christianity, Jesus Christ was Crusified for his non-violent beliefs.

Just who are these "so called Christians that you are all railing about?

THEY ARE CHRISTIANS IN NAME ONLY!"

YES I agree with you poster. People who think first of their profits are not actual christians, and that is exactly what happened with the crusades and other "christian wars" like WWI/II and what is happening in middle east for example. Although they all claim Christian beliefs they are being manipulators. Christian faith has nothing to do with selfish benefits. I thought the Christian faith said that Christ would come when every soul on earth has heard about Christ’s justice (e.g. God), am I wrong?

continuing above
I think that the current “Christian” policies that furnish money to Israel are not focusing on religious matters. They are occupied with the geopolitical control of Middle rich-of-petroleum East. Just as back in the 80’s when governments not related exclusively to the “Christianity” provided money to them and in the late 40’s they enabled the foundation of the Israeli state. But, yes religions are something to be very carefully thought, religions for their own sake are not important as like some one here said it’s not the color of the skin that matters but personal qualities, it’s not the religion that matters but personal qualities.

It seems a lot of people seem to care a lot for muslim women, i think you should take care of your own women first, in america around 800,000 women are raped every year, yet the conviction rate is less than 10 per cent.millions of women are beaten and assaulted every year,some of the biggest whore houses are in america and you call this christianity.
A muslim husband has the right to reprimand his wife if she is debasing her self or her husband by first verbally informing her of what she has done,if she still persists then he has the option of not sleeping in the same bed, if she still persists in her ways then he can admonish her by using a twig or miswaq which is the size of a normal pen to tap her on the arm ,shoulder or hands he cannot
touch the face, if she still persists then divorce is decreed in a muslim family the welfare of the children are parmount so that they can be bought up with a mother and father and lead a stable life not become psycologically scarred.
one of the signs of christianity today is the breakdown of marriage which is leading to psycologically scared children who turn to drugs and alcohol, a lot of children are turning away from marriage to homosexuality and lesbianism.
today more eductaed women are becoming muslims in europe then men it does not matter how much islam is vilified the truth shall prevail,western civilisation is based on islams 1000 years of islamic discovery and inventions when the according to western historians europe was in the dark ages, it was dark for europe but no the world.
ever since the emrgence of modern western civilisation it has been massacring humanity in the hundreds of millions and still persists in massacring humanity and robbing other nations.

It's just that most all terrorists are Muslims.

I am a guy with some education and I had the opportunity to travel around the world. I visited Indonesia. I went in a book store in Surabaya and in Jakarta. The books are Bible and Koran, one side Koran and another side Bible.
So, what is the point about Koran in Brazil. Let Brazilian get some education. Perhaps, if women in Brazil become Muslin will be less bitches.

"Bring Koran on" and "smoke korans out"

Quote:

"You know, everyone talks about Christian 'openness' and Christian values etc. As a Muslim, it sounds very appealing, until one looks at Christian History and all the mind-boggling massacres conducted by Christians eg Crusades, Holocaust, annihilation of indigineous Indians (apparently 120 million+).

instead of telling us how civilised you are, why don't you expand on the dark side of your Christian History"


Reply:

I haven't read other replies below this on, I just wanted to reply to this real quick, and I would like to point out I do not wish to turn this into a Christian vs Muslim debate.

But being that Islam immediately began military, political, and social expansion very early on in her birth, to the point of conquering most the quoted "known world" it is quite ironic that one does not refer to their far better and all encompassing terrestial expansion as a "crusade." The quoted Christian Crusaders only held *towns* unlike Islam that created a virtual terrestial empire (centuries before Christianity went to war for the cross).

The Holocaust is ironic you mention too, not just because it was secular ideological driven thing, but also because you skip over the Armenian genocide that opened the 20th century. Which was Muslims attempting to drive out Christian ethnic Armenians.

The Amerindian thing surely Christians have accountability for, but likewise does *secular* government. For example, it was not the Pilgrims that slaughtered Indians, it was U.S. Army regulars. It was the stuanch "seperation of church and state" secular government that drove Indians from the travals of the Trail of Tears to "Indian Reservations."

In Latin America the Church was the primary protector of Amerindians from the crown and European adeventures.


History is multilayered, as well filled with much fiction, that 12 people on court jury can'e be sure of recent events in recent crimes with extensive testimony, it is doubtful people today can be 100% certain about historical events that occured a century or more. Unfortunately most people recieve their historical information from gossip per pop tv and slick covered magazines not bias free.

My own personal belief is that one can never be 100% accurate about history, one can only be less accurate or more accurate about history.


Having said that... I fully support not only understanding about Islam into Brazil, but full throttle expansion of Islam into Brazil as well as into the UK and the United States.

equals the loss of freedom. Noth USA's corny version of freedom that it uses as a punch line, but the actual meaning that every man AND woman has the right to lead his or her life the way he or she pleases. This type of idea makes a muslim cringe. Did you read the post above about the nut job that went through the steps of correcting his disobedient wife, as if there are no untrustworthy, deranged husbands?! A world of Islam would be a bland and awful place, just like the countries dominated by muslim governments. Ever been to one of those? Did you notice how many of those countries' citiznes are migrating to Western countries, where they are happy to leach off of the Western country's social system but refuse to particpiate in society? WHat a bunch of parasites! Islam is a religion of insecurity. If it isn't, then why do muslims insist that everyone else MUST belive what they belive? WHy can't they live and let live?

Islam is, was and always will be a complete fraud.

It was used by Mohammed as a political instrument to gain power over people and expand his desire for wealth and power.

And he did it in the most ruthless way one can imagine, he was no saint by any means.

I am a guy with some education and I had the opportunity to travel around the world. I visited Indonesia. I went in a book store in Surabaya and in Jakarta. The books are Bible and Koran, one side Koran and another side Bible.
So, what is the point about Koran in Brazil. Let Brazilian get some education. Perhaps, if women in Brazil become Muslin will be less bitches

What you mean, you think it is easier brazilian women become muslim than american women, Is that what you mean?! Grrr...

"Whenever Americans and Israelis purposefully kill innocent civilians because of their religion, it is equally wrong! But unless you're a conspiracy theorist, they are not doing this"

Have you been living on the moon? Are you really that blind or you think other
People are brain dead, if you really think that jews are killing in isreal not for religion
you need brain replacement (if there is such a thing)….

"Islam is, was and always will be a complete fraud.
It was used by Mohammed as a political instrument to gain power over people and expand his desire for wealth and power. "

I agree with you 100 percent, but it’s not only mohammad jesus, mosses and others who claims to be prophetess , they all wanted power over people…
Every religion is a fraud

WOMEN IN ISLAM
It seems a lot of people seem to care a lot for muslim women, i think you should take care of your own women first, in america around 800,000 women are raped every year, yet the conviction rate is less than 10 per cent.millions of women are beaten and assaulted every year,some of the biggest whore houses are in america and you call this christianity.
A muslim husband has the right to reprimand his wife if she is debasing her self or her husband by first verbally informing her of what she has done,if she still persists then he has the option of not sleeping in the same bed, if she still persists in her ways then he can admonish her by using a twig or miswaq which is the size of a normal pen to tap her on the arm ,shoulder or hands he cannot
touch the face, if she still persists then divorce is decreed in a muslim family the welfare of the children are parmount so that they can be bought up with a mother and father and lead a stable life not become psycologically scarred.
one of the signs of christianity today is the breakdown of marriage which is leading to psycologically scared children who turn to drugs and alcohol, a lot of children are turning away from marriage to homosexuality and lesbianism.
today more eductaed women are becoming muslims in europe then men it does not matter how much islam is vilified the truth shall prevail,western civilisation is based on islams 1000 years of islamic discovery and inventions when the according to western historians europe was in the dark ages, it was dark for europe but no the world.
ever since the emrgence of modern western civilisation it has been massacring humanity in the hundreds of millions and still persists in massacring humanity and robbing other nations.

This comment was very informing and shows how islam can be misunderstood.

Quite strange that almost all the largest oil producing coun tries are from Muslims countries.

Quite strange that with so much wealth....there is so much poverty...in their own countries.

Quite strange that these same countries dont provide high education but rather go the other countries Universities.

Simply stated, what do they do with all that money ????
I suppose they do the same as in Brazil : eveything for the minority and the rest for the majority !

Even look at Venezuela and Chavez, it is the fifth or so oil producing country, but the poverty rate is very high, all due because most of the oil money goes into a few pockets through corruption.

Same for Brazil. A country quite rich in land, weather, water, basic commodities but.......so poor for the vast majority of the population.

In a certain way, the philosophy of South America and Muslim countries are quite similar.

"Having said that... I fully support not only understanding about Islam into Brazil, but full throttle expansion of Islam into Brazil as well as into the UK and the United States."

Well if you are a Muslim of course you support the expansion of Islam unto the entire world! And if you are not a Muslim, why aren't you? Since you think it should expand everywhere.

"islams 1000 years of islamic discovery and inventions when the according to western historians europe was in the dark ages, it was dark for europe but no the world. "

Ahaha.... if the Islamic world is so sich with discovery and invention why is every Muslim country the backwater of the world? The most intolerant of the world? Why do they emigrate in DROVES to the wicked Western countries you so despise? If you think Islamic countries are so wonderful then STAY THERE OR GO THERE. We don't want you here and we don't want our countries to become like yours. If you assimilated when you came to our countries it would be a different story, but you don't! You come and you demand for us to change, like a rude and disrespectful visitor.

Quote:

"equals the loss of freedom. Noth USA's corny version of freedom that it uses as a punch line, but the actual meaning that every man AND woman has the right to lead his or her life the way he or she pleases. This type of idea makes a muslim cringe. Did you read the post above about the nut job that went through the steps of correcting his disobedient wife, as if there are no untrustworthy, deranged husbands?! A world of Islam would be a bland and awful place, just like the countries dominated by muslim governments. Ever been to one of those? Did you notice how many of those countries' citiznes are migrating to Western countries, where they are happy to leach off of the Western country's social system but refuse to particpiate in society? WHat a bunch of parasites! Islam is a religion of insecurity. If it isn't, then why do muslims insist that everyone else MUST belive what they belive? WHy can't they live and let live?"


Reply:

I've been to Dubai and Abu Dabi. Nice places, not exactly as culturally lose as say Chicago, New York, or what you would find in London or Rio de Janeiro, but they were nice and clean cities anyways. Dubai actually is a playground for rich Arabs, Thais, and even Brits.

Islam is not as bad as you make it out to be. True it is more Puritan than the other 4 religions of the 5 Great Religions, but Islam is by no measure "bland."

Quote:

"western civilisation is based on islams 1000 years of islamic discovery and inventions when the according to western historians europe was in the dark ages, it was dark for europe."


Reply:

The term "dark ages" is just a result of hyper bias by some historians. Northern Europe was never uppity cultured, literate, or brimming with science before Rome was sacked.

Much of what Islamic cultures learned they learned from Eastern Christians in the Middle East and Africa and from Hindu India. The "Arab numerals" we use in the West actually come from Hindu India, the West just recievied it by ways of Islam.

The West slowly progressed in technology and learning as time went on. Northern Europe was in many ways more advanced in in 900 CE than it was in 200 CE. And not all of the Islamic world was advanced in the East, namely in much of Black Africa. By the time the Europeans arrived in Africa encountering the Black Islamic kingdoms, many of those Islamic kingdoms were populated by peoples that walked around bare foot, ball head, and far technologically behind the Western Europeans.

Originally most the Arab trobal peoples were very unlearned peoples, kind of like the Northern Europeans in the early centuries CE. So it is to Islamic and Christian credit that under their respective nurture both regional groups began to appreciate greater culture and learning. Due to Islams location, closer to the learned and cultured civilizations in the Middle East and Eastern Africa, arguably they became much more rapidly affected by civilized culture ans learning than Northern European Christians did.

I am a Christian.

Let the real Muslins come to Brazil. They have more respect for Christ than many Christians I know.

Besides, there are things we can learn from them, good things. I have a copy of the Koran home and I, once in while, do read their scriptures and compare with the Bible.

I have a friend who is Muslin and he is one the finest person I have met.

A real Muslin is a good person, kind and friendly not those fanatics that act as if they stand for God.

Real Christians and Jews could not serve in Hitler and Himmler's SS. But real Muslims could! That has always been an intresting bid of history that few note.

quote:

"Perhaps, if women in Brazil become Muslin will be less bitches."

LOL...what an idiot! Obviously you aren't familiar with brazilian culture, and obviously not familiar with brazilian women.

Try telling a brazilian women she needs her husbands permission to leave the house! And if she does so without permission that her husband has the right to beat the s**t out of her....lol.

Not only that, but if she commits adultery she can be stoned to death!

Brazil would run out of rocks!

How stupid. !!
How old are you , son?
Go back to your middle school homework.

Some of Hitler´s generals were jews.
Ignorant people are a shame.

Some others were homosexuals. You never heard about it, right?

I am going to get my copy. I am a Brazilian and I am far from being an American robot.
There is no 1984 atmosphere in Brazil. Brazil is a democratic country and you can read jew books and muslim books.

The Iraq war is the cause of an increase in neurotic population in the USA.
When they come back home, they have no more a job, they are terribly neurotic. Many of them have killed their wives (their wives and their children ). That´s why you can read stupid things on this nazi site.
Amerrica uber alles.

If I were to choose between a muslim and a fake American christian I would throw the American into a garbage dumping area.

Beware. Would you trust a people that blows up civilians, old people, women, whatever, when they are just celebrating a wedding party?
Do you know what they say their religion is???

Blue for greed - White for desguise - Red for blood, much blood.
Stars for invaded countries.

An invincible ditto: Amerrrica uber alles.

Judging all of America based on the actions of a president that barely half of the population voted for and that less than half of the people currently aprove of, along with a bunch of backwoods rednecks, shows your disturbing ignorance. Get educated. Go to New York City some time and then start spouting off that stupid s**t.

Brilliant Quote -

“I am going to get my copy. I am a Brazilian and I am far from being an American robot.
There is no 1984 atmosphere in Brazil. Brazil is a democratic country and you can read jew books and muslim books.”

Humble reply –

Ah, once again we’re blessed to bear witness to that ever so prominent Brasilian intellect and sharp lucidity. This is a paramount example of why Brasil is leading the world in academic research, technological advancement, global astuteness and sheer intellectual prowess. We should be honored that there is a site such as this, so that us mere simple gringos can bask off the radiant glow that is the brilliant Brasilian mind at work: a mind so fertile in organized ideas, so rich in historical and factual knowledge and so unquestionably surpassing to all of us in every synapse related facet. Ah, yes – the Brasilian genius: be proud that s/he has taken a moment from their busy work-filled and academically challenging day to bring us a small smattering of their sagacity and perspicacity. I cherish living in Brasil, for you see, not a day goes by when I am not awe-struck by the vast superiority of this culture’s mental capacity to sift through crap and practically place and organize complicated ideas in a digestible form for us dumb gringos.

Quote:

"I am a Christian.

Let the real Muslins come to Brazil. They have more respect for Christ than many Christians I know."


Reply:

Haha!

This is probably pretty true. Muslims have extreme respect for all the prophets. And for some reason their women are perhaps the most loyal women on earth to their men and religious culture. Which boggles my mind, given the fact Muslim men can marry like 4 wives and non Muslim women, but Muslim women *can only marry* Muslim men and only have one husband. The roles between men and women are much more marked in Islam culture and society, plus the women are much more compelled to be modest in dress and behavior. Yet for some reason they are by-in-large phenominally more loyal to that from which they came and to that which they call their own.

I have much admiration for Islamic women. Not because of their modesty in dress and more submissive social role, because I'm quite the fan of the Brazilian bikini and tight jeans , as well I like women sharing a social and sexual equality with me. However - at least with Catholic women and secular women - they are some of the most untrust worthy women on the face of the planet. Their own children in their womb can't trust them to bring them to birth. They cheat, lie, thieve, conspire to murder, manipulate, always want more more more, and will never take an inch of responsibility for any thing.

Personally I welcome Islam coming. Something has to be true and good about Islam just by essence of the fidelity of their women.

And yes a religion can be judged by its women (not just its men).

So was the white plantation master married to the black woman that he had children with or was she a slave? Some people here discuss irrelevent issues. Are Brazilians still slaves or free people. I still believe that there is a white upper class in Brazil. You can mention many bad things about muslims but let me mention this incident.In the days when slavery was open (not hidden like these days) Bilal a black slave at the time of the muslims prophet was owned by a rich man who hated that his slave had coverted to islam. He offered to sell him so that he could be a free man to the muslims who were small in number and relatively poor for a price much higher than his value. The muslims agreed. The rich man laughed and said if you offered me much less i would have accepted. The muslim who paid the money said if you asked for 100 times that amount i would have paid it. Tell me what respect does the white man have for the non white man. Nothing, he wiped out more tribes that were ever recorded in the history books. Took over vast lands, still to this day enjoy the assets of those conquests. While whole continents like africa suffer.

quote:

"Many of them have killed their wives (their wives and their children )."

WTF?? Please,.give us some numbers to back this idiotic statement up or is this just another "rip it out of the ass" factoid?

You f**king people are ignorant. And obviously, dying of jealousy of the united states.

Why else would the U.S. be the target of illegal aliens all over the planet and muslims target the U.S. because we believe that all men, and women, are created equal.

to the idiot that wrote.

"And for some reason their women are perhaps the most loyal women on earth to their men..."

what a f**king retard! Would you be loyal if every now and again when you saw one of the women in your village that committed adultery get stoned to death!!??

Or buried alive??

Want to see pictures??

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/


Look a quarter of the way down the page....you'll see why muslims have low rates of adultery!

And, if you're muslim, and you want to leave the religion....it's like the f**king mafia, you leave in one way only....in a f**king box!

Other Religions
Home > Christianity Today Magazine > Churches & Ministries > Other Religions

Christianity Today, January 7, 2002

Is Islam a religion of peace?
The controversy reveals a struggle for the soul of Islam.
By James A. Beverley | posted 12/28/2001

Osama bin Laden, the world's most notorious terrorist, has handed Muslims everywhere their worst public-relations nightmare: September 11 as a picture, an embodiment, of Islam. Muslims now have to define themselves in relation to the day of infamy.

Abdulaziz Sachedina, a Muslim scholar at the University of Virginia, says he does not remember ever praying so earnestly that God would spare Muslims the blame for "such madness that was unleashed upon New York and Washington . …I felt the pain and, perhaps for the first time in my entire life, I felt embarrassed at the thought that it could very well be my fellow Muslims who had committed this horrendous act of terrorism. How could these terrorists invoke God's mercifulness and compassion when they had, through their evil act, put to shame the entire history of this great religion and its culture of toleration?"

Every judgment about Islam, all reaction to Muslim doctrine, and each Muslim-Christian encounter are now cast in light of the events of that dreadful day.

Islam as a Path of Peace
There are three distinct interpretations of the events of September 11. The first view is that the terrorist acts do not represent Islam. President George W. Bush best expressed this notion when he said that "Islam is a religion of peace." One of the leading Muslims to echo this is Yusuf Islam (the former rock musician Cat Stevens, who now helps promote Muslim education in England). "Today, I am aghast at the horror of recent events and feel it a duty to speak out," he said in a London newspaper. "Not only did terrorists hijack planes and destroy life; they also hijacked the beautiful religion of Islam."

During an interfaith ceremony at Yankee Stadium on September 23, Imam Izak-El M. Pasha pleaded, "Do not allow the ignorance of people to have you attack your good neighbors. We are Muslims, but we are Americans. We Muslims, Americans, stand today with a heavy weight on our shoulders that those who would dare do such dastardly acts claim our faith. They are no believers in God at all."

Major Muslim organizations throughout North America, including the Council on American-Islamic Relations, the Islamic Society of North America, and the Muslim Students Association, denounced the work of the terrorists. The powerful American Muslim Council issued a press release on September 11, saying it "strongly condemns this morning's plane attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon and expresses deep sorrow for Americans that were injured and killed. amc sends out its condolences to all the families of the victims of this cowardly terrorist attack."

With the exception of Iraq, Muslim nations distanced themselves from the attack on America. "Iran has vehemently condemned the suicidal terrorist attacks in the United States," Iran Today reported in a front-page story on September 24, "and has expressed its deep sorrow and sympathy with the American nation." The governments of Bahrain, Egypt, Lebanon, Oman, Pakistan, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, United Arab Emirates, and Yemen expressed similar sentiments.

Leading intellectuals, who have argued that terrorist acts represent only fringe Muslims, have also promoted the view that Islam is a religion of peace. Edward Said, the controversial Columbia University professor, argued in The Nation that September 11 is an act of cultic religion. Comparing Islamists to the Branch Davidians and the Rev. Jim Jones, he said September 11 is a model of "the carefully planned and horrendous, pathologically motivated suicide attack and mass slaughter by a small group of deranged militants . …the capture of big ideas by a tiny band of crazed fanatics for criminal purposes."

Mark Juergensmeyer, professor at the University of California at Santa Barbara and a specialist on religious violence, put it similarly: "Osama bin Laden is to Islam [what] Timothy McVeigh is to Christianity."

The Darker Side
After initial emphasis on Islam as a religion of peace, a second interpretation came to the fore. Editorials started to emerge that were less optimistic about Islam per se and far more alarmed about the scope and depth of militant Islam. Novelist Salman Rushdie, on whom the late Ayatollah Khomeini once issued a death order, wrote in The New York Times:

If this isn't about Islam, why the worldwide Muslim demonstrations in support of Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda? Why did those 10,000 men armed with swords and axes mass on the Pakistan-Afghanistan frontier, answering some mullah's call to jihad? Why are the war's first British casualties three Muslim men who died fighting on the Taliban side? . …[Islamists have] a loathing of modern society in general, riddled as it is with music, godlessness, and sex; and a more particularized loathing (and fear) of the prospect that their own immediate surroundings could be taken over—"Westoxicated"—by the liberal Western-style way of life.
Poverty is their great helper, and the fruit of their efforts is paranoia. This paranoid Islam, which blames outsiders, "infidels," for all the ills of Muslim societies, and whose proposed remedy is the closing of those societies to the rival project of modernity, is presently the fastest growing version of Islam in the world.
Others have been naming Islam's dark side as well, without suggesting that all Muslims are terrorists. Thomas Friedman, author of From Beirut to Jerusalem, has taunted Osama bin Laden in his New York Times columns, while also warning of the terrorist's popularity in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, and other Muslim nations.

British journalist Julie Burchill wrote a scathing article in The Guardian against the "sustained effort on the part of the British media to present Islam—even after the Rushdie affair and now during the Taliban's reign of terror—as something essentially 'joyous' and 'vibrant,' sort of like Afro-Caribbean culture, only with fasting and fatwas."

Melanie Phillips, writing in The Times of London, raises the possibility of treason among British Muslims. "As if the progress of the Afghan war wasn't enough to worry about, a nightmare specter is emerging at home. The attitude of many British Muslims should cause the greatest possible alarm that we have a fifth column in our midst . …Thousands of alienated young Muslims, most of them born and bred here but who regard themselves as an army within, are waiting for an opportunity to help to destroy the society that sustains them. We now stare into the abyss, aghast."

In the weeks after the World Trade Center crumbled, there was no proof of an Islamic world totally united against terrorism. Rick Bragg reported in The New York Times about Muslim boys running through their school compounds in Pakistan on September 11. They were "celebrating, stabbing the fingers on one hand into the palm of the other, to simulate a plane stabbing into a building." Palestinian authorities went into overdrive to suppress images of youths celebrating the deaths in America.

September 11 as Islam
There is, finally, the view that September 11 represents authentic Islam, a notion adopted by Osama bin Laden and his many followers. His revolutionary zeal lacks no clarity. "The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies—civilians and military—is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it," he said in February 1998. Muslim extremists from Bangladesh, Egypt, and Pakistan also signed this fatwa, titled "Urging Jihad Against Americans." Bin Laden told ABC News producer Rahimullah Yousafsai last winter that he would kill his own children, if it were necessary, to hit American targets.

Ironically, some Christian writers have also advanced the view that September 11 represents true Islam. Of these, the most influential is Robert A. Morey, the popular evangelical cult-watcher, who in recent years has targeted Islam as a deadly religion. Author of The Islamic Invasion, Morey has often debated leading Muslim apologists, in fiery exchanges that have led to mob attacks on him and repeated calls for his death. Morey has accused Muhammad of being a racist, a murderer, an irrational zealot, and a pedophile. After September 11, Morey announced a spiritual crusade against Islam, and invited Christians to sign this pledge:

In response to the Muslim Holy War now being waged against us, We, the undersigned, following the example of the Christian Church since the 7th century, do commit ourselves, our wealth, and our families to join in a Holy Crusade to fight against Islam and its false god, false prophet, and false book. We, the undersigned, believe that Islam is the root of all Muslim terrorism, which is the fruit of Islam.
Christian scholars have criticized Morey for his invective, but he remains unmoved. He has argued that Muslims will start World War III. On his Web site, Morey invites Christians to fill in a "certificate of valor" that reads, "I wish to join in the Crusade of Christ against Islam. To that end, and to demonstrate in the crusade against Islam, I hereby donate toward emergency wartime funds."

The Rise of the Militants
Sorting through these three interpretations demands analysis of some deeper issues. First, we must come to grips with the vast unrest in the Islamic world, both now and over the last two centuries. There has been a growing radicalization in Islam since the early 1800s, both in response to the spread of Western colonialism and the demise of Muslim political supremacy.

Osama bin Laden traces his radicalism to the Wahhabism of his native Saudi Arabia, a movement that began with the reformer Muhammad ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab (1703–87), an advocate of a puritanical reading of Islamic law and belief. The Wahhabis threatened the interests of the Ottoman Turks and, in concert with the Saud dynasty, eventually gained control of Mecca and Medina, Islam's holiest cities.

A fundamentalist thrust in Islam emerged in Egypt as well, with the formation of the Muslim Brotherhood (also known as Al-Ikhwan al-Muslimun) in 1927. Tormented first by the presence of British rule and then by a tepid Muslim government, brotherhood founder Hassan al-Banna and Sayyid Qutb, his chief intellectual heir, sought by any means, including violence, to restore true Islamic rule to Egypt.

The brotherhood started branches in Jordan and Syria, and militant groups in India, Iran, and Iraq imitated its radicalism. Muhammad Nawab-Safavi started his Fedayeen-e-Islami movement in Iran in the 1930s and told his followers: "Throw away your beads and get a gun: for beads keep you silent whilst guns silence the enemies of Islam." Abul A'la Maududi organized his militant Jamaat-e-Islami in the Punjab in 1941. After the creation of Pakistan in 1947, Maududi tried repeatedly to convince the government to adopt his stricter version of Islamic rule.

Western awareness of militant Islam came with the radical overthrow of the Shah of Iran in 1979 and the establishment of harsh Shari'ah law under the Ayatollah Khomeini. American exposure to Islamic fundamentalism came with the arrest of Americans in Tehran, the bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993, the explosions at U.S. embassies in Africa, the attack on the USS Cole in Yemen, and then the horrors of September 11.

Interpreting Jihad
Every discussion of Islamic militancy turns eventually to two fundamental concerns. First, how much is Islamism (that practiced by fundamentalist Muslims open to violence) rooted in the teaching and practice of the prophet Muhammad? Would he celebrate the work of Osama bin Laden? Second, are the violent jihads of our day sanctioned by the Qur'an and by the actions of early Muslim leaders?

The prophet himself engaged in many military battles and could be merciless to his enemies, even those who simply attacked him verbally. His original sympathies with Jews and Christians as "Peoples of the Book" gave way to a harsher treatment when they did not follow Islam. In one infamous episode, Muhammad cut the heads off hundreds of Jewish males of the Beni Quraiza tribe who did not side with him in battle. The prophet is quoted as saying, "The sword is the key of heaven and hell; a drop of blood shed in the cause of Allah, a night spent in arms, is of more avail than two months of fasting or prayer: whosoever falls in battle, his sins are forgiven, and at the day of judgment his limbs shall be supplied by the wings of angels and cherubim."

In reference to the Qur'an, many have drawn attention to the famous passage in Surah 2:256: "Let there be no compulsion in religion." This verse fits well with other Qur'an verses in which jihad means personal and communal spiritual struggle or striving. But the Qur'an also uses jihad to mean "holy war," and the language can be extreme. Surah 5:33 reads, "The punishment of those who wage war against God and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter."

Both the example of the prophet and some emphases in the Qur'an provided warrant for Islam's earliest leaders to spread Islam by military conquest. Bloody expansionism was also justified through original Islamic law that divided the world into two realms: Dar al-Harb (the land of war) and Dar al-Islam (land under Islamic rule). Both Paul Fregosi's Jihad in the West and Jewish scholar Bat Ye'or's Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam document the reality of Muslim crusades long before the notorious Christian crusades of the Middle Ages.

Out of the vortex of these realities emerge two different perspectives among modern Muslims. Islamists consider their actions a true jihad or "holy war" against infidels and the enemies of Islam. They believe it is right to target America, "the great Satan." Osama bin Laden believes that the Qur'an supports his campaign, that the prophet would bless his cause, and that Allah is on his side. But the vast majority of Muslims believe that nothing in Muhammad's life or in the Qur'an or Islamic law justifies terrorism.

Bernard Lewis, the great historian of Islam, noted in The Wall Street Journal that throughout history, Muslims have given jihad both spiritual and military meaning. Lewis also pays particular attention to the legal traditions in Islam about what constitutes just war. After noting the many limitations placed on military jihad, he writes, "What the classical jurists of Islam never remotely considered is the kind of unprovoked, unannounced mass slaughter of uninvolved civil populations that we saw in New York. For this there is no precedent and no authority in Islam."

"The Clash of Civilizations," Samuel Huntington's essay for Foreign Affairs (Summer 1993), has attracted considerable attention in recent months. Writing just after the Gulf War, Huntington analyzed the competing ideologies of our time and drew particular attention to the clash between Islam and the West. His concern has obvious merit, although critics have made a crucial point that Islam is no monolith. There are clashes within Islamic civilization itself.

What may emerge as the most significant factor in the current shape of our world, then, is not the clash between Islam and the West. It is, instead, the clash between Muslims as they try to define their faith for the 21st century. Islam clearly does not speak with one voice. It shows nearly as much diversity as does Christianity (see "A Many Splintered Thing"). The debate within Islam will be protracted, regardless of how long military campaigns continue against any Islamist movement.

Troubles in Palestine
The Palestinian question has also fueled the growth of Islamic militancy. Tensions in Palestine between Muslims and Jews date back to the first wave of Jewish immigrants in the late 1800s. The British government's 1917 Balfour Declaration heightened Arab unrest, as did the United Nations' support for a Jewish state 30 years later, leading to the formation of the State of Israel in May 1948.

Five wars between Arabs and Jews since Israel's formation create the context for modern Muslim-Jewish hostilities. These tensions increased with the rise of the first Intifadah ("uprising") in 1987, and a second Intifadah in 2000, following the breakdown of talks at Camp David between Yasser Arafat and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak. Islamic militant groups like Hamas and Hizbollah call for an armed jihad against Israel. Many Palestinian Muslims celebrate the attack on America but also claim it was really the work of the CIA and Israel's Mossad.

In the mix of all this turmoil is the seemingly endless cycle of violence in Israel and Palestine. Here are just five examples of terrorist acts against Israelis in the year before September 11:

August 12—A suicide bombing at a café in Kiryat Motzkin wounded 21.

August 9—A bombing at a pizza place in Jerusalem killed 15, including 6 children, and injured 80.

June 1—A Palestinian suicide bomber associated with Hamas detonated an explosive belt that injured 120 and killed 20 at a nightclub in Tel Aviv.

May 9—Two 14-year-old Jewish boys were stoned to death at a cave near their small town of Tekoa, in the West Bank.

February 14—A Palestinian bus driver plowed into a crowd near Tel-Aviv, killing 8.

On the other hand, writers as diverse as Noam Chomsky, Hans Küng, Michael Lerner, Edward Said, and David Grossman (author of The Yellow Wind) argue for recognizing injustices done against Palestinians by Israel. They also argue for stronger American complaints against Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Gaza. In the last 15 years, the case for a Palestinian state has grown more popular among moderate Jews and many analysts sympathetic to Israel.

"With or without Islamic fundamentalism, with or without Arab terrorism, there is no justification whatsoever for the lasting occupation and suppression of the Palestinian people by Israel," Amos Oz wrote in a New York Times editorial. "We have no right to deny Palestinians their natural right to self-determination . …Two huge oceans could not shelter America from terrorism; the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza by Israel has not made Israel secure—on the contrary, it makes our self-defense much harder and more complicated. The sooner this occupation ends, the better it will be for Palestinians and Israelis alike."

Human Rights Record
Beyond the issue of Palestine lies another concern. Is Islam fundamentally opposed to human rights by its inherently theocratic thrust? Why do Muslim countries have such deplorable records on human rights? Data made available by Freedom House, an organization that monitors political and civil rights in every country of the world, supports this assertion. Of the 41 countries whose population is at least 70 percent Muslim, 26 are considered not free, and 13 are partly free. Only two are free—meaning they protect political and civil rights as defined by the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights.

We can express the abuse of human rights in Muslim countries in other ways. Why is it that the government of Saudi Arabia welcomed Allied Forces to free Kuwait but forbids entry of non-Muslims to its country? Western governments allow Muslims to talk freely about their faith. Why can't Christians do the same in many Muslim countries? Muslims rightfully express concern about the denial of liberties to Palestinians. But are the rights of Jews protected in Indonesia? Are Hindus free in Pakistan?

Human beings are being traded as slaves in Sudan, a fact documented in Paul Marshall's Their Blood Cries Out. Has the government in Khartoum been flooded with protests from every corner of the Muslim world? Likewise, no one can deny the lack of women's rights under Islam, regardless of Muslim apologists' passion to the contrary. The widespread practice of female genital mutilation in Muslim countries alone signals the reality of women's oppression. Women are forbidden even to drive a car in Saudi Arabia.

Until they were freed suddenly in mid-November, eight expatriate Christians were on trial in Afghanistan on charges of Christian evangelism. Followers of Jesus in many Muslim countries can be put to death for sharing what they believe. It would be wonderful to know that the Muslim leaders who joined President Bush in public to express solidarity against Osama bin Laden were already on record as condemning the persecution of these Christians in Afghanistan. If not, why not?

In 1999 I had lunch with an American whose identity I must conceal lest I place his life in renewed danger. Over our meal, he told me of a simple but life-altering fact. A few years earlier, he realized that he no longer believed in Islam, and he abandoned his faith. As a result, he received death threats—not in Sudan, or Libya, or Iraq, but in the United States. Are American Muslim leaders disturbed that members of their communities threaten former Muslims with death? Do American Muslims long for adoption of Shari'ah law, which would mandate that Muslims who abandon their faith be put to death?

Quote:

"to the idiot that wrote.

"And for some reason their women are perhaps the most loyal women on earth to their men..."

what a f**king retard! Would you be loyal if every now and again when you saw one of the women in your village that committed adultery get stoned to death!!?? "


Reply:

The only "idiot" is you, testament in your use of the word "village." Many Muslims do live in metropolitan cities including in the West. You can find young Muslim women in New York, London, Berlin, Paris, Milan or in Sydney, Austraila, they are in Bangkok to Hong Kong. Islam is quite cosmopolitan. Granted it doesn't produce the greatest fashion in the world but that is another matter .

Anyways there seems apparent to be more young women in Islam - even right in the US - at the tender ages of 17, 23, 27, 34 whom express greater fidelity to Islam and Islamic men than you will see in anything of the Catholic female or secular female world. These young women are adament that Allah is one, that Muhammed is his prophet, and they are the mothers, sisters, daughters, and wives of the single most greatest men, religion, culture and people on earth.

My point is for the great majority of them their motivation is not fear, but seemingly, belief, accountability, responsibility, and f**kin-A loyalty.

"Reply:

The only "idiot" is you, testament in your use of the word "village." Many Muslims do live in metropolitan cities including in the West. You can find young Muslim women in New York, London, Berlin, Paris, Milan or in Sydney, Austraila, they are in Bangkok to Hong Kong. Islam is quite cosmopolitan. Granted it doesn't produce the greatest fashion in the world but that is another matter .

Anyways there seems apparent to be more young women in Islam - even right in the US - at the tender ages of 17, 23, 27, 34 whom express greater fidelity to Islam and Islamic men than you will see in anything of the Catholic female or secular female world. These young women are adament that Allah is one, that Muhammed is his prophet, and they are the mothers, sisters, daughters, and wives of the single most greatest men, religion, culture and people on earth.

My point is for the great majority of them their motivation is not fear, but seemingly, belief, accountability, responsibility, and f**kin-A loyalty."

This is my first quote on this thread. But I've been on other threads, and I am so tired of this "quote" "reply" poster. He/she is an academic featherweight at best, although the word academic shouldn't even be used to describe this person: he/she argues benign things that he/she takes completely out of context and then reaches obvious, politically correct conclusions. Reading his/her posts is not only a waste of time, it actually makes you dumber.

yeah, islam is a great religion....should we start quoting the Qur'an?

And, what about the vast majority of muslims who certainly are not living "cosmopolitan" lives??

So, you obviously condone this religion and their practices.

Islam condones violence, condones the killing of "infidels", is 100% discriminatory against women, but the men can f**k just about anyone they want, and have 4 wives no less....com e on man....you're a f**king idiot.

Beating wives over insults “acceptable” in Jordan
(AFP)

31 May 2006



AMMAN - Almost 50 per cent of Jordanians find it acceptable for a man to strike his wife is she insults him, according to a survey published on Wednesday.


“There is widespread acceptance of domestic violence by husbands towards wives,” said the 2005 Communication Partnership for Family Health (CPFH) Baseline Survey, published on the CPFH website.

“Respondents were asked whether a husband is justified in hitting or beating his wife in certain situations that might lead him to become angry,” it said.

“Nearly half of all respondents, regardless of age or marital status, report that it is acceptable for a husband to hit or beat his wife if she insults him,” the survey found.

Around 1,847 households were surveyed from July to September 2005 for the study which was funded by the US Agency for International Development (USAID) with the help of Jordan’s health ministry and John Hopkins University.

The survey revealed that 53.7 per cent of unmarried female youths aged between 15-24 agreed that a man is justified in beating his wife if she “insults him”, compared to 39.6 per cent of unmarried male youths.

Likewise more married women, 45.8 per cent, compared to 44.3 per cent of married men, accepted the notion that a man could beat his wife is she insulted him.

Some 76.2 per cent of unmarried female youths also found beatings acceptable if a woman is unfaithful to her husband, compared to 77 per cent of married women, 52.8 per cent of married men and 68.7 per cent of unmarried male youths.

Only 5.7 per cent of married women agreed beatings were acceptable for burning the food, compared to 2.8 per cent of unmarried men.

somebdoy here said: "I have much admiration for Islamic women. Not because of their modesty in dress and more submissive social role, because I'm quite the fan of the Brazilian bikini and tight jeans , as well I like women sharing a social and sexual equality with me. However - at least with Catholic women and secular women - they are some of the most untrust worthy women on the face of the planet. Their own children in their womb can't trust them to bring them to birth. They cheat, lie, thieve, conspire to murder, manipulate, always want more more more, and will never take an inch of responsibility for any thing. "

s/he starts talking about the mulsim women. Then s/he starts saying about the brazilian bikini and jeans, ok an example in form of digression.Then continues saying "they" are the most untrustworthy women on the face of the planet... Who they? the muslim or hte brazilian women. As for all I have seen here brazilian women are not very liked much among this site readers, so I can understand it is the brazilian women? At the very least this fragment lacks coesion...

ops, correction above he he he starts ...

Quote:

"somebdoy here said: "I have much admiration for Islamic women. Not because of their modesty in dress and more submissive social role, because I'm quite the fan of the Brazilian bikini and tight jeans , as well I like women sharing a social and sexual equality with me. However - at least with Catholic women and secular women - they are some of the most untrust worthy women on the face of the planet. Their own children in their womb can't trust them to bring them to birth. They cheat, lie, thieve, conspire to murder, manipulate, always want more more more, and will never take an inch of responsibility for any thing. "

s/he starts talking about the mulsim women. Then s/he starts saying about the brazilian bikini and jeans, ok an example in form of digression.Then continues saying "they" are the most untrustworthy women on the face of the planet... Who they? the muslim or hte brazilian women. As for all I have seen here brazilian women are not very liked much among this site readers, so I can understand it is the brazilian women? At the very least this fragment lacks coesion..."


Reply:

Sorry, I didn't write that very well, it doesn't read very clearly.

I was trying to express that I like Brazilian secular culture - at least from what I see of it from tv and magazines - but at the sametime I have great admiration for Islamic women, because of their amazing fidelity, even though I'm not a fan of many of the dress fashions in the Islamic world, nor of certain social status to which women in Islamic societies are held per marriage standards.

My negative comments about Catholic women and secular women is not meant to be specific to Brazil. I was actually imagining much more of the United States and U.S. Catholic and U.S. secular women with my negative comments. However even though I wasn't really thinking about Brazilian women, they may be lesser or greater than U.S. women in negative attributes, I don't know as I've never been to Brazil. I just admire Brazilian people from what I read and know of Brazil.

But from my understanding abortion is outlawed in Brazil except in cases such as rape. Which seems perfectly logical to me. By contrast, U.S. Catholic women wack (abort) their children at the abortion clinics more than any other group of women in the U.S. (at least religion wise). However this percentage might change since so many Mexican women are coming into the U.S. and Mexican women by-in-large believe in giving birth to their children.

In the U.S. Muslim women have requested a number of things adapt their ideas of modesty and separation of the genders from a wall being erected where women do aerobics at a fitness center so the male members of the club can't see them, to Islamic girls basketball teams playing in center leagues only if the male audience is banned - also keeping the scarfs doned over their heads while they play. Some things, like the erection of the wall in the fitness center, some institutions in the U.S. have ceded too, in other cases certain U.S. institutions have not. - But this demonstrates Islamic women's fidelity to their religion and how they have no enimity towards their Islamic men. By contrast the same can not be said of Catholic or secular women and Catholic men and secular men request far less burdens or attributes of responsibility on Catholic or secular women.

The Islamic woman reminds me of diligint and faithful soldier held behind enemy lines as a POW. The Catholic and secular woman reminds me of a spoiled brat member of some European or Thai monarchy who's interest and cultural politics is all self involved, and all ways wants more with less personal accountability, even after their ass is kissed a million times.

Thks! that was a relief. A relief and a clarification.

Thks! that was a relief. A relief and a clarification.

quote:

"The Islamic woman reminds me of diligint and faithful soldier held behind enemy lines as a POW."

LOL...I can tell you're not married, never even have came close...and if you're in the states, I doubt that you will ever be.

Some of you people need help.

Wasn't too long ago that television news channel presented the execution of a mother during the halftime of a Afgan soccer game. Convicted by a group of "Muslim legal scholars", of adultery. Shot her right in the back of the head with an AK-47. Couldn't miss at that range. If I were a young Muslinm girl, I'd probably be the most loyal little bitch you could ever imagine! Maybe the Muslims are right; might make the average Brazilian girl a bit more respectful.

Quote:

"LOL...I can tell you're not married, never even have came close...and if you're in the states, I doubt that you will ever be.

Some of you people need help."


Reply:

Plenty of Islamic women coming to the United States and Islam will eventually be the largest or second largest religion in the United States. Partially thanks to the U.S. own anti-Christian rethoric and pro Muslim campaigns. Just like Spain was once tranformed by Islam so to shall the United States. That is, unless the jihadist doesn't break its neck first or make it drain its economy.

And if your secular what value do you place on marriage anyways? Remember you people (assuming you're secular) are then ones that say it doesn't matter one damn, as the U.S. divorce rates show (what is it something like 50% or more). So appealing to whether I've been married or not in light of my admiration of Muslim women spoken in flowery prose really doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

I place high value on loyalty. I place it above money, looks, and glitter and shine. As such, in that degree, I am a complete oddity in U.S. society. But fidelity doesn't escape my notice, even in something as exotic and perfumed as feminine Islam.

If her men are the swords and barreling chests, then her women are the fine, silk, oriental fans. The yin and yang of complimentary degrees. Even so her women are like tigers when cornered to protect her young and what is holy and sacred to theirs: their religion, their culture, their people and fame.

Can a Catholic woman or secular woman in todays age say the same? I think not. At least not in the U.S. The society of the United States grants 30 year old women less responsibility for the results of her sexual promiscuity than it does a 15 year old boy. Yet that same society says 15 years olf girls are psychologically more mature than 15 year old boys, which then would logically stand to reason that a 30 year old woman should be mega years a head of a 15 year old boy in psychological maturity. Yet only the 15 year old boy is told to "be a man" and accept responsibility for his sexual activity if a baby is produced. The 30 year old woman can be a porn star and have 4 or 5 abortions and always walk away from any responsibility for her sexual activity. They can lie, murder, commit adualtry and blame it on the man or PMS and be cleared of accountability and responsibility. They can be encoraged in sports, education, military action, by Catholic or secular men and they will still complain they Catholic or secular men are scrwing them over and screwing them over 10 times as much as Muslim men would.

Like I said I'm not to fond of the social status, and dress fashion of Muslim women. But I admire their fidelity and I also admire Brazil. So perhaps Brazil can be a meeting ground where the best of secular women and the best of Islamic women merge, merge into the best of both worlds.

[shrug] It's a nice thought at least.

Partly the divorce rate in the USA is higher than say, Saudi Arabia, is because: women in the USA are not confined to their husband's house, have jobs, money, are allowed to drive a car, and can leave their husband if they're no longer happy (you DUMB f**k).

A low divorce rate does not necessarily indicate happiness: it indicates imprisonment! A Saudi woman is owned by her husband. She is a slave. Here in the USA I left my first marriage because my husband treated me bad... now I am dating a man who makes me very happy! Yet on your statistic sheet I simply show up as "1 divorce" and the poor Saudi woman shows up as "1 marriage". Get your head around it!

Imagine a beautiful Brasilian beach... a group of girls in bikinis and men in shorts are kicking a football around, while in the background a girl is swimming with her friends.

Does this image make you nauseous? Then move to the middle eastern s**thole of your choice where this would be FORBIDDEN: Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Jordan, Egypt...Brasil is not the country for you!

Now imagine a beautiful Brasilian beach... a group of girls, dressed in black burkhas up to their eyeballs, are kicking a football around in an enclosed area that says NO MEN ALLOWED, while their "chaperones" lounge nearby.

If this image makes you want to vomit in your breakfast cereal, do whatever you can to educate your family and friends about what Islamic law and culture will do to your country if you allow it to. Tell your politicians that you want low limits set on the number of immigrants allowed from Islamic countries. When they come to put up the "NO MEN ALLOWED" sign, fight them.

Am I being extreme? Yes, this is an extreme example so the choice is clear in your mind. In reality, they will try to do it slowly, and they will lie. In Michigan, they pressured the gyms to seperate men and women. Then it will be no men at women sports games. Then it will be no desecration of the Quran allowed. Slowly, slowly they will implement Islamic law... so you hardly notice... like a frog in a pot of water:

http://www.muhammadmuhammad.com/cartoons/howtoboilafrog2.jpg

Do I advocate violence? NO. This is a cultural war, and when Islam is exposed for what it is, anyone with a sense of morality will chose against it.

http://www.muhammadmuhammad.com/

quote:

"I place high value on loyalty. I place it above money, looks, and glitter and shine."

Well then, are muslim men loyal to their wives?

If "loyalty" is your cup of tea, then you certainly can't believe that having four wives is being "loyal" to each and every one of them.

Now let's hear your sick deluted justification of this....

does any other man see anything messed up with the Islamic law that says a Muslim man can marry a woman of another religion, but a Muslim woman can only marry a Muslim man? anything to expand the number of Muslims... at the expense of every other man! that is f**ked up and shows just one more example of how unfair to non-Muslims their society is.

... jealousy of the US...

Good joke. !!!
Tell us another.

Does a 18-year old American guy want to go war in Iraq?

Did your president want to go to Vietnam?

Good joke. Jealousy of the US.
Good clown you are.
Democracy in the US? HAHA

The American women - Mariah Carey, Winona, Jolie, Maddona, Sprink break, porno on www, so pure girls!!!

Tell us another joke.

Help me understand the Islamic mind? Is it all about men's natural superiority over women and the divorce rate? Is that all it has to offer? I must really be confused? I married my wife because she had a fantastic body, [which I adore looking at!], [God bless the Brazilian thong!],was a great cook, had a better college education than me, at the time made more money, wanted four kids, and flew an airplane better than me. 30 years later, we're still happily married.
If I wanted to be the life and death king of my castle, I'd of gotten myself a few dogs.
Hey, here's a new idea! Rather than marry a woman and subjugate her, marry a woman who you see as an equal! Is that possible to do as an Islamist? Do Muslims ever allow their women to get on top?

Just wondering. In Muslim countries, are women ever allowed to own their own handguns? Or is that right stripped away from them when they are married?

quote;

"... jealousy of the US...

Good joke. !!!
Tell us another.

Does a 18-year old American guy want to go war in Iraq?

Did your president want to go to Vietnam?

Good joke. Jealousy of the US.
Good clown you are.
Democracy in the US? HAHA

The American women - Mariah Carey, Winona, Jolie, Maddona, Sprink break, porno on www, so pure girls!!!

Tell us another joke."

Well then tell us, why do masses whine about the U.S.?

Why is it the #1 destination for people around the world to want to migrate to?

And please, you throw out the names of a half a dozen american bimbo women....do you really want to start throwing those stones?? Especially if you're brazilian!

At least the masses of american women do have formal education, and the opportunity of upward mobility....on their own!

We don't have MILLIONS that are subjected to prostituting themselves because its their only way out of a life of misery....LOL.

I read that many young muslim males forming a couple does not have the habit of marrying more than one woman nowadays. Perhaps you people could find this information in an updated magazine focusing this facet of Islam. I’ve read this is considered by the progressist youth an ancient habit and it is more and more uncommon among many of those youths I think that happens in Turkey more. These countries are assimilating a democratic culture more than the leaders desire. Watch the many arab films available and you’ll see. The idea of great faithfulness and honor muslim women have for their husbands and religion is a positive feature of this east culture, why not see the bright side as well?

Quote:

"Partly the divorce rate in the USA is higher than say, Saudi Arabia, is because: women in the USA are not confined to their husband's house, have jobs, money, are allowed to drive a car, and can leave their husband if they're no longer happy (you DUMB f**k).

A low divorce rate does not necessarily indicate happiness: it indicates imprisonment! A Saudi woman is owned by her husband. She is a slave. Here in the USA I left my first marriage because my husband treated me bad... now I am dating a man who makes me very happy! Yet on your statistic sheet I simply show up as "1 divorce" and the poor Saudi woman shows up as "1 marriage". Get your head around it!"


Reply:

#1: All the Islamic world is not Saudi Arabia. The Islamic world is also made up of such places and regions as Turkey a the UAE. And the U.S. divorce rate is not just higher than Saudi Arabia it is to my understanding the highest in the world, along with over half the men in the U.S. supposedly statistically cheating on their wives, and half or roughly half the married women in the U.S. cheating on their husbands.

#2: I never argued "marriage" equals happiness. I was responding to the poster who in diction and tone implied a position of happiness and moral and social superiority as well as high esteem in all those who reside in the institution of marriage. Thus in my response to that poster I argued it is illogical and hypocritical for a secular person to reteat in their argument to the implied virtues of marriage and the implied tone that marriage is a causation or even effect of superior intellect, personality, and morals. In essence I'm saying one does not have to be married or have been married to notice the hypocracy and less than noble intentions and spirit prevailing amongst secular women in the U.S. Likewise one does not have to be married or have been married to recognize all that is noble in feminine Islam.

#3: It was the secular world in the U.S. and especially secular women in the U.S. repeatedly ranting that Christianity was so brutal, repressive, and never respecting of them or humanity as the holy light of Islam was. That Islam was just misunderstood and actually favored its women in protection, praise, and self worth more than the hypocritical Christian men did - or even secular U.S. men. I use to be at one time very secular in my late teens and early 20's. Then I was a very devote Catholic at onetime. Now I'm not even Muslim (I suppose since I have no particular religion I'm secular) at least thus far I have not converted or accepted that faith, but I side with Islam moved by their collective bravery, and *consitency*, and most especially her women perfumed in fidelity.

#4: The Christian Episcopal Church has for years ordained females to their clergy ranks, just the other day the Episcopal Church elected a woman to be the presiding Bishop to lead its Church. This is what secular women and Catholic women have been ranting for for so long right? And since Catholic women say Jesus is overated in respect, that it doesn't matter what Christian Church you belong to they are all the same and equal, the it would stand to reason that the Episcopal Church should be the fastest growing Church in the United States, or at least now skyrocket as the fastest growing Church and religion. What I'm saying is, Mormonism and Islam should cease to be the fastest growing religion in the U.S. due especially to this new appointment of a woman to lead the 77 million Episcopal Church. -- Unless of course all the ranting and demonizing of Christian men and secular U.S. men was just emotional rhetoric of hypocracy, bigotry, and hate.

You all made your bed, now sleep in it.

#5: Secular U.S. has lost all credibility with me as well as Catholic women in general. One can rant all they want to about Brazil but at least Brazil shows some logical consitency to their laws and opinions. Unlike the U.S. whom on one hand boasts a woman's "choice" of her body trumps all other factors and responsibilities or accountabilities thus granting her legal right to abort on demand. Yet U.S. laws then turn around and say a woman doesn't have the "choice" over her body to prostitute if she wants. Just as the U.S. courts hold the right to incarcerate heroin users if they show up in court with heroine testing positive in their body system. These same U.S. laws and socio-political culture will incarcerate a 30 year old woman for rape if she is found guilty of having sex with a 15 year old boy, and then turn around and make the 15 year old boy whom the courts classify as a rape victim, financially responsible for his own rape - per child support payments - if a child is produced and the 30 year old *chooses* to give birth to the child.

Hypocracy and inconsitencies.

Quote:

"Now imagine a beautiful Brasilian beach... a group of girls, dressed in black burkhas up to their eyeballs, are kicking a football around in an enclosed area that says NO MEN ALLOWED, while their "chaperones" lounge nearby."


Reply:

Yeah that would be f**ked up. While I admire Islamic women I want Brazil to remain secular, just open and tolerant. I would volunteer to fight in Brazil against any erection of laws to require forced wearing of burkkas. But I suspect something like that would not happen, the Brazilians are reasonable enough - so far as I know - to incorporate Islam into the hearth of their society while retaining the consitency of her secular values and tolerance. I suspect Islamic women do and would by-in-large in Brazil dress Western like Islamic women of Turkey often do.

Yes, you are correct! Thank God!

Quote:

"Help me understand the Islamic mind? Is it all about men's natural superiority over women and the divorce rate? Is that all it has to offer? I must really be confused? I married my wife because she had a fantastic body, [which I adore looking at!], [God bless the Brazilian thong!],was a great cook, had a better college education than me, at the time made more money, wanted four kids, and flew an airplane better than me. 30 years later, we're still happily married.
If I wanted to be the life and death king of my castle, I'd of gotten myself a few dogs.
Hey, here's a new idea! Rather than marry a woman and subjugate her, marry a woman who you see as an equal! Is that possible to do as an Islamist? Do Muslims ever allow their women to get on top?"


Reply:

Actually though it may not seem it. I'm an admirer of the general culture being developed by a *new feminist women* in the U.S. exemplified in the U.S. by the "Suicide Girls" @ suicidegirls.com.

These young ladies, though largely boasting Islam as more tolerant and more fair towards women than Christianity, at least have *more* consitency to their *equality* views than your typical femininst and quoted "liberals" that have reigned for decades.

"Quote:

"Help me understand the Islamic mind? Is it all about men's natural superiority over women and the divorce rate? Is that all it has to offer? I must really be confused? I married my wife because she had a fantastic body, [which I adore looking at!], [God bless the Brazilian thong!],was a great cook, had a better college education than me, at the time made more money, wanted four kids, and flew an airplane better than me. 30 years later, we're still happily married.
If I wanted to be the life and death king of my castle, I'd of gotten myself a few dogs.
Hey, here's a new idea! Rather than marry a woman and subjugate her, marry a woman who you see as an equal! Is that possible to do as an Islamist? Do Muslims ever allow their women to get on top?"


Reply:

Actually though it may not seem it. I'm an admirer of the general culture being developed by a *new feminist women* in the U.S. exemplified in the U.S. by the "Suicide Girls" @ suicidegirls.com.

These young ladies, though largely boasting Islam as more tolerant and more fair towards women than Christianity, at least have *more* consitency to their *equality* views than your typical femininst and quoted "liberals" that have reigned for decades."


This is my second quote on this thread. I've been on other threads, and I am so tired of this "quote" "reply" poster. He/she is an academic featherweight at best, although the word academic shouldn't even be used to describe this person: he/she argues benign things that he/she takes completely out of context and then reaches obvious, politically correct conclusions. Reading his/her posts is not only a waste of time, it actually makes you dumber.

Quote:

"This is my second quote on this thread. I've been on other threads, and I am so tired of this "quote" "reply" poster. He/she is an academic featherweight at best, although the word academic shouldn't even be used to describe this person: he/she argues benign things that he/she takes completely out of context and then reaches obvious, politically correct conclusions. Reading his/her posts is not only a waste of time, it actually makes you dumber."


Reply:

Ah the old ad hominem attack, inconjunction with a reliance on persuasive argument. Must mean my posts are very effective.

Interesting you keep reading my posts and feel the need to reply to them or allude to them. Keep reading and keep responding! Seethe inside.

"Reply:

Ah the old ad hominem attack, inconjunction with a reliance on persuasive argument. Must mean my posts are very effective.

Interesting you keep reading my posts and feel the need to reply to them or allude to them. Keep reading and keep responding! Seethe inside. "

This is my third post on this thread. I've been on other threads, and I am so tired of this "quote" "reply" poster. He/she is an academic featherweight at best, although the word academic shouldn't even be used to describe this person: he/she argues benign things that he/she takes completely out of context and then reaches obvious, politically correct conclusions. Reading his/her posts is not only a waste of time, it actually makes you dumber.

Yes, you can cut and paste. Doesn't it get dull repeating over and over the same smart conclusions you get to reach? It is only when people tell you what you don’t like that you have this insistent pattern or it happens all time? It is easy to say when it is you the repetitive poster cuz you invariably maintain your racist, xenophobic, intolerant views.

We never had religious problem and we live in peace. We have Koran and Bible inside home.

i use to be a muslim and i abandoned the religion at the age of 14, I have studued many religions and came to the conclusion that all the religions are big fraud, religious people of any faith are dangerous and harmfull they are all bunch of psychopaths,korn bible and other books they are all crap full of bulls**t..noone need religion

enjoying the same privileges as a muslim in a non-muslim country?

Yes/No?

Extremist Christian : May God curse you

Extremist Muslim : In the name of Allah, I slit your throat

Blast!

The answer to this question will throw some light

Is Mohammed (who killed thousands of Jews and Christians, who had more than 15 wives, one of them as young as 9 yrs) is a role model for a you?

Heaven is a place where a suicide-bomber gets 800 virgins and they please him with sex, wine etc.

For women, they have no job bu to serve men

Mohammed did not kill thousands of jews or christians and neither did he have 15 wifes and neither was one of his wifes 9 years old.

heaven is not a place where a suicide bomber gets 800 virgins we know it is easy to slander people but at least have some facts and not not act on your fantasies,defending your home and nation is not a crime but a duty as long as israel occupies palestine and america occupies iraq the people of those countries have the right to fight back by all means neccesarry.

It's not 800 virgins but more like 75 - come on get the facts straight here will ya . . .

Islam along with all religions are for weak-minded losers!!

Cripes! Is Islam all about sex! Four wives! 50, 75, 800 virgins!
Moslims worry about North and South American promicuity, and then have four wives? At the same time, they don't want their wives to excite them so they force their women to remain covered at all times? Are Moslim women dressed when they have sex? Surely Islam has some redeeming features.
Something else, why must the free exchange of ideas concerning the Moslem, Jewish, and Christian religions always take place in any country rather than a Moslem country? What are the Moslims worried about?
If Islam is so wonderful, invite us over to an Islamic country and let us see, firsthand, your intellectual and spiritual freedoms, the lack of oppression of minorities and women, and a religiously principaled division of wealth. I want to succeed in this world. If Islam offers anything better than the tripe I was raised in, please show me an example. I'm serious. I'd love to enhance the living experience of my family, but the Moslim fascination with sex is almost too much.

I wrote the article that triggered all these comments. I fear readers have lost the message of my article, which is raising alram at the way political islam is flexing its muscles.
.....poalo bassi

Anyone who believes religion has a core of goodness and respect for others is hopelessly misguided. Religion teaches us about our differences not our similarities. Is this really a way to live? Think for yourself. Don’t let religion think for you. If you’re frustrated go on and masturbate. Don’t beat your women. The world will be a better place to live if everyone had great sex, masturbated regularly, and paid no attention to religion.

Totally agree with you re. masturbation. Know what the difference is between an egg and jerking off? You can beat an egg!

Don´t beat women! Beat your meat!

Muslims are not obsessed with sex it is the so called western christain nations who are sex obsessed to the point that to sell car engine oil they have to show a half naked women.

the average western christian will have sex with 30 to 40 diffrent people in their life time, 95 per cent of all muslims have one wife yet we hear this constant propaganda about 4 wives, when in reality it is the western christain who sex crazed to the point that 60 to 70 per cent of married people have affairs.

we know it is easy to point fingers at others but when you do that 3 are pointing back at your self.

the biggest whore houses and pornography productions are in the western christain nations and nit in muslim nations, so who is sex obsessed.

Average Western Christian have sex with 30 to 40 different people in their lifetimes? Sounds wonderful! What country is this? Where to go to enjoy such pleasure?

Because the average western Christian is having so much sex, Muslims by the millions are immigrating to western countries! If that is true, why torture yourselves and your family by living in such a horrible environment. Muslins are preoccupied by sex, that's why.

Even though western nations do have Christian tradition that doesn’t mean they will follow its ideas!

“Muslims are not obsessed with sex it is the so called western christain nations who are sex obsessed to the point that to sell car engine oil they have to show a half naked women.

the average western christian will have sex with 30 to 40 diffrent people in their life time, 95 per cent of all muslims have one wife yet we hear this constant propaganda about 4 wives, when in reality it is the western christain who sex crazed to the point that 60 to 70 per cent of married people have affairs.

we know it is easy to point fingers at others but when you do that 3 are pointing back at your self.

the biggest whore houses and pornography productions are in the western christain nations and nit in muslim nations, so who is sex obsessed.”

Even though western nations do have Christian tradition that doesn’t mean they will follow its ideas. With different meaning but to picture an example, if a person was born in a specific learning environment s/he may be able, some more others less, to bypass her/his destiny (or behaviorism). Every fair criticism towards fake christianism can be found in the same bible. Catholics seem to fail to see that when it comes to read one of the first directions in the bible to not possess saints or idols they seem to jump it. There’s an excerpt of it that appears to be the voice of god saying that he prefers individuals who are “cold”, e.g. not possessing a religion than “medium hot” people that possess the appearances of one. I guess that the fact that most countries inherit their antecessors tradition doesn’t make them follow it.

Okay, the Christians have many problems to follow their creed, but the Islamic attempt to kill the Pope was just target practice?

Your joke didn’t make much sense. But funny nonetheless. Try this;

Why is it that when you beat an egg they call it an omelet, but when you beat your meat they call it a mortal sin?

It’s a tough world out there. Too many choices to make. Every f**ken day something new comes up. Take this morning for example. I hade to decide whether to beat the s**t out of someone or commit a mortal sin. I decided I can live with mortal sin.

Make love not war, even if it’s with yourself!

"the average western christian will have sex with 30 to 40 diffrent people in their life time, 95 per cent of all muslims have one wife yet we hear this constant propaganda about 4 wives, when in reality it is the western christain who sex crazed to the point that 60 to 70 per cent of married people have affairs."

Yes we all know what happens to Muslim women if they are caught being unfaithful don't we?? Off with their head - that's if they are lucky. If not they will get buried up to their necks and stoned to death !!! f**kING SAVAGES!!!

Of course Muslim men are "pigs" just like western men they just like to hide behind their hypocritical morality while f**king blonde prostitutes with fake tits. Anyone remember where those hijackers were on the night of Sept. 10, 2001? That's right - in a strip club drinking alcohol. DEATH TO ISLAM AND ALL RELIGIONS!!!!

There have been instances in Muslim states where women are beaten because “she allowed herself to be raped”. Beaten by her brothers and other male relatives for being violated… beaten for being a woman.

Quote from above;
“Of course Muslim men are "pigs" just like western men they just like to hide behind their hypocritical morality while f**king blonde prostitutes with fake tits. Anyone remember where those hijackers were on the night of Sept. 10, 2001? That's right - in a strip club drinking alcohol. DEATH TO ISLAM AND ALL RELIGIONS!!!!”

My response;
Muslims don’t eat pork because there’s already enough pig in them to last a thousand lifetimes.

Right on!! "DEATH TO ISLAM AND ALL RELIGIONS!!!!”

Make love not war, even if it’s with yourself!

Can a person or an inventor be a religious dogma? If people invented dogmas to manipulate others that becomes clear after some time. No one should follow uncontested trues.

Seriously, if the millions of Islamists moving to Brazil are finding the country so lacking, why move there. If I lived in a religious paradise, I'd be very hard pressed to leave it. Is their movings something of a joke? Are the countries they are leaving not paradises? And if they are not telling the truth, and the Islamic paradises really do have problems, why change Brazil to resembles the disaster they are leaving? And what is it about Brazil and its decadance that they find so attractive? So about the mis-spellings. I write in a hurry.

"trues".

no one is moving to Brazil. Lebanon descendents, for example, are old immigrants in São Paulo. They may be spreading more knowledge of their culture like the seicho-no-ie, the budists and other creeds do.

Still, Brazil is attractive to Arabs. 9,000,000 of Lebanese background, and 3 million Arabs from other countries. Contrast America with 1.5 million Arabs? I'd think the Arabs would like America better, but who cares. Sooner or later we will all be just earthlings, tired of ourselves and completely confused as to who we are, and glowing from radiation poisoning.

"Seriously, if the millions of Islamists moving to Brazil are finding the country so lacking, why move there. If I lived in a religious paradise, I'd be very hard pressed to leave it. Is their movings something of a joke? Are the countries they are leaving not paradises? And if they are not telling the truth, and the Islamic paradises really do have problems, why change Brazil to resembles the disaster they are leaving? And what is it about Brazil and its decadance that they find so attractive? So about the mis-spellings. I write in a hurry."

The fact of the matter is that most Muslims, like all human beings, are super f**king hypocrites. This is the one tie that binds all humans together!! They know they are caught in a dead-end religion, like all religions, and they know that they are going to be increasingly marginalized for adhering to the same dumpster-style religion that advocates killing innocent children with explosive vests.

If it isn't obvious that Muslims are increasingly deranged and sick motherf**kers than I don't know what will prove that to you. Say what you will but filming some psychopath chanting "Allahu Akbar" over and over again while they saw off someone's head with a dull knife makes them some sick f**kERS!!

These guys would do well to get laid and relieve some of that sexual frustration and penis-size angst they suffer but their own women know they are scum and don't put out for them and if they do they could just as easily be accused of being a whore and subsequently stoned to death or burned with acid by their brothers, fathers or even the neighbor kid next door so long as it's a male . . .

These people know their lives are s**t but they want to remain proud even in the face of superior technology, equality and liberty they find in other countries. They know their leaders are psychopaths, like US and European leaders, but they also have unprecedented liberty in Europe and the US. They hate to admit that they can practice Sunni Islam without fear of being beheaded by some black robed s**t-for-brains sporting a ski mask and hack saw. They hate you for all that you have and all they want. They hate you because they have to come to your country to get the rights they brag about having in their own god forsaken desert hell but know they don't. f**k ISLAM!! DEATH TO ISLAM AND ALL RELIGION!!!

ALLAH IS DEAD!! Muhammed is a PIG f**kER!!!

your hatred for muslims is so deep that your verbal diahorea knows no bounds, muslim women are not the only ones who get killed for adultery muslim men get killed for adultery too.

maybe you like to prostitute your wife but i dont think muslims like to prostitute their wives.

"Why is it that when you beat an egg they call it an omelet, but when you beat your meat they call it a mortal sin?"

human beings have more value than eggs. Humans have dignity, have their emotional and mind lives. Eggs are material organisms, let's say this way. Humans are material and spiritual creatures. the mortal sin you refered of personal physical pleasure I think the idea is more spiritual “death” because there’s an adhesion to the material, the instincts than to the logical or emotional part.
Then i would say, you tend to one side or the other you become a mechanical being without no emotional life. All you see is grey and there can be no real happiness.

verbal diahorea?

Please tell me you're Brazilian . . . Is that the new form of virulent DIAHOREA from Japan??

"maybe you like to prostitute your wife but i dont think muslims like to prostitute their wives."

Wow that sounded strangely 4th grade - I know you are but what am I. Neener, Neener, Neener . . .

hey, I'm not the guy who wrote verbal diahorea. i'm the third party. Just curious why new diahorea from Japan?

cultural differences are obstacles. i thought you're saying a brazilian who immigrated to Japan brought the virulent diahorea! never mind. lol

"your hatred for muslims is so deep that your verbal diahorea knows no bounds, muslim women are not the only ones who get killed for adultery muslim men get killed for adultery too."

LMAO!!!!! Are you about the dumbest motherf**ker on earth or what?? You are trying to argue for Islam by pointing out that MEN and WOMEN alike are murdered for committing adultery? Yeah that makes it much better - so long as they are both subject to some absurd, archaic, psychotic treatment under Sharia law. . . You'd make a great defense lawyer someday - for the prosecution. IDIOT!!!

When a Muslim guy has sex with other women that his religion conveniently allows him to marry, that is not an insult to his first wife or adultery? This concept is intersting.
I'd like to know how many men are shot in the back of the head during the halftime of an Afgan soccer game for adultery. I'll bet that it has yet to happen.
Something tells me that Islam was created by males for the benefit of males.

If any Muslim man was ever, ever, ever executed for committing adultry, was a woman alowed to pull the trigger as he bent over in front of a halftime soccer crowd? God! Talk about barbaric! What kind of group of human beings could have committed such a barbaric act. What kind of god do Muslims believe they belong to?

BRAZILIANS: GET RID OF THESE PEOPLE AS FAST AS YOU CAN, BEFORE THEY INFECT YOUR CULTURE LIKE THE INSIDIOUS, EVIL DISEASED HUMANS THEY ARE!!!

Islam hates WOMEN, JEWS, GAYS, LESBIANS, NON-BELIEVERS . . . In short THEY HATE YOU!! You must accept Allah or be killed in their world. Two more people were beheaded yesterday as their religion calls for for all non-believers. Your family could be next . . . Your son or father could be next and you ladies, well you can only imagine what these cave dwelling savages will do to you!!

DO THE RIGHT THING BRAZIL - ELIMINATE THE MUSLIM MENACE BEFORE IT GETS ANY LARGER!! DO NOT BUY INTO THEIR SHAM LIE: "WE ARE PEACEFUL". ELIMINATE THEM NOW!!!!

yo..u know wwhat i dont get all this bulls**t talk about islam..but i just want to say one thing to all ya..ISLAM IS STILL THE FASTEST GROWING RELIGION IN THE WORLD..THAS RIGHT..

I am a Christian and my wife is Muslim
Written by Guest on 2006-06-19 15:50:35
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We never had religious problem and we live in peace. We have Koran and Bible inside home.

How much of a Christian and Moslem are you two? Aren't Christians and Moslems commanded to marry within their own religions? How do you live with having broken the tenates of your religions?
I say forget the differences and nonsense of your two religions and fall in love. Good luck to you both! I would even marry an American if I loved her.

There's no command for such a thing. The role religion thing is a myth. The only thing there is is spirituality.

The Christian have something called "being unequally yoked". The priests say that refers to being married to a non-Christian. I don't think it is a sin, or what it is called, but I think they tell you not to do it. Maybe a Christian can say more about it. It wouldn't stop me from marrying a good woman.

yes there is such a thing as being unequally yoked, life is an eternal learning. an authentic life never prevents one from learning. . .

Priests or spiritual leader will say to marry a christian but also definetely marry some one loves.

An unequally yoked is not what matters. If each other prize its partner it will be a great union for sure.

Why all this fuss about a book,we are not in the middle age or nazi times in German.Let people read,have their opinions---It is about time some Arab states be more democratic and some western countries,specially some people less arrogant.Let's think we have already way too many wars in the name of the ego---I AM RIGHT YOU ARE WRONG and by the way I believe this world cup will end soon with the forever winner B.....L

thanks for the only resanoble post on this subject...everyone else are bunch of psycho here

Muslims hate jews-women etc, that is really clever did you forget it was the christians who exterminated 6 miilions jews.

did you also forget that more european women are becoming muslims then men which totally shows the myth that islam is anti-women.

as you state the islamic menace should be wiped out in brazil, do you mean like the way native americans were wiped out, i suppose that is the ideal proof of christianties love for humanity.

hey yo lisen why you so worried..why you so afraid from the fact that islam is growing larger and larger ....Brazilians have minds they could think..they are not forced to read the koran..its their choice..some may feel satisfied with it ..AND YOU KNOW SOME WILL..THAT S WHAT YOUR AFRAID OF...THE FACT THAT ITS GROWING DAY AFTER DAY

DEATH TO ISLAM!! Nice to see you all giving each other the reach around. When one of these sick f**ks blows themselves up in an elementary school and kills your children, wife, etc . . . we'll see how great you think their religion is.

THINK CANADA. Spent their lives kissing muslim ass and look what they discovered - Muslims trying to kill Canadians. It will happen to you Brazil. Hopefully you whiny, bitch as Brazilian first:
"thanks for the only resanoble post on this subject...everyone else are bunch of psycho here"

We can only guess it was a reasonable post because of the lame reference to Brazilian football. Losers. Have fun being picked apart with car bombs . . .

Oh by the way, DEATH TO CHRISTIANS, JEWS AND OTHER RELIGIOUS IDIOTS - THAT MEANS MOST OF YOU HERE!!

How do you live together? Does she cover herseld in the house? What about the kids? What are they? Very interesting.

Be careful when you talk about Muslims and Hitler. Muslim enjoyed a special status in Hitler's SS! They were whole divisions comprised of only Muslims. Muslims enjoyed Hitler's point of view about the Jews and joined the German army. In the SS alone there were over 20,000 Muslims.

We live in a 'liberal'muslim country and there is no way women are equal in an Muslim Society. If my wife wants to learn to drive or open a bank account she has to get a letter giving her my permission. Many men do beat their wives. A friend of my wife's husband continually beats her, but in the way recommened in the Koran so it leaves no obvious marks. The concenus amongst her work colleagues is that she should put up with it as it is Allah's will. They routinely harass European women who they regards as semi-prostitues and fair game.

Its quite amusing to see people try so hard to slander others and try and get away from reality which is that 6 millions jews were killed by christians.

if you are going to remake history then lets point out the fact that jews have been exterminated in euroipe ever since the tenth century.

christians have a very long history of massacring jews and i suppose the inquisition in spain was carried out by muslims.

Yes! You are correct about the Christians being guilty of horrible crimes. What gets me is that Muslims think the're are always innocent.

I can beat my wife if I don't leave any marks? What do Moslims use that don't leave marks? What if she hits me back and leaves a mark? Do Muslim women ever hit back? If I ever hit my wife, I think she would kill me! Where I live many women carry handguns and aren't afraid to use them.

I don't think so; the thing is, I agree with you! But history is not always linear, and those of use who appreciate Islamic history, want the whole story, not just the gilded chapters. Quite frankly, I see the two religions having far more in common than not. But I am not the first to see that. Unfortuanately, I see the future, at least the most immediate, as rather bleak for everyone unless we all do a lot more studying and relating to each other.
Another thing that really bothers me is that Islamic scholars at one time were the most dependable, openminded, and trustworthy. It is time for them to return. The entire world needs their gift.

Alos once you get a sizable muslim population there they will develop 'greivances' and next thing you know they will be blowing people up.Last month, Muslim groups in Glasgow UK petitioned the City Council to ban
an Italian restaurant from serving alcohol to diners seated at outside
tables. Hospitals in Leicester considered banning Bibles from hospital
wards to avoid offending Muslim patients. In Birmingham, a group called
Muslims Against Advertising began a campaign of painting over
billboards that they deemed offensive to Islam - targeting ads for
Levi's jeans, perfume, and lingerie.

Maybe they are just trying to save you from yourselves.

"We live in a 'liberal'muslim country and there is no way women are equal in an Muslim Society. If my wife wants to learn to drive or open a bank account she has to get a letter giving her my permission. Many men do beat their wives. A friend of my wife's husband continually beats her, but in the way recommened in the Koran so it leaves no obvious marks. The concenus amongst her work colleagues is that she should put up with it as it is Allah's will. They routinely harass European women who they regards as semi-prostitues and fair game."

There you have it folks! This is the true nature of Islam - even the warm and fuzzy kind promoted around the world. Yes Christians (if you can even call Hitler, Hess, Goebels and Goering Christians) slaughtered Jews along with Muslims but Muslims have also slaughtered Christians and Jews. Now if we could only get them to slaughter one another exclusively and leave us "rational, moral and dogmatically unfettered" humans alone, I would be just fine with it.

The problem is these a*****es want to impose their wills on those of us who think Muhammed had a little too much wine or hashish before stumbling into that cave to "receive the message from the angel Gabriel" or that Jesus was another interesting MORTAL with a lot of charisma who just happened to make believers out of naive and weak-minded buffoons like you religious terds.

Please feel free to have street fights amongst yourselves a la West Side Story and I promise to bring the popcorn and beer, cheering you f**kheads on as you make the earth a better place one gruesome suicide bombing, beheading or M-16 shot at a time!! AMEN TO THAT!!

yes if a muslim commits a mistake righta way its blamed on the religion.. although when a christian, jew, and any other commits a mistake like rape, murder which is popular in western countries.. or timothy mcvay da guy with oklohoma city bombin..hiroshima nuclear bomb by US...iraqis gettin killed and raped in prison by american soldiers..israeli killin palestinians and western news networks not give a damn about what happens to the plestinian side only when a plaestinian does s**t its seen in every damn newspaper..america protectin israel with weapons and all that why dont they take israelis close to them to protect them even more instead of puttin them across seas..or what happened to black people being slaved in America and south africa by whites..this is alll forgotten...read history closely..i suggest to all ya lisen to this rapper IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE ..he'll refresh ur minds all ya..

i suggest to all ya lisen to this rapper IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE ..he'll refresh ur minds all ya..

HA HA HA HA - Gawd, we're in trouble.

Hitler did not kill Muslims. I would like to when if he did. But Muslims aided in him in Russia and the Balkans. But big deal! There was a reason for it. But when did Muslims ever massacre Jews and Christians?

"But when did Muslims ever massacre Jews and Christians"?

You are obviously too f**king ignorant to carry on with . . . Good luck to you.

Recently, just as an example, Muslims slaughtered Christians in Serbia. Muslims are slaughtering Christians in Africa RIGHT NOW! BTW, Iran wants Jews and Christians to wear badges to identify them - sound familiar?? Jews were slaughtered in Spain, Morocco, and Algeria by Muslims as well.

Yeah y'all - read history closely like I do, er, just listen to IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE!!! LMAO!!

yo..hey lisn..thnx for mentionin that serbia thing ..somethin i need to add to my list ..u probably forgot the genocide serbia did in kosovo ...thas how it all started the christian muslim thing..america on muslims side first time attaked the serbs..ur just tryin to make it look as if theres war between muslims and christians...i live in a christian country and tha area i live in is immigrants basically..nuthin about christian jew muslim..and i suggest u do lisn to IMMORTAL TECHNIQUE ..u really neeed to learn some history ..history that aint only dependin on western views..

Quote:

"Its quite amusing to see people try so hard to slander others and try and get away from reality which is that 6 millions jews were killed by christians.

if you are going to remake history then lets point out the fact that jews have been exterminated in euroipe ever since the tenth century.

christians have a very long history of massacring jews and i suppose the inquisition in spain was carried out by muslims."


Reply:

You are correct that Jews have suffered a long time in both Protestant and Catholic countries. But I think - especially in certain Catholic kingdoms - it was more akin to how modern day Israelis treat and segregate Palestinians, than an actual systematic extermination of Jews.

And actually, there were Jews flourished in places like Protestant Holland where thay often fled to from bigoted Catholic nations. But yet even still eventualy, sometime after the Revolution conquered France, Jews came to France and prospered dramatically. And eventually Jews grew rich throughout Western Europe. That is why the Western European Jews that migrated to the United States came with money to fix them into the middle class or upper classes of society, in contrast to the Eastern European Jews who migrated to the United States, they came as paupers. Hence Eastern European Jews in the U.S. first lived in the ghettos and built relations with the Italian gangsters, these were the Jews to that entered the sport of professional boxing in the United States.

Many non Jews were killed in the Holocuast too, though it is not often mentioned. In fact there is evidence to suspect the Germans learned about using genocide as a weapon from how the Turks handled the Armenians, because there were German military personal present over in Turkey at the time who recounted the tails to the West and made photographs.

But more importantly, I really think Christians (Protestants vs Catholics) slaughtered one another more in Europe than either one set about slaughtering the Jews.

And the Jews have not been sole victims throughout history. They - the conversos - did predominately run the Trans Atlantic Slave trade. They are also the ones with their boots presently on the necks of the Palestinians. Every people has their crimes and glories.

Quote
By Michael Gormley
Associated Press writer

Albany, N.Y. (AP) - Formal complaints of corporal punishment in New York c lassrooms more than DOUBLED OVER THE PAST FIVE YEARS, with 4,223 accusations reported in 2004, according to records obtained by the Associated Press.
At the same time , fewer school districts were filling the required semiannual reports detailing corporal punishment allegations, the records show.
Many of the allegations involved faculty or staff pushing, slapping and grabbing student´s arms. Among those verified were an incident in which a teacher put a misbehaving student outside to cool off in December without a jacket, a teacher who tackled a student who reached for a pencil on the floor, and several cases of students mouths staped shut.
The state Education Department reviewed the records after they were requested by the AP and said it would recommend revising the reporting policy.
New York Daily News
Unquote
I wonder how many incidents were not reported. Can you help?

Do you think I can get a koram at the Amazon?

Is that a slum?
Is that a penitenciary?
Wow. Is that a ranch in Texas?
Is that a Casino in Las Vegas?
Do they carry the handgun under their skirts?
Does anybody in your family carry a handgun under her skirt?
What do they carry a handgun for?
Is that just a hobby?
Is that christian?
Do they put the handun under the pillow when they go to bed?
When I was nine years old I fancied carrying a handgun around.
Are you nine years old? I mean are you still nine years old?
Wow. What a crack!

It runs in our family.

Someone tried to answer that one for me. No, we don't live in Texas, although that would be nice! But as a nurse on the night shift in an emergency room in a large city, I think she saw far too many battered women, AND WORSE, and came to the realization that with the quality of the average male populating the world, she had no chance in an evil encounter, especially at barely five feet and 100 pounds.
When the local sheriff and police started to advertise for weapon classes and concealed permits, she enrolled and has carried her 9MM for over 20 years, I pray that she never has to use it and praise our local law enforcement and elected officals for recognizing the need to empower women.
By the way, assaults against women have gone down in our locality.
Are you one of the new gentlemen who believes that women should not be seen or heard and that it is okay to beat them if you leave no marks?
Was the word you were trying to spell, "penitentiary"? Have a good life.

The Jews did not run or originate the slave trade, it was the Arabs. The Arab Slave Trade began in the 7th century AD as Arabs and other Asians poured into Northern and Eastern Africa under the banner of Islam, either converting or subjugating the African societies they came upon. Many Europeans were also enslaved. See 'White Gold' by Giles Milton, available from Amazon.

Please have the decency to check the facts the arabs did not originate slavery the romans were very adapt at slavery.

the population of rome consisted of roman and 3 slaves, have you ever heard of spartacus and the slave rebellion or is your hatred for arabs and muslims making you blind to reality.

if anything the arabs started the road to end slavery as in their culture to free a slave is a great deed and to enslave a person is the height of kufr ir disbeleif.

"These countries are assimilating a democratic culture more than the leaders desire."

Yes, they are becoming "bad Muslims" - that is not the same as Islam becoming democratic. Islam demands a theocracy! There can be no human law above the law of Allah.

"I have not converted or accepted that faith, but I side with Islam moved by their collective bravery, and *consitency*, and most especially her women perfumed in fidelity."

Wow, you sound very enamorada with Muslim women... maybe you should find one you like and marry her

OH WAIT, you CAN'T! It's against Islam for a Muslim woman to marry a non-Muslim man

If you can't recognize anything SINISTER about that, do you at least find it unfair?

"If you’re frustrated go on and masturbate. Don’t beat your women. The world will be a better place to live if everyone had great sex, masturbated regularly, and paid no attention to religion."

BLESS YOU! There is one other sane person out there not caught up in this sadomasochistic religious obsession over sex. Sex is natural just look at any animal... as long as both people want it and are happy it is a beautiful thing to do and then get on with life! Get over your obsession people life is beautiful there's no need to condemn people for "immoral sex" that don't even affect you. There are 1000 more important things like treating people well that is the true measure of your morality.

"the average western christian will have sex with 30 to 40 diffrent people in their life time, 95 per cent of all muslims have one wife"

are we supposed to be ashamed for having sex with many people? I am glad I slept with who I have because I wanted to, and I don't regret anything. so take your preaching somewhere else.

"There have been instances in Muslim states where women are beaten because “she allowed herself to be raped”

Yes and if she tries to testify in court against the man who raped her IT DOESN'T COUNT because she is worth 1/4 the value of a man under the law! She has to have several witnesses who saw the rape or they will not convict the rapist! Guess how many rapes have 4 witnesses?

The Brazilian football team aren't islamists, for heaven's sake. Infact, they are infidels. May Allah's curse be upon them

"if anything the arabs started the road to end slavery as in their culture to free a slave is a great deed and to enslave a person is the height of kufr ir disbeleif."

and that's why they treat women as sex-slaves

Will Brazil lose because they don't believe in Allah or mohammed?

"I am a Christian and my wife is a Moslem"

Your wife must not be a Muslim or she would know that the Quran absolutely forbids such a marriage:

And give not (your daughters) in marriage to an unbeliever till they believe in Allah alone and verily a believing slave is better than a (free) unbeliever , even though he pleases you....[Surah 2:221]

COME ON people, stop talking s**t about things you know nothing about... go get yourself one of these free Korans and READ IT. You will be educated, you will be appalled, and you will never again believe the lies they tell you about Islam being a "religion of peace" and equality.

"Will Brazil lose because they don't believe in Allah or mohammed?"

TODAY: SPAIN VS. SAUDI ARABIA

WATCH SPAIN EJECT THE ARABS FROM EUROPEAN SOIL!!! HISTORY REPEATS!

VIVA LA RECONQUISTA!

VIVA ESPAÑA!

Bull s**t. That´s prejudice. Maybe you have a dark complexion , but doesn´t even know where it comes from.
As to football, wait and see. It is too early. Very soon the Spanish team will be going back home. Wait and see.
------------------------------------
About the koran, the Amazon site is announcing:

The Koran (Penguin Classics)
US$7.88 or US#8.47

The Qurán Translation = US5.95

The Koran for Dummies US$14.29

----------------------------------
So easy. Don´t worry.In a democratic country like america you can read whatever you want. The Koran is one of the most import literary works and you deserve reading it.

american whorehouses also treat women as sex slaves. Check out about teenagers who are sex slaves in america.
There are thousands of them. No kidding.

Ukraine did that to Arabia

4-0

The american penitentiaries all crowded (2 million convicts) with rapists. Did they rape the american women with their consent? Did they respect them. How about the non-reported cases? How many were they? The National Geographic Channel has a film on a California penitentiary. Watch it and see what a hell that is. Hell is less hellish than that.

"bull s**t. That´s prejudice. Maybe you have a dark complexion , but doesn´t even know where it comes from"

go back to scum

As to football, wait and see. It is too early. Very soon the Spanish team will be going back home. Wait and see.


not before the muslims who don't know any sport

american whorehouses also treat women as sex slaves. Check out about teenagers who are sex slaves in america.
There are thousands of them. No kidding.

There's a difference.

It's allah's will to treat women as sex-slaves. Mohammed ordererd women to get beaten if they don't obey and they should remian silent.

You see you are comparing muslim women to brothels. Pathetic

Perhaps there are so many rapists in American jails and prisons because it is a crime to rape a woman in America.

I am not a Muslims, but I am very interested in them. I will have to go buy a Quran. But I am curious now. What rights do Muslim women have? Are they allowed to own property seprate from their husbands? Are they allowed the right to travel? Can they divorce their husbands in a civil court? Can they vote and run for office? Can they have careers?

Oh that’s right he doesn’t have to. Billions masturbate to his teachings several times a day. What an ego trip this guy must have. And the promise of all those virgins upon death. Do the males of Islam deserve this treatment? No! And you can’t help but feel sorry for the virgins, their first and last time, and you just know the women did not enjoy it.

Religion is for sheep. Do you f**k sheep? I know I don’t. I’d rather masturbate for my own pleasure than compromise my standards. And rape is out of the question. I’m not that full of love that I have to force it on someone.

You and everyone else have every right!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What right does anyone or any religion have to say a person can and can not do? If you want to own property, travel freely, divorce, vote, run for office, and/or have a career, go ahead and do so. No one has the right to tell you otherwise! If you’re looking to feel spiritual and closer to a higher being. Try Tantric sex or a form of Tantric masturbation. Yes! You too can do what some say only the gods can do. It’s the greatest high you will ever know. You can do all the drugs and alcohol you want, but you will never come close to a Tantric high!

Nothing is more spiritual than knowing your own body!!!

Quote:

"The Jews did not run or originate the slave trade, it was the Arabs. The Arab Slave Trade began in the 7th century AD as Arabs and other Asians poured into Northern and Eastern Africa under the banner of Islam, either converting or subjugating the African societies they came upon. Many Europeans were also enslaved. See 'White Gold' by Giles Milton, available from Amazon."


Reply:

My major source concerning the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade comes from author and well respected historian, Hugh Thomas. According to him he said it is true that the Trans Atlantic Slave Trade was run predominately by the Jewish "converso." Besides Hugh Thomas I have read some smaller essay works on slavery, but admittedly I'm not the most well read on the subject.

As for Arab slave traders, it is true they were involved in large scale black slave trading long before the Europeans began their business in transfering black slaves across the Atlantic. But the same is true of the black African kingdoms themselves. At the end of the day however, I guess we can say with some fairness, that black African kingdoms and Arab Sub Saharan Slave Trade were both longer embroiled in the trade of black slaves and also ended up enslaving more black Africans and trading them than the Euro run Trans Atlantic trade. I've read the Sub Saharan Trade alone was larger than the Trans Atlantic Trade (but maybe that's just because it operated longer; and perhaps in short term the Trans Atlantic actually moved many more black slaves).

You are also correct that white slaves, existed, in fact I have heard the word "slave" comes from the word "Slav." It is fact that Slavic peoples, mainly made Eunichs, were highly prized amongst Arab slave traders and slave owners, and a lot of Slavic people consequently became slaves. The Moors also sent a lot of European Spanishs into slavery when they conquered the much of the Iberian peninnsula. Some of the Arab slave masters could be quite cruel too, in the case where one Arab caught a run away European slave of his, tied him up, and either dragged him by hand or horse (I can't remember which) till his face became deformed. A message of course to all other slaves of his.

But slavery existed all over the globe - or at least much of it - until by the deliberation of Europeans (mainly Christians) and their powerful military, they began to slowly enforce a "no slavery" policy across the spheres of the waters and lands they controlled. It didn't happen over night of course. However to my knowledge no black African nation or Arab nation can claim a William Wilberforce. Till that European dilberation however, most the global for most or all human history was embroiled in slavery, from Asia to the pre columbian Americas. Even before ancient Egypt or Rome (both of which had a large slave population), even the famed "democracy" of Greece (Athens) was never a real democracy as the large slave population was not allowed to take part in the democratic process. -- Slavery probably started in small aspects, in the times before "civilization," when man still was formed into hunter gatherer communities, but more for protection or rather failure to be able to protect oneself. But due to less immediate access to food, it was perhaps rather small and not a larger institution.

"Slavery" is an elusive word. Because its institutional practices has varied. In ancient Rome as well as in ethnic Portugese dominated and run Brazil, slaves (black or other) often collected monetary income, and could eventually purchase their freedom (in the case of Brazil: if they lived that long). In Rome of course slaves could be sent to fight in the gladitorial events, paradoxically as "property" and low social class yet at the sametime given the fane of "stars" like our sports stars today, if they were good enough as gladiators. From parts of pre-Euro Africa to parts of pre-columbian America, slaves could be ritualistically sacrificed.

When one looks at how the white men, women, and children were treated in the factories of the United States in the mid to late 1800's in contrast to the black soldier slaves that were employed by the Spanish to take down Amerindian Peru, what exactly is a "slave" becomes very elusive.

China was steeped in slavery, and prefered the Eunich form of slavery, or at least prized it above other forms in the presence of royalty. The city of Tokoyo I believe was literally built ontop of the dead bodies of Asian slaves (concrete paved over them). In contrast to Athens, China, and the United States - Thailand was once called Muang Thai, meraning "Land of the Free," because unlike the Khmer region, Thailand did not have slavery. Actually I believe "Thai" means "free person." (but I'm not completely sure)

thanks for the only resanoble post on this subject...everyone else are bunch of psycho here"

We can only guess it was a reasonable post because of the lame reference to Brazilian football. Losers. Have fun being picked apart with car bombs . .

Actually I was referring to his comment about people reading the Koran and furnishing their own opinion, but I guess that doesn’t suit your agenda, you f**kin retard ...you don't have to be religious to be fanatic and you are the example,,,,f**kin moron

Hitler inspiration was Luther (the founding father of the reform church, Protestantism)
Read some Luther thoughts .

Samples of Anti-Jewish Tirades in Martin Luther’s Works
Martin Luther’s pamphlet of 1543, "On the Jews and Their Lies," sets forth his venom for Jews and his adoration of love and faith in Christ. Selections from this pamphlet suggest the passion Luther expressed:

Image: Title page of the most virulent of Martin Luther's antisemitic pamphlets, "On The Jews and Their Lies." . . .In truth, the Jews, being foreigners, should possess nothing, and what they do possess should be ours. For they do not work, and we do not give them presents. Nonetheless, they keep our money and our goods and have become our masters in our own country and in their Dispersion. When a thief steals ten guldens, he is hanged; but when a Jew steals ten barrels of gold through his usury, he is prouder than the Lord himself! He boasts of it and strengthens his faith and his hatred of us, and thinks: ‘See how the Lord does not abandon His people in the Dispersion. We do not work, we are idle, and we pass the time pleasantly; the cursed goyim must work for us, and we have their money: thus we are their lords and they our servants!’
To this day we still do not know what devil brought them into our country; surely we did not go to seek them out in Jerusalem!
No one wants them. The countryside and the roads are open to them; they may return to their country when they wish; we shall gladly give them presents to get rid of them, for they are a heavy burden on us, a scourge, a pestilence and misfortune for our country. This is proved by the fact they they have often been expelled by force: from France (which they call Tsarpath), where they had a downy nest; recently from Spain, (which they call Sepharad), their chosen roost; and even this year from Bohemia, where, in Prague, they had another cherished nest; finally, in my own lifetime, from Ratisbon [Regensburg], Madgeburg, and from many other places. . . .
Luther also proposed some concrete measures for dealing with Jews:

Image: Jews being burned in 1493.

. . .In the first place, their synagogues should be burned down and what does not burn must be covered with mud. This must be done for the honor of God and Christianity, so that God may see that we are Christians and we have not simply tolerated or approved that His Son and His Christians have been subjected to lies, curses, and slander.
In the second place, their houses should be pulled down and destroyed. They must be housed in stables like gypsies, so that they realize they are not masters in our country, as they proudly say, but unfortunate prisoners, so they will complain to God continuously.
Third, their books should be taken from them. Fourth, rabbis should be forbidden to give any more lessons on pain of death. Fifth, they should not be allowed to move around freely. Let them stay home. Sixth, they should no longer be allowed to charge interest. The money that is taken from them should be spent to help Jews who agree to be baptized. Seventh, they should be put to work.
Painting: Book burning by the Catholic Church was common. The painting on the left depicts Saint Dominic conducting a book burning in 1207, in Albi, France, when the Saint proves to the heretics that their books containing heretic ideas do not pass the trial by fire while the Catholic books fly up from the bonfire undamaged. St. Dominic and the Albigenses, was created by Pedro Berruguete in 1480 and is now owned by the Prado Museum in Madrid.
A few months after the pamphlet, "On the Jews and Their Lies," Luther wrote another scurrilous attack on Jews, entitled, "Schem Hamephoras," where he explicitly equates Jews with the Devil.

The people that post here are much appreciated! Muslim, Christian, whatever. You make my friends and I think, do research, and argue a lot! Thanks!

Priests or spiritual leader will say to marry a christian but also definetely marry some one loves.

If someone asks me if I could ask anything anything to be happy what would I ask? Someone who understands me, forgives me, appreciates me and teaches me when I need to learn.

Well, I for one am all for a bit of crusading. I say let's take back Jerusalem for we Christians. As for Islam in Brazil, be very careful NOT to let these murdering bastards into your land, and don't let them promote their faith.Of course, when the bombings start here, as they certainly will if you don't nip this s**t in the bud, it will be interesting to see what the other 180-odd million enraged Brazilians do to the muslem fanatics that planted the explosives etc.

It's only a matter of time! Brasil would make a tempting target. Brazilians have little pride and envision a poor future for themselves. I can't believe that the process hasn't already started.
Just today the Americans found another group of terrorists in Florida? Provong again that not all Muslims are terrorists, but almost all terrorists are Muslim.
Wasn't Brazil a huge provider of arms to Irag? No wonder the Saudis see Brazil as ripe for the taking.
I wonder how much of the armaments Brazil is selling to Chavez will somehow be used aginst it eventually, probably in some backwards way, but I think Chavez has outsmarted Lula.

Brazil doesn't have a clue what is happening concerning it and the global picture. It is like a puppy dog when Chavez calls and then whips it. The Muslims will be no different.

ask - ask for
ask - ask for

correction: ask =meaning ask for
ask = ask for

"The people that post here are much appreciated! Muslim, Christian, whatever. You make my friends and I think, do research, and argue a lot! Thanks!"

Hey you, I agree and appreciate it too.

first of al..lookin at most of ya here none of u know anythin.. all you know is sayin f***ck and sex....ignorant go read urselves and learn instead of dependin on the usuall western views toward all non western pple and i mean all NOT JUST MUSLIMS..alot of you aint got respect ...im sure if u get a muslim and ask them to swear like many of u did about muhammad and allah..ask a muslim to swear about jesus and moses ..they wouldnt ..muslims respect jesus probably more than many christians..plus talkin about muslims beatin women..its nut like u people are makin urselves not familiar with women bein beatin..in western countries its worse..they rape a 6 year old..and nut give a damn..their families are always separated..u barely seee a family with a mom, dad, and children..

Yes, but its against the law when a Christian and any other religion does it. Its only the Muslims that somehow endorse such barbaric thinking.

"first of al..lookin at most of ya here none of u know anythin.. all you know is sayin f***ck and sex....ignorant go read urselves and learn instead of dependin on the usuall western views toward all non western pple and i mean all NOT JUST MUSLIMS..alot of you aint got respect ...im sure if u get a muslim and ask them to swear like many of u did about muhammad and allah..ask a muslim to swear about jesus and moses ..they wouldnt ."

OK boy wonder - tell us what you know about Islam and Christianity!! I did catch this sentence from the f**king smart ass know it all though

"im sure if u get a muslim and ask them to swear like many of u did about muhammad and allah..ask a muslim to swear about jesus and moses ..they wouldnt ."

You sure about that?? Are you really? Have you asked as much? Now come on Homey!! Kick some gangster knowledge for us . . .

"Yes, but its against the law when a Christian and any other religion does it. Its only the Muslims that somehow endorse such barbaric thinking."..
first of al..wat do ya know about other religions ..wat do ya know about religions like sikhism..budhism..nutin..so its against da law..not religion..yo lisn in most areas people beat der children to raise them..u cant nutin to chnage that..it aint worth ..change ur self beter than tryin to a change a whol nation...
"You sure about that?? Are you really? Have you asked as much? Now come on Homey!! Kick some gangster knowledge for us . . . " remember that denmark cartoon about muhamaad..muslims culdve done the same about jesus..right..by da way ima too gud for bein ur hommie

u added the part "any other religion"..i bet anythin u know nuthin about any other religion but ur tryin ur best to exclude islam..but make it look worse than any othr religion ..thas nice try

"remember that denmark cartoon about muhamaad..muslims culdve done the same about jesus..right..by da way ima too gud for bein ur hommie"

(Couldn't hold my silence any longer with dips**ts like this postong)

Hey DJ Dumbass, they actually held a Holocaust cartoon contest in Iran shortly afterwards, you forget about that or do you not get a chance to catch the news while working at McDonald's? Now put your foot in your retarded, wannabe gangsta mouth

I am having a difficult time understanding the "gangsta rap?" if that is what it is, but where I live, wife beating is still illegal no matter what religion endorses it, and if there is another religion out there as barbaric toward women as the Muslims, please inform me, I'd like as much info on the cruel religions as I can get. Thanks.

"Just today the Americans found another group of terrorists in Florida? Provong again that not all Muslims are terrorists, but almost all terrorists are Muslim."
you f**kin ignorant idiot get your facts straight before you post here,,,THEY ARE NOT MUSLIMS THEY ARE BLACK CHRISTANS you dumb f**k

"That´s prejudice. Maybe you have a dark complexion , but doesn´t even know where it comes from."

I know I have some Arab blood in me... that's fine... I'm glad the Arabs were thrown out of Spain because they were imposing their barbaric religion that is totally against Spanish culture. If they migrated peacefully and adopted Spanish culture there would be no problem! But they tried to force Islam on us!

I don't care what skin color people have they are Spanish if they know the culture and we will fight to the death anyone who tries to conquer and impose their Islamic religion on us! We did it once and we'll do it again.

VIVA ESPAÑA!

Hi, I have recently been studying Islam in Latin America and particulary in Brazil. Brazil is an open minded tolerant society, why not leave it that way?. Some of you have been writting crap, some of you clearly have been affected by the media. Why not stop blindly follow the media and find out your selves? Islam is a peaceful relgion. The people who blow them selves up, who kill others, are not peaceful, therfore they are not muslims. There is no such thing as an Islamic Terrorist because you cannot be Muslim and Terrorist at the same time. Islam erases all aspects fo race and culture and tradition, its all about acting as one and finding inner peace. And until you undertstand this, Islam will be the religion that is attacked by ignorant people. Open your eyes people. If you would like to talk to me about this, or ask me anything my email address is mittow@hotmail.com. Also if you can speak both emglish and brazilian portuguese please contact me. Thank you for your time, May God bless you all and Grant you all a place in Heaven
HASubhi

You can call the gang arrested in Florida anything you want to, but the press and the police are calling them Muslims!!!

Okay, maybe the Florida terrorists are not Muslims. But can't you understand that when the press talks about the killing of innocents and the destruction of huge buildings without any reason that the public immedieately things "Muslim"? It might be very unfair, but who has ever heard of a peaceful Muslim?

"Islam is a peaceful relgion. The people who blow them selves up, who kill others, are not peaceful, therfore they are not muslims. There is no such thing as an Islamic Terrorist because you cannot be Muslim and Terrorist at the same time. Islam erases all aspects fo race and culture and tradition, its all about acting as one and finding inner peace. And until you undertstand this, Islam will be the religion that is attacked by ignorant people. Open your eyes people. If you would like to talk to me about this, or ask me anything my email address is mittow@hotmail.com. Also if you can speak both emglish and brazilian portuguese please contact me. Thank you for your time, May God bless you all and Grant you all a place in Heaven
HASubhi."

Gotta stop you right there Imam. Islam is no more a peaceful religion than Christianity or Judaism. I am so f**king sick to death of hearing "good, moderate" Muslims say these terrorists aren't Muslims when we know goddam good and well that these same "moderate" Muslims aid, abet and morally support these people - YOU KNOW IT AND I KNOW IT SO LET"S CUT THE CRAP SHALL WE!!

So all those Muslims around the world who jumped for joy when the towers collapsed killing thousands aren't considered Muslims amongst themselves and the Islamic community? God that is a crock of s**t! They are not Muslims either I suppose. If we took the number of Muslims who felt some elation and joy at seeing thousands of Americans die and subtracted it from the total amount of Muslisms in the world, that would leave a truly SMALL NUMBER of "moderate" Muslims! YOU KNOW IT AND I KNOW IT!

Why don't you select the passages from the Koran that call for the subjugation and destruction of Infidels and print them here. I will inform everyone how many radical sects ADHERE TO THE STRICTEST WORDING OF THE KORAN throughout the world and the readers can decide for themselves. Stop trying to convince people that Islam is all about peace. The Koran is not about peace and Muhammed was most certainly not about peace. The foundation of Islam was based on the butchery of bedouin tribes throughout the Arabian Peninsula shortly after 622. Granted many of the early wars against the Makka were defensive in nature but they later turned offensive and aggresive. Many still refused to follow Muhammed and as a result were slaughtered for it. Has Islam changed all that much? Not really! I will match your religious fanaticism with historical fact.

Furthermore, the men arrested in Florida taught a hybrid religion that mixed Christianity and ISLAM. It could be said that they were Muslims.

Its is quite apparent that some of the writers on this issue are either brainwashed or pathologocal islam haters.

lets clarify one point islam is a religion of peace which belives in living life according to gods commandents, but there are some writers who are constantly propagating lies on these pages.

the facts are israel has occupied palestine since 1947 and has been massacring and mentally torturing palestinians in their own homeland for the last sixty years, they have the right to fight back by all means and those who dont like this should tell the israelis to free them from bondage.

it is the american christians and their lackey christian nations who are occupying and massacring hundreds of thousands iraqi and afghani muslims, blowing them apart-shooting dead litte babies then claiming they shot at us, the true face of christianity is unveiled in iraq and afghanistan.

please tell me one muslim army that is currently invading and occupying a christian nation in europe or americas.

it seems a lot of people are so brainwashed that they do not think before they write lies on these pages.

if you want to see christian extermination and genocide against humanity just look at the americas and see how many native american indians there are today compared to invading occupiers and read the history of christian slaughter, these people were slaughtered in the name of christianity they were told to submit or die as they were classified as heathens-pagans-savages and only the word of god could save them.

people in glass houses should not through stones for everyone muslim glass house there are a hundred christian glass houses.

"Hey DJ Dumbass, they actually held a Holocaust cartoon contest in Iran shortly afterwards, you forget about that or do you not get a chance to catch the news while working at McDonald's? Now put your foot in your retarded, wannabe gangsta mouth"
lisn..theres no need for u to swear and use such language when discussin wit others allright..u know i culdve swore evrytime u swore..have some respect or is that your way of provin ur talk...the holocaust was an event or is it a religion or a prophet and i neva knew that ..pay close attention to wat i said ..i said they wouldnt and they didnt do the same to the prophets like jesus and moses.
"I am having a difficult time understanding the "gangsta rap?" if that is what it is, but where I live, wife beating is still illegal no matter what religion endorses it, and if there is another religion out there as barbaric toward women as the Muslims, please inform me, I'd like as much info on the cruel religions as I can get. Thanks."
im not goin to com and explain to u evry religion ..instead of wastin ur time right here go read urself and learn..since ur ignorant and refuse to believe it..and alse since ur havin a hard time understandin wat im sayin...
"I don't care what skin color people have they are Spanish if they know the culture and we will fight to the death anyone who tries to conquer and impose their Islamic religion on us! We did it once and we'll do it again. "...ok spanish u said u would fight to death for ur country..why is it when the people of the COUNTRIES that are occupied naw blamed and called insurgents when they fight for der country....
"Why don't you select the passages from the Koran that call for the subjugation and destruction of Infidels and print them here. I will inform everyone how many radical sects ADHERE TO THE STRICTEST WORDING OF THE KORAN throughout the world and the readers can decide for themselves. Stop trying to convince people that Islam is all about peace. The Koran is not about peace and Muhammed was most certainly not about peace. The foundation of Islam was based on the butchery of bedouin tribes throughout the Arabian Peninsula shortly after 622. Granted many of the early wars against the Makka were defensive in nature but they later turned offensive and aggresive. Many still refused to follow Muhammed and as a result were slaughtered for it. Has Islam changed all that much? Not really! I will match your religious fanaticism with historical fact. ".....yo why dont u go ahead and put dose passages muslims no need to convince you or ur people that their religion is peaceful..dont worry they dont need ya ...thos beduin arabs ur makin fun i dont know man but surly they made their religion da fastest growin religion out ther...

one would think that at least you "niggas" could WRITE f**king correctly!

And you wonder why n****rs got a bad name....

Now don't get all angry on me now and excited, if you jump up and down too much you'll chip your other front tooth with your mercedes emblem necklace....

a'ight??

Quote:

"you f**kin ignorant idiot get your facts straight before you post here,,,THEY ARE NOT MUSLIMS THEY ARE BLACK CHRISTANS you dumb f**k"


Reply:

They are not Christian. But neither are they orthodox Muslim. The eader of the group was raised by a Baptist pastor father, and his father senthim to Catholic school. He was raised in a family of strong work ethic, he became involved in martial arts and eventually joined the Guarding Angels.

Though, after time and events that helped change him, he one day informed his father he was converting to *Islam.*

But the group he was associated with as I understand it, was the Morrish Science Temple, which has a popularity amongst a small but significant numbers of Black Americans in urban central city areas. From what I have read - I don't know how accurate it is - but "Morrish Science" blends eleents of Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. But from my own conversation with a member of the Black P Stone nation, and orginization that seems to have incorporated "Morrish Science" into their orginzational belief structure, they presume themselves to be more Islamic than anything else.

Quote:

"I know I have some Arab blood in me... that's fine... I'm glad the Arabs were thrown out of Spain because they were imposing their barbaric religion that is totally against Spanish culture. If they migrated peacefully and adopted Spanish culture there would be no problem! But they tried to force Islam on us!"


Reply:

It is true Islam conquered much of the Iberian pennisula through the force of arms and disciplined troops.

But it also equally true that Islam conquered much of that pennisula by spreading wherein the Catholics freely converted. It was by-in-large and easy affair Islam had in conquering and spreading Islam. It is less than accurate to picture it as though Islam forced the majority of that pennisula to convert under the immediate threat of the sword.

Islam arrived in the Spanish region, and spread so quickly and fruitfully, largely because it was a time when Catholicism could no longer effectively deal with the social ills of its time. And Catholics were embroiled in war with each other, not to mention the pains of poverty was unbearable for a large portion of Catholic Spaniards at the time. Complicated theology does not put food in the stomach of a starving person no less an illiterate and uneducated one such grand ponderings and pontiffications mean little to.

Islam brought unity, clarity, simplicity (theologically), effectiveness to deal with social ills, and it also brought tax relief at a time when many Spanish were overburden with high taxes.


Roll ahead to more modern times. Islam is once again arriving in the West at a time when Christianity (Protestantism & Catholicism) can no longer effectively deal with the social ills of its time. Not just that but Secularism has proven ineffective to relieve society of its social ills. Many people are taxed to hell and secularism glamorizes mafias, cartels, and infamous gangs like the Crips and Bloods. In contrast to Islam which sees itself as an Alpha Male protector of the weak and most vunerable. -- So it should be no surprise Islam is spreading so rapidly through Europe and the United States (especially amongst Black Americans - and criminally reformed Black Americans).